A Guide to Bipolar, Dipolar, & Direct-Radiating Monopole Surround Speakers (PART II)

[rana_kirti]

Hi Bigdaddy,

m getting a pair of PSB S5s. But i have a curious situation with my wall on the left side.

I sit at 15 feet from the screen. Right at 15 feet the side wall dips 8 inches and then carries on straight to the kitchen. So i had a few doubts. I gather from this thread that the Bipoles should be 1 feet behind the listener. That will be 16 ft.

Now from the PSB website the Depth of the S5 is 7 1/8”. So i can guess from the pictures the tweeter/woofer will be outwards from the wall by 5-6 inches.

My doubts are...

1. Will the right side of the tweeter/woofer be firing directly into the side wall dip and thus create a weird effect ?

2. Am i better off with a Monopole speakers for surrounds in my case ?

Thanks for looking.

Rana

P.S i'm attaching a few pics for a better understanding of the situation.

[rana_kirti]

bump... BD... busy...?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by rana_kirti

bump... BD... busy...?

In a small home theater room, you are always better off with bipole surround speakers as opposed to monopole surround speakers.

The bipole speakers, fire sound in two directions and the waves zig zag and bounce around the room to create a diffuse surround effect. You should be ok with bipole speakers.

Also, home theater is not an exact science. Most of the rules are actually guidelines. Some deviation from the guideleines will not make any difference.

[rana_kirti]

Merci beaucoup.... monsieur

[cockatiel]

Hi Bigdaddy,

I thank you so much for all the information you provided. In fact I couldn't stop reading! There are lots of questions I would have asked around, that were answered there. So, thanks a lot!

All I've read seems to point to bipoles/dipoles for my specific case. Still, to confirm... I have a small room (10 feet from TV to back wall), the sofa is right against the back wall, and I have absolutely no wall on the left side (the dining room is there -- there's a right wall with windows though). I have only about 2 feet on each side of the couch. Still recommending dipoles? The fact that they would basically be radiating directly into the back wall, and the absence of left wall, is what leaves me wondering.

Whether or not you can afford the time to answer this, I thank you a lot for you work. Really appreciated.

Cockatiel

[jsr]

Dipoles are normally placed on the side walls so that you're sitting in the null area.

I have a similar setup as you, no wall on one side, wall on the other side and couch against the back wall. I have BIpoles on the rear wall, about 2-2.5ft above ear level. You typically want Bipoles in this situation. You can use Dipoles if you hang the speaker from the ceiling on the side that has no wall, but I didn't feel like smashing my head against a speaker several times a week (I'm clumsy and get hurt enough from my son's toys).

[LQQK]

I have an old set of speakers in storage, I'm giving them to a family member and would like an opinion or two on placement.

They are Rocket/Onix, 4 - 0.5s (Monopole), 2 - ELT-DPA (Dipole) & ELT-CSE (Center)

Unfortunately, the only place for these speakers (orders from my son's BOSS/WIFE) is about 8' feet up on the walls-->!!!!

My guess is, put 0.5s on the sides with Dipoles on the rear wall??? OR,,would it be better to put Dipoles on the sides and 0.5s on the rear?

LQQK

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by LQQK

I have an old set of speakers in storage, I'm giving them to a family member and would like an opinion or two on placement.

They are Rocket/Onix, 4 - 0.5s (Monopole), 2 - ELT-DPA (Dipole) & ELT-CSE (Center)

Unfortunately, the only place for these speakers (orders from my son's BOSS/WIFE) is about 8' feet up on the walls-->!!!!

My guess is, put 0.5s on the sides with Dipoles on the rear wall??? OR,,would it be better to put Dipoles on the sides and 0.5s on the rear?

LQQK

Put the dipoles on the sides and the monopoles in the rear. Make sure the dipole speakers are on the same line as the main listening seat. Follow the diagrams in post #1.

[LQQK]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Put the dipoles on the sides and the monopoles in the rear. Make sure the dipole speakers are on the same line as the main listening seat. Follow the diagrams in post #1.

Due to a fire place, the sides will be about 1' back from the line needed for true side alignment, would it still be OK due to the 8' height location of all speakers?

LQQK

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by LQQK

Due to a fire place, the sides will be about 1' back from the line needed for true side alignment, would it still be OK due to the 8' height location of all speakers?

LQQK

Normally, eight feet high is too much and dipole speakers should be on the sides, but we all have to make compromises. Many people have the same problem. You should be ok.

You can experiment a little. Temporarily, place the dipole speakers on the sides and in the rear and decide which position you prefer.

[LQQK]

I agree 100% on the height, But, I'll just have to experiment with them for them.

Nice info you wrote on placement in this thread and Part II-->

LQQK

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by LQQK

I agree 100% on the height, But, I'll just have to experiment with them for them.

Nice info you wrote on placement in this thread and Part II-->

LQQK

Thank you.

Don't be affraid to experiment.

[rana_kirti]

hi BD and everyone,

guys thanks for all the inputs. I ended up buying PSB Image S5 Bipole surrounds

How far back from the listening position should i put them...? I expeerimented with 1 feet to 3 feet. Me and my brother both felt it too prominent at 1 ft and more natural and spacious at 3 ft.

I have only one shot to install as my mom won't approve too many installation holes. So should i go 1 ft back or 3 ft back from the sides of listening position ?

How much distance do you guys prefer ?

Regards,

Rana

[Steve]

Originally Posted by rana_kirti

hi BD and everyone,

guys thanks for all the inputs. I ended up buying PSB Image S5 Bipole surrounds

How far back from the listening position should i put them...? I expeerimented with 1 feet to 3 feet. Me and my brother both felt it too prominent at 1 ft and more natural and spacious at 3 ft.

I have only one shot to install as my mom won't approve too many installation holes. So should i go 1 ft back or 3 ft back from the sides of listening position ?

How much distance do you guys prefer ?

Regards,

Rana

I think you answered your own question with the statement in bold. If 3 ft. is where they sound best to you then 3 ft. is where they should go.

[rana_kirti]

i guess i did lol.

though i had a query that's been playing on my mind. How is one supposed to experience/hear surround sound ? i'll expand on the question in the following example....

Scene : A car seems to to be coming from the left side of the viewer, so first we hear the sound on the left side and then second we see the backside of the car appearing on the left side of the screen and then it further continues forward in the left side of the screen and we hear the car sound now move towards the left front speaker.

So in the above scenario the question is...

When the sound of the car first appears in the left surround speaker...

1. Is the viewer supposed to hear the sound originate 90 degrees left of him ?

or

2. Is the viewer supposed to hear the sound originate slightly back of the left of him say 110 to 130 degrees ?

I hope i've been able to express my question in an understandable way...

[walmat]

If the car is coming from behind you then the sound should come from behind you then move to the front of you once the car moves in front. The idea of surrounds is that they are supposed to mimic positionalliy as closely as possible with what appears on the screen as if you were in the middle of the action.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by rana_kirti

hi BD and everyone,

guys thanks for all the inputs. I ended up buying PSB Image S5 Bipole surrounds

How far back from the listening position should i put them...? I expeerimented with 1 feet to 3 feet. Me and my brother both felt it too prominent at 1 ft and more natural and spacious at 3 ft.

I have only one shot to install as my mom won't approve too many installation holes. So should i go 1 ft back or 3 ft back from the sides of listening position ?

How much distance do you guys prefer ?

Regards,

Rana

If your room is relatively small and plan to add rear surround speakers, don't install the side surround speakers too far back. If you don't intend to add rear surround speakers, then 3 feet or more should be ok.

[rana_kirti]

thanks, yes i do indeed plan to buy another pair of S5 for Rear Surrounds.

Currently my room length is 19 ft and i tend to sit at 15 ft from a 110" screen. I will install my Side Surrounds S5 based on your answers to these questions and will probably sit a little ahead at 14 ft or 13 ft if need be so that i can accommodate Rear Surrounds in a proper way in the future. Could you tell me....

1. What should be the ideal minimum distance of Rear Surrounds from back of head ?

2. Also what should be the ideal minimum distance of Rear Surrounds from Side surrounds so that both can work well together and be at their effective best partnership with each other ? How much further back should Rear Surrounds be as compared to Side surrounds ?

Regards,

Rana

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by rana_kirti

thanks, yes i do indeed plan to buy another pair of S5 for Rear Surrounds.

Currently my room length is 19 ft and i tend to sit at 15 ft from a 110" screen. I will install my Side Surrounds S5 based on your answers to these questions and will probably sit a little ahead at 14 ft or 13 ft if need be so that i can accommodate Rear Surrounds in a proper way in the future. Could you tell me....

1. What should be the ideal minimum distance of Rear Surrounds from back of head ?

2. Also what should be the ideal minimum distance of Rear Surrounds from Side surrounds so that both can work well together and be at their effective best partnership with each other ? How much further back should Rear Surrounds be as compared to Side surrounds ?

Regards,

Rana

There is no ideal rule. It depends on your room size, its shape, room acoustics, and personal preference. The only helpful guideline is that try to install the rear surround speakers so that they are are not too close to the side walls. The maximum distance between the two rear surround speakers should be around 4-5 ft. The bipolar side surround speakers should be around 2-3 ft behind your head. Before you install the speakers permanently, experiment with their location. Whatever you prefer is the best option.

[razza]

Awesome thread Big Daddy really informative and straight to the point, thank-you!
I have one quick question, with 2 rows of seating do you have to have a set of surround speakers for each row or are there alternatives? My second row is pretty much hard up against the back wall, with this in mind the options I've come up with are:

1. 2 sets of dipoles (or monopoles?) in line with each row.
2. 2 sets of bipoles with them being slightly behind each row (same as your setup). Although for the second row as mentioned they will be pretty close to the back wall so that may be a problem?
3. 1 set of bipoles inbetween the 2 rows (or some other location).

Ideally I'd like to go with option 3 as it's the simplest and cheapest but if it's not ideal I won't cut myself short.
My receiver doesn't support multiple surrounds so I would just be wiring them up in series if I went with that option.
I'm setting up for 7.2 so there will be back surrounds as well. That would be my next problem, either monopoles or bipoles!