A Guide to Bipolar, Dipolar, & Direct-Radiating Monopole Surround Speakers (PART II) - Page 8 - Blu-ray Forum

SJELR · 12-28-2012, 02:54 PM

I am setting up a 7.1 surround system. The room is 10'W x 18'L x 8'H. My side and rear surrounds are FXI A6. The side surrounds are mounted 3.5 feet from the back wall due to a door preventing them being placed farther forward. My question is placement of the rear speakers. I have a 6' wide window on the back wall so the speakers have to be mounted against ceiling above the window where they can be closer together or I can mount them lower on the wall on either side of the window. It seems the ideal position is right in front of the window so I have to either mount them too high or too far apart. Any thoughts on which option will be better?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Big Daddy · 12-28-2012, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJELR

I am setting up a 7.1 surround system. The room is 10'W x 18'L x 8'H. My side and rear surrounds are FXI A6. The side surrounds are mounted 3.5 feet from the back wall due to a door preventing them being placed farther forward. My question is placement of the rear speakers. I have a 6' wide window on the back wall so the speakers have to be mounted against ceiling above the window where they can be closer together or I can mount them lower on the wall on either side of the window. It seems the ideal position is right in front of the window so I have to either mount them too high or too far apart. Any thoughts on which option will be better?

Thanks in advance for any help!

You have several options:

Use two tall speaker stands and place the rear surround speakers on top of them.
Use a couple of ceiling mounts for TV with long extension poles and attch them to the ceiling.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_saca...g+mounts&rt=nc
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...ckets&_sacat=0
You may be able to find ceiling mounts with shelves for old style CRT TVs and place the surround speakers on top of the shelves. That is what I used. I found two excellent CRT TVceiling mounts for $13 each and use them with my large rear surround speakers.
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=PTC20-B
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PTC13-B-Prim...item4ab84ea86a
Use chains and build yourself a DIY type of ceiling shelves and place the rear surround speakers on top of them.

SJELR · 12-28-2012, 11:56 PM

Thanks for the quick response. By the way, I forgot to mention how awesome your original post was. I can't begin to tell you how helpful it has been.

As for the mounts, I can actually wall mount them above the window but they will be right against the ceiling to be above the window which is a little high. Not sure if I could get away with mounting them in front of the window with a ceiling mount that hangs down in front of the window (I think that is what you were suggesting). Wife might kick me and the speakers to the curb.... LOL. Do you think mounting them high with 4 feet between them or lower on each side of the 6' wide window would be better.

Big Daddy · 12-29-2012, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJELR

Thanks for the quick response. By the way, I forgot to mention how awesome your original post was. I can't begin to tell you how helpful it has been.

As for the mounts, I can actually wall mount them above the window but they will be right against the ceiling to be above the window which is a little high. Not sure if I could get away with mounting them in front of the window with a ceiling mount that hangs down in front of the window (I think that is what you were suggesting). Wife might kick me and the speakers to the curb.... LOL. Do you think mounting them high with 4 feet between them or lower on each side of the 6' wide window would be better.

Go ahead and do it. After she kicks you out, start knocking on the window at night and making strange noises. She will be too scared by herself and eventually may let you back in the house.

Alternatively, buy her a gift and do it.

JOMV · 12-31-2012, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Go ahead and do it. After she kicks you out, start knocking on the window at night and making strange noises. She will be too scared by herself and eventually may let you back in the house.

Alternatively, buy her a gift and do it.

You must be crazy or went through that same experience!!!

hahaha
Happy New Year, Big Daddy!!!!.. I have to send you some pics of the project. It is finished and I have to thank you for your effort and patience.

Ur the best!!!

Ps:
@ SJELR:
Big Daddy's advice is the right one. Buying her a present is a VERY good move. A new Coach or Michael Kors shoes/purse ALWAYS works!!.

Good luck!!!

elfstones65 · 06-27-2013, 03:33 PM

Hi seriously great post!

I remember seeing the part2 post a while back and remember there being picutures around the area for excellent and so forth showing different layouts.

I've finally got the kit just need to know ideas for the best placement.

Thanks once again.

Jay

danielrg · 08-22-2013, 01:54 AM

I have a long room. 26' long, 10.5' wide, 8' tall.

In the back a soffit comes down another 9 inches, and I have bookshelves coming up, leaving about 10" or so between the top of the shelves and the bottom of the soffit.

The rear seating ears will be 6' away from the back of room. The front seating ears are about 16' from the back (and 10' from the front).

I have been thinking I definitely want bipoles on the sides due to the narrowness of the room.

But I think monopoles for the rear channels should be fine in my case, since the room is narrow and they are pretty far back, plus they'll sit in the nook between shelf top and soffit bottom and I can make the front of the rear monopoles flush with the bookcase/soffit edge so sound doesn't bounce around in there.

At the very least the axioms would be out with bottom and top firing drivers! They'd be firing right into the top of the shelf and bottom of soffit.

Anyhow - my plan is bipoles on sides, monopoles in rear - would all dipoles still suit me better? Any other comments?

Thanks! And great posts/comments and super excellent 1st post!

Johan1981 · 11-08-2013, 04:25 PM

I know you recommend to place bi-poles slightly behind the LP, though I have just ordered some Monitor Audio RXFX speakers which, according to the Monitor Audio RXFX Manual, need to be placed like you recommended to place di-poles.

What is the reason for placing bi-poles slightly more back than di-poles? Is it that important to place the bi-poles slightly behind the LP?

I want to place them as good as possible, I am just not sure which mode I will like more, di- or bi-pole, but since di-pole positioning is quite clear and exact I am a bit at a loss what to go for.
Reading up on the difference between di- and bi-pole makes me think I will like bi-pole more, but I will only know after testing it. And drilling to sets of holes is a bit extreme and I would love to avoid that scenario if possible.

Thanks for your awesome explanations and guides here on the forum!!!

dvdwatcher · 03-06-2016, 12:18 AM

so Im getting ready to purchase a pair of F/Xi A4 or the 6 I currently have the Klipsch S3 as my side surrounds in my 7.1 system and I was going to place the F/Xi in the rears but from what I can tell would I be better moving both of those positions?

dvdwatcher · 03-06-2016, 03:15 PM

Anyone?

DavePS3 · 03-06-2016, 03:25 PM

My take on bi-polar and dipole speakers is... they were originally produced for the old Pro-Logic, where the rears were mono and low power so spreading the sound out from the back made sense. DDTHD... DTSHD... is specific channel information. Sounds are directed to the individual speakers like in the fronts. By using Bi-Polar or Dipole speakers, you're diffusing the sound... it is no longer as directional as it is meant to be. My view is that if you wouldn't diffuse the sound from the fronts, it would be kinda counter-productive to do it in the rears. Just my 2 cents anyway!

Asdqqq · 03-09-2016, 01:51 AM

So the 5.1 setup with two monopole speakers 10' behind on the back wall would work really well in my long, skinny room, but I haven't seen that suggested layout anywhere else. Is this information now outdated with the modern surround encodes, or is that still a solid 5.1 surround setup?

DavePS3 · 03-09-2016, 03:34 AM

Regular speakers are my preferance.

Asdqqq · 03-09-2016, 06:40 PM

Is 10 feet back on the back wall OK, or would they be much better placed on the sides like they are in all of the diagrams I see everywhere else?

DavePS3 · 03-15-2016, 01:38 PM

To me, the point of 'Surround' is to have the rears just behind you but if you're sitting at the back wall, that's a bit tough.

dvdwatcher · 03-26-2016, 07:04 PM

Im getting ready this summer to build some new movie shelves but I recently picked up my Polk Audio FXI A4 for sides and rears.

My question is what is the closest distance I should place the side of the shelf as to not distort the audio from the polk's?

dvdwatcher · 03-28-2016, 10:46 PM

Anyone?

Opips3 · 03-29-2016, 02:42 AM

I've PSB bipolar, I read manual says height 5fts minimum.

So, matter it the closest distance. Don't couch side left and right straight to bipolar.

bipolar side on wall. It's good for two couches.

http://www.audiogurus.com/learn/spea...e-speakers/290

yellowcakeuf6 · 04-18-2016, 10:48 PM

I'm still using my Mirage bipolar M5si and Mcsi along with some direct radiating Mirage surrounds in my plasma system and they sound great. I've got a JBL Pro Cinema speakers setup in my projection room and this is what I've found: The bipolar Mirages give you a deeper and bigger sound stage (excellent for concert hall orchestral music), while the JBL Pro 3677s give you more immediate detail and power; sort of like a wall (JBLs) vs a deep open space (Mirages). Different, but both good. I used the Mirages for over fifteen years in my HT, so I know them well. The JBLs were just as difficult to set up properly, but very different in the long run. The Mirages need 3 feet of open space behind them, while the JBLs are tucked into a sort of heavily treated baffle area behind the screen. Quality speakers can be made to work well in any setup if you fine tune them. It comes down to preference. I had the Mirages in my music system before I did a dedicated HT, but they performed well, and were advertised for Home Theater back in the 90s. The main difference between the two systems is power. While the Mirages always performed great at reference powered by a Sunfire Cinema Grand, The JBLs are more efficient and there is a noticeable difference in immediacy and power of presentation. The Mirages still sound fantastic for music and movies, and the JBLs get me closer to the cinema at home.

gvlada · 08-21-2016, 09:49 PM

Hi, listener distance from surround rear and back speakers is some 6.5ft. I am using bipole/dipole speakers with great spacing.

06-27-2013, 03:33 PM	#146
elfstones65 New Member Member since:Jun 2013	Pictures? Hi seriously great post! I remember seeing the part2 post a while back and remember there being picutures around the area for excellent and so forth showing different layouts. I've finally got the kit just need to know ideas for the best placement. Thanks once again. Jay

08-21-2016, 09:49 PM	#160
gvlada New Member Member since:Mar 2016	Hi, listener distance from surround rear and back speakers is some 6.5ft. I am using bipole/dipole speakers with great spacing. Last edited by gvlada; 07-16-2017 at 06:34 PM.

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12-28-2012, 02:54 PM	#141
SJELR New Member Member since:Dec 2012	I am setting up a 7.1 surround system. The room is 10'W x 18'L x 8'H. My side and rear surrounds are FXI A6. The side surrounds are mounted 3.5 feet from the back wall due to a door preventing them being placed farther forward. My question is placement of the rear speakers. I have a 6' wide window on the back wall so the speakers have to be mounted against ceiling above the window where they can be closer together or I can mount them lower on the wall on either side of the window. It seems the ideal position is right in front of the window so I have to either mount them too high or too far apart. Any thoughts on which option will be better? Thanks in advance for any help!

12-28-2012, 11:56 PM	#143
SJELR New Member Member since:Dec 2012	Thanks for the quick response. By the way, I forgot to mention how awesome your original post was. I can't begin to tell you how helpful it has been. As for the mounts, I can actually wall mount them above the window but they will be right against the ceiling to be above the window which is a little high. Not sure if I could get away with mounting them in front of the window with a ceiling mount that hangs down in front of the window (I think that is what you were suggesting). Wife might kick me and the speakers to the curb.... LOL. Do you think mounting them high with 4 feet between them or lower on each side of the 6' wide window would be better.

08-22-2013, 01:54 AM	#147
danielrg Active Member Top contributor Member since:Aug 2012 4K collection:132 Blu-ray collection:1266 DVD collection:702 Digital collection:3 Blu-ray reviews:10	I have a long room. 26' long, 10.5' wide, 8' tall. In the back a soffit comes down another 9 inches, and I have bookshelves coming up, leaving about 10" or so between the top of the shelves and the bottom of the soffit. The rear seating ears will be 6' away from the back of room. The front seating ears are about 16' from the back (and 10' from the front). I have been thinking I definitely want bipoles on the sides due to the narrowness of the room. But I think monopoles for the rear channels should be fine in my case, since the room is narrow and they are pretty far back, plus they'll sit in the nook between shelf top and soffit bottom and I can make the front of the rear monopoles flush with the bookcase/soffit edge so sound doesn't bounce around in there. At the very least the axioms would be out with bottom and top firing drivers! They'd be firing right into the top of the shelf and bottom of soffit. Anyhow - my plan is bipoles on sides, monopoles in rear - would all dipoles still suit me better? Any other comments? Thanks! And great posts/comments and super excellent 1st post!

11-08-2013, 04:25 PM	#148
Johan1981 Active Member Top contributor Member since:Sep 2008 Home Theater Gallery:19 Blu-ray collection:15 Blu-ray reviews:1	I know you recommend to place bi-poles slightly behind the LP, though I have just ordered some Monitor Audio RXFX speakers which, according to the Monitor Audio RXFX Manual, need to be placed like you recommended to place di-poles. What is the reason for placing bi-poles slightly more back than di-poles? Is it that important to place the bi-poles slightly behind the LP? I want to place them as good as possible, I am just not sure which mode I will like more, di- or bi-pole, but since di-pole positioning is quite clear and exact I am a bit at a loss what to go for. Reading up on the difference between di- and bi-pole makes me think I will like bi-pole more, but I will only know after testing it. And drilling to sets of holes is a bit extreme and I would love to avoid that scenario if possible. Thanks for your awesome explanations and guides here on the forum!!!

03-06-2016, 12:18 AM	#149
dvdwatcher Power Member Member since:Jun 2009 Location:Stanwood, Washington Home Theater Gallery:5 4K collection:56 Blu-ray collection:695 Trading Score:550	so Im getting ready to purchase a pair of F/Xi A4 or the 6 I currently have the Klipsch S3 as my side surrounds in my 7.1 system and I was going to place the F/Xi in the rears but from what I can tell would I be better moving both of those positions?

03-06-2016, 03:15 PM	#150
dvdwatcher Power Member Member since:Jun 2009 Location:Stanwood, Washington Home Theater Gallery:5 4K collection:56 Blu-ray collection:695 Trading Score:550	Anyone?

03-06-2016, 03:25 PM	#151
DavePS3 Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Toronto Home Theater Gallery:55 Blu-ray reviews:1 Trading Score:1	My take on bi-polar and dipole speakers is... they were originally produced for the old Pro-Logic, where the rears were mono and low power so spreading the sound out from the back made sense. DDTHD... DTSHD... is specific channel information. Sounds are directed to the individual speakers like in the fronts. By using Bi-Polar or Dipole speakers, you're diffusing the sound... it is no longer as directional as it is meant to be. My view is that if you wouldn't diffuse the sound from the fronts, it would be kinda counter-productive to do it in the rears. Just my 2 cents anyway!

03-09-2016, 01:51 AM	#152
Asdqqq Active Member Member since:Jan 2014 Blu-ray collection:28 DVD collection:19 Digital collection:46 Trading Score:120	So the 5.1 setup with two monopole speakers 10' behind on the back wall would work really well in my long, skinny room, but I haven't seen that suggested layout anywhere else. Is this information now outdated with the modern surround encodes, or is that still a solid 5.1 surround setup?

03-09-2016, 03:34 AM	#153
DavePS3 Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Toronto Home Theater Gallery:55 Blu-ray reviews:1 Trading Score:1	Regular speakers are my preferance.

03-09-2016, 06:40 PM	#154
Asdqqq Active Member Member since:Jan 2014 Blu-ray collection:28 DVD collection:19 Digital collection:46 Trading Score:120	Is 10 feet back on the back wall OK, or would they be much better placed on the sides like they are in all of the diagrams I see everywhere else?

03-15-2016, 01:38 PM	#155
DavePS3 Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Toronto Home Theater Gallery:55 Blu-ray reviews:1 Trading Score:1	To me, the point of 'Surround' is to have the rears just behind you but if you're sitting at the back wall, that's a bit tough.

03-26-2016, 07:04 PM	#156
dvdwatcher Power Member Member since:Jun 2009 Location:Stanwood, Washington Home Theater Gallery:5 4K collection:56 Blu-ray collection:695 Trading Score:550	Im getting ready this summer to build some new movie shelves but I recently picked up my Polk Audio FXI A4 for sides and rears. My question is what is the closest distance I should place the side of the shelf as to not distort the audio from the polk's?

03-28-2016, 10:46 PM	#157
dvdwatcher Power Member Member since:Jun 2009 Location:Stanwood, Washington Home Theater Gallery:5 4K collection:56 Blu-ray collection:695 Trading Score:550	Anyone?

03-29-2016, 02:42 AM	#158
Opips3 Banned Member since:Mar 2015 4K collection:43 Blu-ray collection:354 Blu-ray reviews:2	I've PSB bipolar, I read manual says height 5fts minimum. So, matter it the closest distance. Don't couch side left and right straight to bipolar. bipolar side on wall. It's good for two couches. http://www.audiogurus.com/learn/spea...e-speakers/290

04-18-2016, 10:48 PM	#159
yellowcakeuf6 Blu-ray Guru Member since:Nov 2008 4K collection:- Blu-ray collection:- DVD collection:- Blu-ray reviews: 16	I'm still using my Mirage bipolar M5si and Mcsi along with some direct radiating Mirage surrounds in my plasma system and they sound great. I've got a JBL Pro Cinema speakers setup in my projection room and this is what I've found: The bipolar Mirages give you a deeper and bigger sound stage (excellent for concert hall orchestral music), while the JBL Pro 3677s give you more immediate detail and power; sort of like a wall (JBLs) vs a deep open space (Mirages). Different, but both good. I used the Mirages for over fifteen years in my HT, so I know them well. The JBLs were just as difficult to set up properly, but very different in the long run. The Mirages need 3 feet of open space behind them, while the JBLs are tucked into a sort of heavily treated baffle area behind the screen. Quality speakers can be made to work well in any setup if you fine tune them. It comes down to preference. I had the Mirages in my music system before I did a dedicated HT, but they performed well, and were advertised for Home Theater back in the 90s. The main difference between the two systems is power. While the Mirages always performed great at reference powered by a Sunfire Cinema Grand, The JBLs are more efficient and there is a noticeable difference in immediacy and power of presentation. The Mirages still sound fantastic for music and movies, and the JBLs get me closer to the cinema at home.

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