When upconvert players cost more than HD DVD players - Blu-ray Forum

DealsR4theDevil · 11-05-2007, 08:00 PM

It is truly a sad state of affairs for Toshiba. When you price your "next-gen" product lower than lesser technology and give away 10 free movies with the purchase, it is truly pathetic. How does anybody still believe HD DVD is doing good? Honestly, upconvert players cost more than that A2 crap, and some even cost more than the A3.

Elandyll · 11-05-2007, 08:08 PM

Some people will not look past the "freebies" and the low price.

But I dare think that the majority will look into the long run, and for what could bring the best possible experience.

Somehow, I tihnk HD DVD has miscalculated their "coup", and attracted the DVD upconvert crowd, or even the "I'll use it as a DVD waiting to see what happens, I don't have a HDTV anyway" crowd.

I dare think that early adopters of large screen HDTVs, investing thousands of dollars, want the best on their TVs, and with only a little research not only will find out which one it is, but also which one has major support (from industry and familly oriented studios) but also which doesn't go the Kmart way and values its customers

If I'm right, those Fire sales, including Black Friday will have minimal to no impact to Software sales. If Freebies are counted, of course, it will, but still in a rather limited scale.

CptGreedle · 11-05-2007, 08:10 PM

Something tells me this will not generate huge software sales for HD-DVD. I see DVDs played on those things first, with maybe one or two HD-DVDs in the mix eventually, but they will just buy this until BD comes down to around $299.
Just my 2¢

haushausman · 11-05-2007, 08:15 PM

That's a good point. I can't believe consumers do not clearly see that this smacks of desperation and is basically a fire/clearance sale.

I was a Sam's Club looking at Upconvert DVD players with my g/f and they were all $100+.

If I knew nothing about this "war", I'd be very afraid to buy into something priced so low.

Porscheman · 11-05-2007, 08:36 PM

if blu plays their cards right, they will use this weak promotion to their advantage. What this did do is spike an interest in High def dvd... therefore if blu does a push now, with disney, they could spike the interest in blu's corner...

i think both sides won a bit with the cheapo crap that toshiba pulled.

ClaytonMG · 11-05-2007, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haushausman

That's a good point. I can't believe consumers do not clearly see that this smacks of desperation and is basically a fire/clearance sale.

I was a Sam's Club looking at Upconvert DVD players with my g/f and they were all $100+.

If I knew nothing about this "war", I'd be very afraid to buy into something priced so low.

If you actually go to DVDEmpire.com, I am getting into with people on there because in the HD-DVD section, their blogger posted a thing that brags about the low price and finishes the article with "BEAT THAT BLU-RAY!" and then in the Blu-Ray section, another guy keeps bragging about the HD-DVD exclusives and why it was cheaper to get the 360 and HD-DVD add on than it was to get a PS3 (which isn't true by the way).

ClaytonMG · 11-05-2007, 08:50 PM

Sorry, I see he's changed his tune now. It's not the price that was the problem with the PS3, it's the lack of games now.

Mikeesracing · 11-05-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

Something tells me this will not generate huge software sales for HD-DVD. I see DVDs played on those things first, with maybe one or two HD-DVDs in the mix eventually, but they will just buy this until BD comes down to around $299.
Just my 2¢

I agree, If consumers don't want pay for a HD player so they wait until the price is 100 dollars or less, They aren't going to pay the extra money for a HD-DVD they will buy a SD-DVD.

SNAP · 11-05-2007, 08:59 PM

Watch it Captain....Toshiba may see your post and start charging 2 cents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptGreedle

Something tells me this will not generate huge software sales for HD-DVD. I see DVDs played on those things first, with maybe one or two HD-DVDs in the mix eventually, but they will just buy this until BD comes down to around $299.
Just my 2¢

Branden · 11-05-2007, 09:19 PM

i've said it before: the name hd-dvd itself perpetuates confusion about hd-dvd. i get the impression there's alot of people out there that think hd-dvd is the same thing as dvd upconversion, and now with hd-dvd players at comparable prices as upconverting players.....

BlackMR2 · 11-06-2007, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haushausman

That's a good point. I can't believe consumers do not clearly see that this smacks of desperation and is basically a fire/clearance sale.

I was a Sam's Club looking at Upconvert DVD players with my g/f and they were all $100+.

If I knew nothing about this "war", I'd be very afraid to buy into something priced so low.

Why would you be affraid to buy it you were already looking for an upcoverting DVD player at similar money? Do Free HD movies frighten you? or does having a product that can simply be used as an upconverting player at a similar price scare you?

:-/

I hope my post hasn't scared you.

You guys should be thankful you can buy players at the prices you can. The equivalent of the HD-A2 cost me $550 US in my country a week ago and only came with 4 movies.

Bottom line is that is still outputs a good picture and good audio so i can deal with paying that much. But seriously you guys have it great over there... although recent figures suggest we are much wealthier than you guys but our housing debt is a lot worse

tron3 · 11-06-2007, 02:45 PM

http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-HD-A35...363754&sr=8-10

$390 at Amazon for the Toshiba HD-A35 1080p HD DVD Player. They are just trying to push out the old stock and gain some supporters in the process.

stockstar1138 · 11-06-2007, 02:57 PM

this is why this a2 deal is not going to work. if somebody buys an a2 they will

a. watch upconverted DVDs, no impact of the war
b. be buying a second player, thus not really creating a new hd dvd buyer
c. watch hd dvds.

c. is the only one the affects this war. now lets analyze c, further. what we know is c. is cheap, he doesn't spend a whole lot of money otherwise he would have bought this thing earlier. thus, c. will not be shelling out a ton of money on software. what we also know about c. is that he isn't a blatent hd dvd fanboy, otherwise he would have probably taken the plunge long ago, this means he has nothing against blu-ray except the current price. now how many ppl on here have complained about the quality of dvd after being exposed to blu? lots. now what happens when c. can't get certain movies on hd dvd, because they are blu-ray exclusive and he settles for dvd of the movie. he is going to think it looks awful and go out and buy a cheap (spring 08) blu player. remember he is not a fanboy.

JAGUAR1977 · 11-06-2007, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackMR2

Why would you be affraid to buy it you were already looking for an upcoverting DVD player at similar money? Do Free HD movies frighten you? or does having a product that can simply be used as an upconverting player at a similar price scare you?

:-/

I hope my post hasn't scared you.

You guys should be thankful you can buy players at the prices you can. The equivalent of the HD-A2 cost me $550 US in my country a week ago and only came with 4 movies.

Bottom line is that is still outputs a good picture and good audio so i can deal with paying that much. But seriously you guys have it great over there... although recent figures suggest we are much wealthier than you guys but our housing debt is a lot worse

For those in the know it's a great price for an upscaling DVD player with free HD-DVD's, or a second HD-DVD player.

For the masses, if they can actually get their hands on one, it'll be used primarily for DVD's, which when you're selling these at huge losses, isn't great for your bottom line.

I wouldn't call anyone for jumping on one of these players, but to suggest it's anymore than a last ditch attempt to stay in the game this Q4 is foolhardy.

Wet1 · 11-06-2007, 03:15 PM

While I own and enjoy my PS3 and the 75-100 (?) BR movies I have, I'll admit to giving in to a $99 A3 HD DVD player (plus ten free movies) this past week.

Do I think it's desperation on the part of Toshiba? Not totally. They were cleaning house with the A2 and it makes a lot of sense to do so in a way to create a lot of buzz before the holiday season (plus get more software consumers in the field before the holidays). It worked. I know Toshiba is heavily subsidising, Sony is too. Let's not forget the amount Toshiba has made off of DVD royalties (I'm sure it's in the BILLIONS), so both camps are willing to do what it takes to win the HDM pot this time around.

Do I feel bad about buying into HD DVD? Yes and no. I'm a firm believer only one format is desired / needed and it's in everyone's best interest to have a single format. I've heavily supported BR throughout this silly war (and will continue to do so). I thought this thing would be coming to an end by the beginning of 2008, but clearly there's no end in sight. Frustrated by this war, I've waited long enough holding out on content from several major studios. With this said, Toshiba and BB GIVING me an A3 and ten movies for $99 is more than enough incentive for me to go neutral. There aren't that many HD DVD titles I really want, but I think it would have been foolish of me to pass up this deal.

It cost me almost nothing to buy into HD DVD, it significantly increased the amount of HDM available to me, and I basically have very little to lose. If a year from now HD DVD is dead (unlikely at this point?), I have a player to play my limited HD DVD library with and I'll be able to buy wanted HD DVD titles on ebay for peanuts. I spend thousands every year upgrading projectors (which depreciate at the speed of light) and other A/V equipment throughout our house... if I lose <$500 on buying into HD DVD and it fails, I won't shed a tear.

With that said, I still want BR to win this thing, I'm just not happy with the time frame it looks like it could take.

Just my 2 cents.

Sling · 11-06-2007, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wet1

While I own and enjoy my PS3 and the 75-100 (?) BR movies I have, I'll admit to giving in to a $99 A3 HD DVD player (plus ten free movies) this past week.

Sounds like you wasted money that could have used been used for BR movies

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wet1

Do I think it's desperation on the part of Toshiba? Not totally. They were cleaning house with the A2 and it makes a lot of sense to do so in a way to create a lot of buzz before the holiday season (plus get more software consumers in the field before the holidays). It worked. I know Toshiba is heavily subsidising, Sony is too. Let's not forget the amount Toshiba has made off of DVD royalties (I'm sure it's in the BILLIONS), so both camps are willing to do what it takes to win the HDM pot this time around..

Toshiba dumping 1080i product on the consumer selling it well below cost not making a red cent...Topping that off giving up 10 movies for free...Do the math man..Toshiba is drowning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wet1

Do I feel bad about buying into HD DVD? Yes and no. I'm a firm believer only one format is desired / needed and it's in everyone's best interest to have a single format. I've heavily supported BR throughout this silly war (and will continue to do so). I thought this thing would be coming to an end by the beginning of 2008, but clearly there's no end in sight. Frustrated by this war, I've waited long enough holding out on content from several major studios. With this said, Toshiba and BB GIVING me an A3 and ten movies for $99 is more than enough incentive for me to go neutral. There aren't that many HD DVD titles I really want, but I think it would have been foolish of me to pass up this deal. ..

You see no end to this war because consumers like you yourself support both formats.You don't support Blu-ray you support this war

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wet1

It cost me almost nothing to buy into HD DVD, it significantly increased the amount of HDM available to me, and I basically have very little to lose. If a year from now HD DVD is dead (unlikely at this point?), I have a player to play my limited HD DVD library with and I'll be able to buy wanted HD DVD titles on ebay for peanuts. I spend thousands every year upgrading projectors (which depreciate at the speed of light) and other A/V equipment throughout our house... if I lose <$500 on buying into HD DVD and it fails, I won't shed a tear.

To bad the money you have wasted couldn't be put into the superior format which is Blu-ray but hey you don't like the format war if that makes any sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wet1

With that said, I still want BR to win this thing,

No you dont or you would be Blu-ray exclusive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wet1

I'm just not happy with the time frame it looks like it could take.,

Your not happy with the time frame yet you support HD-DUD..hmm your lost and scared.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wet1

Just my 2 cents.

Stop fooling yourself.Your opinions worth 1 cent.

sega_smasher · 11-06-2007, 05:01 PM

thats harsh sling. the dude is just giving his opinion. what kind of place is this where someone who just wants to speak gets picked apart? cmon guys, play nice.

SNAP · 11-06-2007, 05:05 PM

Good going Sega, it sounds like a lot of people, on both sides, are losing sleep over this format war.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sega_smasher

thats harsh sling. the dude is just giving his opinion. what kind of place is this where someone who just wants to speak gets picked apart? cmon guys, play nice.

Sling · 11-06-2007, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sega_smasher

thats harsh sling. the dude is just giving his opinion. what kind of place is this where someone who just wants to speak gets picked apart? cmon guys, play nice.

Harsh...not at all.He wants format war to end yet supports both topping that off with Toshiba has a worth while strategy...Come on sega_smasher...His post was bull.
new members joining this forum need to know his 'don't make sense direction'. prolongs such war.

SDG · 11-06-2007, 05:22 PM

Name 10 must have hd dvd movies that cant be aquired from a Blu supporter. The uninformed person that buys it will get 10 movies free. What future move will be a must have hd dvd in the near future. Long term, this may help hd dvd a little. Short term, i dont think it will help them. I expect to see their attach rate #s go down.

11-05-2007, 08:00 PM	#1
DealsR4theDevil Power Member Member since:Sep 2007 Trading Score:76	When upconvert players cost more than HD DVD players It is truly a sad state of affairs for Toshiba. When you price your "next-gen" product lower than lesser technology and give away 10 free movies with the purchase, it is truly pathetic. How does anybody still believe HD DVD is doing good? Honestly, upconvert players cost more than that A2 crap, and some even cost more than the A3.

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11-05-2007, 08:08 PM	#2
Elandyll Blu-ray Knight Member since:Aug 2007 Location:MD Blu-ray collection:188 Trading Score:1	Some people will not look past the "freebies" and the low price. But I dare think that the majority will look into the long run, and for what could bring the best possible experience. Somehow, I tihnk HD DVD has miscalculated their "coup", and attracted the DVD upconvert crowd, or even the "I'll use it as a DVD waiting to see what happens, I don't have a HDTV anyway" crowd. I dare think that early adopters of large screen HDTVs, investing thousands of dollars, want the best on their TVs, and with only a little research not only will find out which one it is, but also which one has major support (from industry and familly oriented studios) but also which doesn't go the Kmart way and values its customers If I'm right, those Fire sales, including Black Friday will have minimal to no impact to Software sales. If Freebies are counted, of course, it will, but still in a rather limited scale.

11-05-2007, 08:10 PM	#3
CptGreedle Blu-ray Ninja Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Sworn super-hero now services Atlanta (and suburbs). Blu-ray collection:128 Blu-ray reviews:5	Something tells me this will not generate huge software sales for HD-DVD. I see DVDs played on those things first, with maybe one or two HD-DVDs in the mix eventually, but they will just buy this until BD comes down to around $299. Just my 2¢

11-05-2007, 08:15 PM	#4
haushausman Special Member Member since:Jan 2007 Location:Chicago Home Theater Gallery:12 Blu-ray collection:343 Blu-ray reviews: 5	That's a good point. I can't believe consumers do not clearly see that this smacks of desperation and is basically a fire/clearance sale. I was a Sam's Club looking at Upconvert DVD players with my g/f and they were all $100+. If I knew nothing about this "war", I'd be very afraid to buy into something priced so low.

11-05-2007, 08:36 PM	#5
Porscheman Active Member Member since:Oct 2007	if blu plays their cards right, they will use this weak promotion to their advantage. What this did do is spike an interest in High def dvd... therefore if blu does a push now, with disney, they could spike the interest in blu's corner... i think both sides won a bit with the cheapo crap that toshiba pulled.

11-05-2007, 08:50 PM	#7
ClaytonMG Blu-ray Samurai Member since:May 2006 Location:New Brighton, MN Home Theater Gallery:16 4K collection:35 Blu-ray collection:1482 DVD collection:2 Blu-ray reviews:2 Trading Score:1	Sorry, I see he's changed his tune now. It's not the price that was the problem with the PS3, it's the lack of games now.

11-05-2007, 09:19 PM	#10
Branden Senior Member Member since:Jun 2007 Location:Calgary, Alberta 4K collection:23 Blu-ray collection:506	i've said it before: the name hd-dvd itself perpetuates confusion about hd-dvd. i get the impression there's alot of people out there that think hd-dvd is the same thing as dvd upconversion, and now with hd-dvd players at comparable prices as upconverting players.....

11-06-2007, 02:45 PM	#12
tron3 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Aug 2004 Location:New Jersey Blu-ray reviews:3	http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-HD-A35...363754&sr=8-10 $390 at Amazon for the Toshiba HD-A35 1080p HD DVD Player. They are just trying to push out the old stock and gain some supporters in the process.

11-06-2007, 02:57 PM	#13
stockstar1138 Banned Member since:Apr 2007	this is why this a2 deal is not going to work. if somebody buys an a2 they will a. watch upconverted DVDs, no impact of the war b. be buying a second player, thus not really creating a new hd dvd buyer c. watch hd dvds. c. is the only one the affects this war. now lets analyze c, further. what we know is c. is cheap, he doesn't spend a whole lot of money otherwise he would have bought this thing earlier. thus, c. will not be shelling out a ton of money on software. what we also know about c. is that he isn't a blatent hd dvd fanboy, otherwise he would have probably taken the plunge long ago, this means he has nothing against blu-ray except the current price. now how many ppl on here have complained about the quality of dvd after being exposed to blu? lots. now what happens when c. can't get certain movies on hd dvd, because they are blu-ray exclusive and he settles for dvd of the movie. he is going to think it looks awful and go out and buy a cheap (spring 08) blu player. remember he is not a fanboy.

11-06-2007, 03:15 PM	#15
Wet1 Member Member since:Jul 2007 Location:CT	While I own and enjoy my PS3 and the 75-100 (?) BR movies I have, I'll admit to giving in to a $99 A3 HD DVD player (plus ten free movies) this past week. Do I think it's desperation on the part of Toshiba? Not totally. They were cleaning house with the A2 and it makes a lot of sense to do so in a way to create a lot of buzz before the holiday season (plus get more software consumers in the field before the holidays). It worked. I know Toshiba is heavily subsidising, Sony is too. Let's not forget the amount Toshiba has made off of DVD royalties (I'm sure it's in the BILLIONS), so both camps are willing to do what it takes to win the HDM pot this time around. Do I feel bad about buying into HD DVD? Yes and no. I'm a firm believer only one format is desired / needed and it's in everyone's best interest to have a single format. I've heavily supported BR throughout this silly war (and will continue to do so). I thought this thing would be coming to an end by the beginning of 2008, but clearly there's no end in sight. Frustrated by this war, I've waited long enough holding out on content from several major studios. With this said, Toshiba and BB GIVING me an A3 and ten movies for $99 is more than enough incentive for me to go neutral. There aren't that many HD DVD titles I really want, but I think it would have been foolish of me to pass up this deal. It cost me almost nothing to buy into HD DVD, it significantly increased the amount of HDM available to me, and I basically have very little to lose. If a year from now HD DVD is dead (unlikely at this point?), I have a player to play my limited HD DVD library with and I'll be able to buy wanted HD DVD titles on ebay for peanuts. I spend thousands every year upgrading projectors (which depreciate at the speed of light) and other A/V equipment throughout our house... if I lose <$500 on buying into HD DVD and it fails, I won't shed a tear. With that said, I still want BR to win this thing, I'm just not happy with the time frame it looks like it could take. Just my 2 cents.

11-06-2007, 05:01 PM	#17
sega_smasher Blu-ray Guru Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Santa Monica, CA PSN: SecretAgentHam Blu-ray collection:103 Trading Score:1	thats harsh sling. the dude is just giving his opinion. what kind of place is this where someone who just wants to speak gets picked apart? cmon guys, play nice.

11-06-2007, 05:22 PM	#20
SDG Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Sep 2007 Location:Arkansas	Name 10 must have hd dvd movies that cant be aquired from a Blu supporter. The uninformed person that buys it will get 10 movies free. What future move will be a must have hd dvd in the near future. Long term, this may help hd dvd a little. Short term, i dont think it will help them. I expect to see their attach rate #s go down.

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