A Guide to Bipolar, Dipolar, & Direct-Radiating Monopole Surround Speakers (PART I)

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by rana_kirti

just got my PSB Image S5. My left wall is 36 inches from the center of the screen/sitting position but my right wall is 96 inches from center/sitting position. Difference of 30 inches.

1. will this affect the performance of surround channels...?

Thanks

Yes, it can. The room can affect the performance of all speakers. Sometimes, the left front and the right front speakers do not sound alike because of their location with respect to the boundaries. The auto calibration program takes care of some of the difference. Other than that, some room treatment can help.

[jplek]

Big Daddy,

After a long search, a pair of Definitive SR-8080BP was installed last evening.

I totally agree with you, as you had pointed out that bipolar speakers as side surrounds are good for movies and also good for multi-channel PCM blu-ray concerts.

Thanks

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by jplek

Big Daddy,

After a long search, a pair of Definitive SR-8080BP was installed last evening.

I totally agree with you, as you had pointed out that bipolar speakers as side surrounds are good for movies and also good for multi-channel PCM blu-ray concerts.

Thanks

Congratulations. Enjoy them.

[rana_kirti]

Originally Posted by rana_kirti

just got my PSB Image S5. My left wall is 36 inches from the center of the screen/sitting position but my right wall is 96 inches from center/sitting position. Difference of 30 inches.

1. will this affect the performance of surround channels...?

Thanks

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Yes, it can. The room can affect the performance of all speakers. Sometimes, the left front and the right front speakers do not sound alike because of their location with respect to the boundaries. The auto calibration program takes care of some of the difference. Other than that, some room treatment can help.

kind of re-asking this... i remeasured the distances and my room is designed in such a way that my left S5 will be at 70 inches away and right S5 will be at 95 inches away from the center of the screen/listening position.

now that's a diff of 25 inches.

I can re-arrange my projection screen 5 inches to the right and that will make my left S5 75 inches and right S5 will be at 90 inches from the center of the screen/listening position. now the difference will be 15 inches.

but to do this i will have to re-screw the projection screen brackets 5 inches to the right. this will leave cosmetic holes/deformation on the current bracket hole position and also the the new holes on the right side will be quite close to the edge of the wall and there is a risk of breaking the side off the wall while trying to drill too close at the edge.

So my doubts are....

1. Will it be worth it shifting the screen 5 inches right so that i can effectively bring the difference between left and right surround speaker S5's from current 25 inches to 15 inches...? I mean considering the risks mentioned above all i gain is 10 inches. Will it make a big difference ?

2. If i stay at current distance between the two surrounds at 25 inches will Audessey be able to compensate for this with it's calibration...?

3. Will this have a detrimental effect to my surround effects and movie experience or am i being too cynical ?

Thanks

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by rana_kirti

kind of re-asking this... i remeasured the distances and my room is designed in such a way that my left S5 will be at 70 inches away and right S5 will be at 95 inches away from the center of the screen/listening position.

now that's a diff of 25 inches.

I can re-arrange my projection screen 5 inches to the right and that will make my left S5 75 inches and right S5 will be at 90 inches from the center of the screen/listening position. now the difference will be 15 inches.

but to do this i will have to re-screw the projection screen brackets 5 inches to the right. this will leave cosmetic holes/deformation on the current bracket hole position and also the the new holes on the right side will be quite close to the edge of the wall and there is a risk of breaking the side off the wall while trying to drill too close at the edge.

So my doubts are....

1. Will it be worth it shifting the screen 5 inches right so that i can effectively bring the difference between left and right surround speaker S5's from current 25 inches to 15 inches...? I mean considering the risks mentioned above all i gain is 10 inches. Will it make a big difference ?

2. If i stay at current distance between the two surrounds at 25 inches will Audessey be able to compensate for this with it's calibration...?

3. Will this have a detrimental effect to my surround effects and movie experience or am i being too cynical ?

Thanks

No, don't bother to change anything. Surround speakers aren't as important as the front speakers. A few inches is not going to make a drastic change. As long as the SPL levels are properly adjusted, you probably won't hear much of a difference. The calibration program should take care of most of the rest of the disparity between the sound of the surround speakers. Additionally, some receivers give you the option of manually adjusting the equalization according to your taste.

[HAMP]

/\ /\ /\ /\

Also, that's why each speaker in the calibration has it's own db levels and distance that be can be set according to the listen spot.

I kinda hate that one side is a little further away from center then the other.

Mine is like that because of the studs in the wall and the way I had to mount my TV.

If I ever decide to get a PJ, which I doubt, then I wouldn’t have that issue.

[rana_kirti]

BD and HAMP... Thanks guys

[rana_kirti]

Hi Big Daddy,

Yesterday i heard my friend's setup which has back surrounds and he played several clips with and without back surrounds and the difference was immense. i felt the back surrounds added substantial scale on the back of my head. It enveloped the space behind me and felt amazing.

When i heard the same scenes with out back surrounds it just empty behind and a huge gap. The room of my width and my friends width is same of i suppose i can get similar results in my HT.

1. I have PSB Image S5 for side surrounds. Now i'm in a dilemma. I wonder which speaker will be a better option for back surround ? Should i go with another pair of S5 or should i go for Monopole B5 or B5 ?

2. Also should the back surrounds be installed at the same height as the side surrounds or higher/lower ?

Thanks & Regards,

Rana

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by rana_kirti

Hi Big Daddy,

Yesterday i heard my friend's setup which has back surrounds and he played several clips with and without back surrounds and the difference was immense. i felt the back surrounds added substantial scale on the back of my head. It enveloped the space behind me and felt amazing.

When i heard the same scenes with out back surrounds it just empty behind and a huge gap. The room of my width and my friends width is same of i suppose i can get similar results in my HT.

1. I have PSB Image S5 for side surrounds. Now i'm in a dilemma. I wonder which speaker will be a better option for back surround ? Should i go with another pair of S5 or should i go for Monopole B5 or B5 ?

2. Also should the back surrounds be installed at the same height as the side surrounds or higher/lower ?

Thanks & Regards,

Rana

I'm curious a little bit more of these setups and which clips you checked out.

Which speakers and receiver did your friend have?

To help you with your first question/dilemma, Big Daddy already created a sticky on that same subject.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/speakers/1...s-part-ii.html

[rana_kirti]

Hi Hamp,

The AVR was the Yamaha V3067 also known as the A3000 in USA. The front speakers were custom made towers with a custom made center and custom made bipole surrounds.

The back surrounds, Front Presence + Rear Presence were Bose outdoor speakers.

So he's newly setup hs Yamaha RX V3067 with 10.2 speaker setup. So besides the regular 5.1 there were 2 front height, a center back surround and 2 Rear height.

He played the movie Signs. He played a lot of scenes in which involved a lot of information in the surrounds. This is where the Rear Presence Height speakers truly shined. They created this superb environment and ambiance. It gave a feeling of being in a much larger space with distinct effects and sound coming out of the Rear Height speakers which acoustics had placed at the top corner of the room on either side.

I've heard many demos of home theater systems and have heard a lot of excellent demo with the surround material from side surrounds but the Rear Presence Height is just on another level. I've never heard or experienced anything like it in my life. It created this amazing sound field during the movie and me and my brother felt we were actually inside the movie with the on screen characters. It was amazing.

That scene where the the winds was blowing and the dogs were barking it felt if i was in the crop circle and the wind was blowing around and above me and it sent chills down my spine....

That scene where the actors were looking up at the roof from outside the house because they thought something was on the roof, it felt like there was actually someone walking over over acoustic's roof. That was a incredible experience and gave me goose bumps.

I wonder how Yamaha calculates and processes which sound to send to the Rear Presence Height but it results in a fantastic effect. You have to hear it to believe it. It's just amazing.

You have to hear it to believe it. You must take a chance to check out what the Rear Presence Height can do. It'll change the way you perceive home cinema.

I was keen on waiting for the new AVRs with DTS Neo X. but that does not have Rear Presence Height. So now i'm keen on the Yamaha RX V3067/A3000.

Cheers,

Rana

[crazyBLUE]

I have a question for you Big Daddy !

Up until the other day my Surround rears were at the same height as the surrounds. With the new configuration of my stand they are lower. I plan on building boxes at work to add to the stand to raise them back up to being even with the surrounds again.

I have seen other people have the surrounds & surround rears offset from each other in height. Would it be better to have the surround rears higher or even lower then the surrounds ?

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

I have a question for you Big Daddy !

Up until the other day my Surround rears were at the same height as the surrounds. With the new configuration of my stand they are lower. I plan on building boxes at work to add to the stand to raise them back up to being even with the surrounds again.

I have seen other people have the surrounds & surround rears offset from each other in height. Would it be better to have the surround rears higher or even lower then the surrounds ?

This question was addressed in post #1 of https://forum.blu-ray.com/speakers/1...s-part-ii.html. You owe me two cents.

How High Should the Surround Speakers Be Installed?

The side surround and rear surround speakers should normally be installed at the same height and about 2 to 3 feet above ear levels when you are sitting down. They should not be installed too far above the ear level. Otherwise, coherence of the front to the surround field is lost. Unfortunately, in many cases, people have to place the surround speakers too high because of space limitations in their rooms.

Ideally, all the surround speakers should be at the same height and a few feet above the head when you are sitting down. If you can't do it that way, it is no big deal. We all live in less than ideal rooms and have to make compromises.

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

This question was addressed in post #1 of https://forum.blu-ray.com/speakers/1...s-part-ii.html. You owe me two cents.


Ideally, all the surround speakers should be at the same height and a few feet above the head when you are sitting down. If you can't do it that way, it is no big deal. We all live in less than ideal rooms and have to make compromises.

Then I guess they will be back to the same height as before then. I guess I should have looked before asking

[Indyjones]

I finally have my new Klipsch Reference II system coming, the surrounds being bipolar. I will be running the system in 5.2, with the surrounds being mounted on the side walls(or should I go on the back walls?). When measuring the height of the placement, are you measuring up to the bottom of the speaker cabinet, middle of the driver, or tweeter? How far back behind the listening position should they be placed? The sofa will be about 2ft or more away from the back wall, so that's how much room I will have to work with, because of a window on one of the walls.

Also, my room isn't that huge, about 14' x 14', maybe alittle less. Would it be overkill to move up to 7.2 in that size room? My receiver is 7.1, but have been running it in 5.1.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Indyjones

I finally have my new Klipsch Reference II system coming, the surrounds being bipolar. I will be running the system in 5.2, with the surrounds being mounted on the side walls(or should I go on the back walls?). When measuring the height of the placement, are you measuring up to the bottom of the speaker cabinet, middle of the driver, or tweeter? How far back behind the listening position should they be placed? The sofa will be about 2ft or more away from the back wall, so that's how much room I will have to work with, because of a window on one of the walls.

Also, my room isn't that huge, about 14' x 14', maybe alittle less. Would it be overkill to move up to 7.2 in that size room? My receiver is 7.1, but have been running it in 5.1.

There is no such thing as overkill. Install the current two bipole surround speakers on the side walls and buy another two and install them on the rear wall.

If you decide to go 5.1, install them on the side walls, but slightly to the rear of the listening sofa.

It appears that your room is square. Avoid sitting exactly in the middle of the room as you will hear no bass. That is where the low frequency waves cancel each other and create a big null.

The 2 feet rule for installing the surround speakers is an approximation rule. Home theater is not an exact science. Normally, you measure the distance from the middle of the speakers. A few inches higher or lower is not a deal breaker.

[Indyjones]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

There is no such thing as overkill. Install the current two bipole surround speakers on the side walls and buy another two and install them on the rear wall.

If you decide to go 5.1, install them on the side walls, but slightly to the rear of the listening sofa.

It appears that your room is square. Avoid sitting exactly in the middle of the room as you will hear no bass. That is where the low frequency waves cancel each other and create a big null.

The 2 feet rule for installing the surround speakers is an approximation rule. Home theater is not an exact science. Normally, you measure the distance from the middle of the speakers. A few inches higher or lower is not a deal breaker.

Well then it looks like I'm going 7.2 at some point then! It will be awhile though, I just blew all of my money on the new Klipsch's, blu-ray player, power conditioner, subdudes, new cables/wires and a sofa. So hopefully be the end of the year...

[Indyjones]

I think I wanna make the jump to 7.2 now, if I can come up with the cash for the extra surrounds. Will that setup work with the sofa about 20" away from the wall? Is that buffer zone enough for the rears? The only thing I'm concerned with is the side surrounds, because if I put them just behind the sofa at that distance from the wall, they'll be about 1ft away from the back wall. I really can't move the sofa up too much more, because of the window, and I don't want to end up sitting in the middle of the room.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Indyjones

I think I wanna make the jump to 7.2 now, if I can come up with the cash for the extra surrounds. Will that setup work with the sofa about 20" away from the wall? Is that buffer zone enough for the rears? The only thing I'm concerned with is the side surrounds, because if I put them just behind the sofa at that distance from the wall, they'll be about 1ft away from the back wall. I really can't move the sofa up too much more, because of the window, and I don't want to end up sitting in the middle of the room.

You basically have three options:

1. 5.1 Setup: You can install the side surround speakers on the side walls to the sides of your listening sofa so that they are on the same line or slightly behind you.
   
   
2. 5.1 Setup: You can install two surround speakers on the rear wall behind your sofa. Make sure they are pointed toward the front of the room and not pointed toward your head.
   
   
3. 7.1 Setup: You can install two side surround speakers on the side walls slightly to the front of your listening sofa and two rear surround speakers on the rear wall. If the side surround speakers are bipolar, they will have drivers pointing in two different directions and even if they are installed slightly to the front of your sofa, you should be ok. Make sure the side surround speakers are facing each other and the two rear surround speakers are facing toward the front of the room. Don’t point them toward your head.
   
   Alternatively, you can install two side surround speakers on the side walls and put two rear surround speakers on tall speaker stands on both sides of your sofa. Make sure they are pointed toward the front of the room.

[Indyjones]

Thanks as always, Big Daddy, it looks like I'm good. Now, to rake up those funds.......

[Clueless Joe]

Guys, I need some help upgrading my side surrounds in my 5.1 system. I currently am using Polk RM 95's for surrounds. I need a stand mountable surround as my wife wont allow me to attach speakers to the wall of our living room. Any ideas for a reasonably priced replacement speaker. Procinema 800's, Mirage Nanosats?? What do you think?