A Guide to Bipolar, Dipolar, & Direct-Radiating Monopole Surround Speakers (PART I) - Page 18 - Blu-ray Forum

cyde · 02-06-2012, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

You will probably be ok with 4-ohm surround speakers, but why take the risk. Buy another brand with 8-ohm impedance.

Yeah, I called the deal off yesterday. The more I thought about it, the more uneasy I felt running 4 ohm speakers without a high end receiver. Like you said it's not worth the risk. Especially if I'm pushing reference volume for action movies.

I talked to Jessica over at Polk, and they can sell me a refurbed pair of FXi A4s for $270 shipped ($60 cheaper than Amazon). I will probably go that route. The FXi A6s were $320 if anyone is interested. I was told they come with a 6 month warranty.

Fidi · 08-19-2012, 01:56 AM

Big daddy..I have read your interesting publication but have i few questions cause i dont wrily know whos advise im going to take..

My question and my problem is;
For a 7.1 setup..isn't monopole-bipole 7.1 surround sound setup the best?

What you say is very logical.
For most of the houses logical its more pratice to use for a 7.1 setup, bipole-bipole surround sound setup..because most of the living room are not very spacious for using monopole surround speakers etc.

But.
Dolby says to use 7 full range identical speakers (all monopole) in a home theather for a good surround sound.
Dolby says, ich speaker has his role that's why its beter to use monopole speakers.
-->I dont want to go for this setup.

-->My problem lies in your phylosofy and thx philosofy. My problem lies on the back surround speakers in a 7.1 setup.

THX says; like dolby that ich speaker in a home theatre has his own role.
THX says; for a good 7.1 setup for movie( for home theatre)..monopole-bipole 7.1 surround sound setup is the best.
Link: http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-ent...peaker-set-up/

THX:
'Surround Left & Right Speakers (SL & SR): Place the SL & SR speakers between 90° to 110° to each side and 2 feet or higher above the listener. The SL & SR speakers recreate the enveloping sound and intense special effects that you experience in the cinema.'
--> Surround left and right are bipole/dipole..this is ok for me because you say to use bipole/dipole and thx engineers also.

My problem lies here
'Surround Back Left & Right Speakers (SBL & SBR)*: The SBL & SBR speakers should be the direct firing type and placed together on the back wall. This allows the THX Advanced Speaker Array, or ASA technology to deliver its maximum effect. If the SBL and the SBR speakers can not be placed together, refer to your THX Certified Pre-amplifier or Receiver’s “THX Set Up” menu for alternative configurations.'

For THX, surround back speakers should be monopole speakers. They recommend monopole because of the role that these speaker play in a movie.
The role is to give the surround sound more effect(maximum effect) and for a maximume effect its better to use monopole speaker because its more precise.
For THX the 2 bipole/dipole speakers on the side are enough to give enough diffuse surround effect.
Link: http://www.thx.com/consumer/thx-tech...d-sound-modes/
link 2: http://www.thx.com/consumer/thx-tech...iver-features/

The role of back surround speakers by dolby: provide a more 'intense' surround experience by enabling enhaced localization of sound effects.

Dolby engineers also recommend monopole speakers for back surround in a 7.1.
'2 big interprizes that are agree wiht each other(thx and dolby).'

So my problem is whos advise will i have to take?yours or thx engineers?

Can you help me and give me a few advises.

-------------

I have now a 5.1 setup..3 front identical(center + front speakers, all monopole) speakers and 2 side bipole surround speakers.
Its sounds very great but want to upgrade in a 7.1 speaker setup.

I have never tried a 7.1 setup with bipole side/ and bipole back(surround speakers setup).
And i have also never tried bipole side/and monopole speaker back(surround speakers setup)

If you have ever tested this can you give me and idea how its sound.
Advantages and disavantages.
In your publication, you gave it a 'very good' score..but you gave bipole side/bipole back(surround setup), excellent as score..Why 'verry good'?

I hope that you could understand my english..i dont speak english verry well.

Thank u.

MikeCL · 09-02-2012, 02:39 AM

Question.. I was going to do a bi-pole in my bedroom My only options are to place the bi-pole speakers on the side walls right in-line with me?

Or should I place them over my viewing area (my bed) I have about maybe 4-5 Ft I could go

Big Daddy · 09-02-2012, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeCL

Question.. I was going to do a bi-pole in my bedroom My only options are to place the bi-pole speakers on the side walls right in-line with me?

Or should I place them over my viewing area (my bed) I have about maybe 4-5 Ft I could go

Bipole surround speakers are pretty flexible. Ideally, you should install them slighlty behind you on the side walls and slightly above your head when you are sitting down. However, you can install them on the same line as your main seat and still get good results. Bipole speakers can also work on the rear wall behind you.

Before you make the final installation, put them on two tall chairs and experiment and decide which position you like the best. If you don't have tall chairs, stack a whole bunch of books on top of the chairs and put the speakers on top of the books.

MikeCL · 09-02-2012, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Bipole surround speakers are pretty flexible. Ideally, you should install them slighlty behind you on the side walls and slightly above your head when you are sitting down. However, you can install them on the same line as your main seat and still get good results. Bipole speakers can also work on the rear wall behind you.

Before you make the final installation, put them on two tall chairs and experiment and decide which position you like the best. If you don't have tall chairs, stack a whole bunch of books on top of the chairs and put the speakers on top of the books.

Yeah the slightly behind wont work since the bed is already against the wall.. I was thinking the side wall.. but here is the thing the placement on the wall would have the speaker kinda firing into a corner, and if not really so it surly must have some effect on the sound.

Big Daddy · 09-02-2012, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeCL

Yeah the slightly behind wont work since the bed is already against the wall.. I was thinking the side wall.. but here is the thing the placement on the wall would have the speaker kinda firing into a corner, and if not really so it surly must have some effect on the sound.

You can also hang them from the ceiling. My two front height speakers and the two rear surround speakers are attached to the ceiling with ceiling brackets.

If you are going to attach them too close to the corners of the room, it will be best if you attach them at a 45 degree angle like I have demonstrated in Post #1.

JOMV · 09-14-2012, 05:36 AM

BD, I'm new to this forum. Forgive me if I should have posted this elsewhere.

Without a doubt, this has been one of the best threads I have read in a long time. BIG DADDY, my respects for your patience and dedication. I haven't seen one repeat the same stuff again and again without loosing composure. After reading it, I can now say, I finally found a place where I can find the answers I was looking for. So, I decided to join the forum and make good use of your knowledge. I live in Puerto Rico, and we don't have many places to go in order to get help on this type of hobby. So, I trust this is the right and only place to try it. Here is my story (it is a long and boring one, but I trust you will help me the same way you helped everybody else).

I have been working on a HT project for several months and I'm finally finishing it. I bought a Denon AVR-2312ci and Infinity's Primus P363 floorstanding towers & *the Primus PC351 center. I have a MTX 12" amplified subwoofer. I also bought some foam acoustics.*

As a side note: I just moved to a new apartment which has a room that I can dedicate to a HT. This room is 11' long x 10' wide x 9' feet tall. It has a huge amount of reflection/echo. But, maybe that is better asked in another thread. It just to give you a better understanding of the room. I will also show you some drawings later on this post.

I drew some sketches in Paint (I hope you can see/open all of them) - (and yes, I used Paint because I don't have any other program right now) - to have an idea of what would be the outcome of my ideas. Here are some pictures of those drawings and the changes I had to make during the process and at the last moment.

First, I started drawing how I wanted the hole system to look like. Designed 2 separate furnitures with shelves according to my equipment and their sizes.

This is the first drawing I made:

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...HTPattern9.jpg
**

Then, I bought these acoustics I for the room:

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...w/IMAG1911.jpg

This is how it looks like right now with the front wall completely covered with acoustic foam. (Also made in Paint)

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...dMainWall2.jpg

I have been talking to a guy from another forum, who has been kind enough to give me some pointers about speaker/acoustics placement, and, now I decided to get rid of the 2 furnitures and go with 2 separate adjustable shelves in order to get better sound from the room. We believe this will help sound acoustic, and also make it more spacious.*

Here is how it should look when finished: (But with the acoustic wall foam layout shown on the 3rd picture)

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...w/IMAG2126.jpg

Ok, now that almost everything is set, I need to take care of 2 issues:

1) Surround speakers selection & placement. (5.1 setup)
*** This is where I need your help ****

2) Acoustic foam placement for the rest of the room.*

Ok, back to issue #1. Take a look at the following drawing (yes, made in paint again):

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...F6FB20AAF9.jpg

Look at options "A" & "B".......
According to what I have learned on this thread, and with what other people have suggested, I can go with bipole speakers if I stay with option "A" in order to get the best diffused surround sound/environment - (that *is my current one right now with monople speakers).*

My other option is to go with dipoles if going for option "B".*

My main issue, is that my couch is against the back wall and I can only put the surrounds at those positions - the corners (which is option "A" - my current position), or on the sides (which is option "B") - (both at 7 feet). The door is just under the left surround.

Just to decide once and for all......*

1-a) Which one is my best option, bipole or dipole?

1-b) In "A" or "B"?

2) How to install them knowing I can't move the couch forward and also to be able to be at the null spot?... I know that not being able yo move the couch will complicate bass management later when setting the sound.

3) Any brand or model suggestion under $400?

All suggestions/help will be greatly appreciated.

JOMV · 09-14-2012, 05:51 AM

BD, I'm new to this forum and this is my very first post. Please, forgive me if I should have posted it elsewhere.

Without a doubt, this has been one of the best threads I have read in a long time. BIG DADDY, my respects for your patience and dedication. I haven't seen one repeat the same stuff again and again without loosing composure. After reading it, I can now say, I finally found a place where I can find the answers I was looking for. So, I decided to join the forum and make good use of your knowledge. I live in Puerto Rico, and we don't have many places to go in order to get help on this type of hobby. So, I trust this is the right and only place to try it. Here is my story (it is a long and boring one, but I trust you will help me the same way you helped everybody else).

I have been working on a HT project for several months and I'm finally finishing it. I bought a Denon AVR-2312ci and Infinity's Primus P363 floorstanding towers & the Primus PC351 center. I have a MTX 12" amplified subwoofer. I also bought some foam acoustics.

As a side note: I just moved to a new apartment which has a room that I can dedicate to a HT. This room is 11' long x 10' wide x 9' feet tall. It has a huge amount of reflection/echo. But, maybe that is better asked in another thread. It just to give you a better understanding of the room. I will also show you some drawings later on this post.

I drew some sketches in Paint (I hope you can see/open all of them) - (and yes, I used Paint because I don't have any other program right now) - to have an idea of what would be the outcome of my ideas. Here are some pictures of those drawings and the changes I had to make during the process and at the last moment.

First, I started drawing how I wanted the hole system to look like. Designed 2 separate furnitures with shelves according to my equipment and their sizes.

This is the first drawing I made:

Then, I bought these acoustics I for the room:

This is how it looks like right now with the front wall completely covered with acoustic foam. (Also made in Paint)

I have been talking to a guy from another forum, who has been kind enough to give me some pointers about speaker/acoustics placement, and, now I decided to get rid of the 2 furnitures and go with 2 separate adjustable shelves in order to get better sound from the room. We believe this will help sound acoustic, and also make it more spacious.

Here is how it should look when finished: (But with the acoustic wall foam layout shown on the 3rd picture)

Ok, now that almost everything is set, I need to take care of 2 issues:

1) Surround speakers selection & placement. (5.1 setup)
*** This is where I need your help ****

2) Acoustic foam placement for the rest of the room.

Ok, back to issue #1. Take a look at the following drawing (yes, made in paint again):

Look at options "A" & "B".......
According to what I have learned on this thread, and with what other people have suggested, I can go with bipole speakers if I stay with option "A" in order to get the best diffused surround sound/environment - (that *is my current one right now with monople speakers).

My other option is to go with dipoles if going for option "B".

My main issue, is that my couch is against the back wall and I can only put the surrounds at those positions - the corners (which is option "A" - my current position), or on the sides (which is option "B") - (both at 7 feet). The door is just under the left surround.

Just to decide once and for all......

1-a) Which one is my best option, bipole or dipole?

1-b) In "A" or "B"?

2) How to install them knowing I can't move the couch forward and also to be able to be at the null spot?... I know that not being able yo move the couch will complicate bass management later when setting the sound.

3) Any brand or model suggestion under $400?

All suggestions/help will be greatly appreciated.

Big Daddy · 09-14-2012, 08:17 AM

JOMV,

First of all, I would like to congratulate you for spending so much time and effort in building such a nice home theater.

If you haven't read Part II of Bipole/Dipoe Surround speakers, you should do so.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=170720

In that thread, I have explained in detail advantages and disadvantages of different types of setups and speakers. As a general rule, you will have more flexibility in placing bipole surround speakers. Dipole surround speakers in a 5.1 setup give you the best results if you are sitting in their null spot.

Therefore, my suggestion in your case is to buy bipole surround speakers and position them in the corners or side walls. If you decide to position them in the corners (Option A), make sure you install them at a 45 degree angle like the following diagram.

After you have positioned your speakers, make sure you run the auto setup program inside your receiver so that the sound level from all your speakers are approximately the same at your primary listening position.

JOMV · 09-14-2012, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

JOMV,

First of all, I would like to congratulate you for spending so much time and effort in building such a nice home theater.

If you haven't read Part II of Bipole/Dipoe Surround speakers, you should do so.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=170720

In that thread, I have explained in detail advantages and disadvantages of different types of setups and speakers. As a general rule, you will have more flexibility in placing bipole surround speakers. Dipole surround speakers in a 5.1 setup give you the best results if you are sitting in their null spot.

Therefore, my suggestion in your case is to buy bipole surround speakers and position them in the corners or side walls. If you decide to position them in the corners (Option A), make sure you install them at a 45 degree angle like the following diagram.

After you have positioned your speakers, make sure you run the auto setup program inside your receiver so that the sound level from all your speakers are approximately the same at your primary listening position.

Thanks for the quick reply. I just realized I forgot to tell you and also draw the two front height speakers. Maybe they will benefit some movie experiences when the movie format allows me to use them. I was reading, I got more and more convinced that bipoles are the way to go considering my room and listening position. So, is it ok to put them at 7 feet and at a 45 degree angle knowing that one of the sides will be facing to the listening position?. Maybe they will be close to 1 foot behind my head when I sit on the couch.

JOMV · 09-15-2012, 04:37 AM

Am I posting in the wrong thread?. I tried to post a reply and it does not appear.

Big Daddy · 09-15-2012, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOMV

Am I posting in the wrong thread?. I tried to post a reply and it does not appear.

Because you are a new member, your posts have to be approved. Go ahead and post your comment again and I will approve it.

JOMV · 09-15-2012, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Because you are a new member, your posts have to be approved. Go ahead and post your comment again and I will approve it.

Thanks for letting me know. Many thanks.

I really don't know if this is the correct thread to ask, but I'm doing it because I have seen many other solving their issues. Now back to my issue.

I just notice that I forgot to draw and tell you about the two front height speakers I have on the front. Maybe they will benefit some movie experiences when the movie format allows me to use them. As I was reading your threads, I got more and more convinced that bipoles are the way to go considering my room and listening position.

So, my questions are:
1) Is it ok to put them at 7 feet in the corners and at a 45 degree angle knowing that one of the sides of each surround speaker will be facing almost directly to the listening position?.

Maybe they will be firing close to 1 foot behind my head when I sit on the couch and from seven feet.

2) Will I need go angle them down a little?.
I recall you told one of the guys it was not necessary in his setup. But I'm asking because my speakers are 7 feet high.

I don't like to be bothering this much, but here in Puerto Rico we don't have many places to look for help. Hopefully some people with situations like mine will benefit from this.

Thanks!

Big Daddy · 09-16-2012, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOMV

Thanks for letting me know. Many thanks.

I really don't know if this is the correct thread to ask, but I'm doing it because I have seen many other solving their issues. Now back to my issue.

I just notice that I forgot to draw and tell you about the two front height speakers I have on the front. Maybe they will benefit some movie experiences when the movie format allows me to use them. As I was reading your threads, I got more and more convinced that bipoles are the way to go considering my room and listening position.

So, my questions are:
1) Is it ok to put them at 7 feet in the corners and at a 45 degree angle knowing that one of the sides of each surround speaker will be facing almost directly to the listening position?.

Maybe they will be firing close to 1 foot behind my head when I sit on the couch and from seven feet.

2) Will I need go angle them down a little?.
I recall you told one of the guys it was not necessary in his setup. But I'm asking because my speakers are 7 feet high.

I don't like to be bothering this much, but here in Puerto Rico we don't have many places to look for help. Hopefully some people with situations like mine will benefit from this.

Thanks!

If you room is not a standard rectangular shape or your listening position is not in an ideal position, bipole surround speakers are more appropriate than dipole surround speakers.

As a general rule for movies, you should not angle the surround speakers toward your head in the listening position. Even if you use monopole surround speakers, direct them toward the room (front speakers) and not toward the listening position.

I suggest that before you completely finalize the position of the surround speakers, run a few experiments and decide which you like the best.

Finally, you should not use bipole/dipole speakers for front height speakers. For front height and width speakers, use only monopole direct-radiating speakers.

MikeCL · 09-16-2012, 01:30 AM

^ Thanks for that tip, what if say your screen is wider then the area you are sitting? Still have them just facing the room? I did this to my rear surrounds and it sounds better then having them pointed at me.

I can't wait to try the bipolar surrounds.

Big Daddy · 09-16-2012, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeCL

^ Thanks for that tip, what if say your screen is wider then the area you are sitting? Still have them just facing the room? I did this to my rear surrounds and it sounds better then having them pointed at me.

I can't wait to try the bipolar surrounds.

For movies, the surround speakers should not draw attention to themseleve. They are mainly for special effects and ambience.

However, for multi-channel music, monopole speakers that are directed toward you may be more appropriate.

MikeCL · 09-16-2012, 01:37 AM

Yeah I ended up aiming the monopoles for the rear surrounds facing the front and it sounds better as far as ambient sounds and stuff in movies.

JOMV · 09-16-2012, 04:33 AM

After reading part II, I feel confident about going with dipoles. I guess I will try them as you told me with a 45 degree angle. The bad part is that they will be at 7 feet because the door runs just under the left surround. Now it is just a matter of finding the best surround speakers for under $400 and a something to attach them to the corners. Thanks BD!!!

Big Daddy · 09-16-2012, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOMV

After reading part II, I feel confident about going with dipoles. I guess I will try them as you told me with a 45 degree angle. The bad part is that they will be at 7 feet because the door runs just under the left surround. Now it is just a matter of finding the best surround speakers for under $400 and a something to attach them to the corners. Thanks BD!!!

Did you mean bipoles?

I prepared the following list a long time ago. It is possible that some of the links may be dead.

Bipole and Dipole Surround Speaker Manufacturers

JOMV · 09-16-2012, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

Did you mean bipoles?

I prepared the following list a long time ago. It is possible that some of the links may be dead.

Bipole and Dipole Surround Speaker Manufacturers

You are right, I meant bipoles. I'll buy dipoles when I move to a bigger place and be able to go 7.2. I'll take a look at that list. Thanks BD!

09-02-2012, 02:39 AM	#343
MikeCL Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Sep 2011 Location:Connecticut 4K collection:3 Blu-ray collection:182 Trading Score:2	Question.. I was going to do a bi-pole in my bedroom My only options are to place the bi-pole speakers on the side walls right in-line with me? Or should I place them over my viewing area (my bed) I have about maybe 4-5 Ft I could go Last edited by MikeCL; 09-02-2012 at 02:42 AM.

09-14-2012, 05:36 AM	#347
JOMV Member Member since:Sep 2012 Location:Puerto Rico	BD, I'm new to this forum. Forgive me if I should have posted this elsewhere. Without a doubt, this has been one of the best threads I have read in a long time. BIG DADDY, my respects for your patience and dedication. I haven't seen one repeat the same stuff again and again without loosing composure. After reading it, I can now say, I finally found a place where I can find the answers I was looking for. So, I decided to join the forum and make good use of your knowledge. I live in Puerto Rico, and we don't have many places to go in order to get help on this type of hobby. So, I trust this is the right and only place to try it. Here is my story (it is a long and boring one, but I trust you will help me the same way you helped everybody else). I have been working on a HT project for several months and I'm finally finishing it. I bought a Denon AVR-2312ci and Infinity's Primus P363 floorstanding towers & the Primus PC351 center. I have a MTX 12" amplified subwoofer. I also bought some foam acoustics. As a side note: I just moved to a new apartment which has a room that I can dedicate to a HT. This room is 11' long x 10' wide x 9' feet tall. It has a huge amount of reflection/echo. But, maybe that is better asked in another thread. It just to give you a better understanding of the room. I will also show you some drawings later on this post. I drew some sketches in Paint (I hope you can see/open all of them) - (and yes, I used Paint because I don't have any other program right now) - to have an idea of what would be the outcome of my ideas. Here are some pictures of those drawings and the changes I had to make during the process and at the last moment. First, I started drawing how I wanted the hole system to look like. Designed 2 separate furnitures with shelves according to my equipment and their sizes. This is the first drawing I made: http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...HTPattern9.jpg ** Then, I bought these acoustics I for the room: http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...w/IMAG1911.jpg This is how it looks like right now with the front wall completely covered with acoustic foam. (Also made in Paint) http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...dMainWall2.jpg I have been talking to a guy from another forum, who has been kind enough to give me some pointers about speaker/acoustics placement, and, now I decided to get rid of the 2 furnitures and go with 2 separate adjustable shelves in order to get better sound from the room. We believe this will help sound acoustic, and also make it more spacious.* Here is how it should look when finished: (But with the acoustic wall foam layout shown on the 3rd picture) http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...w/IMAG2126.jpg Ok, now that almost everything is set, I need to take care of 2 issues: 1) Surround speakers selection & placement. (5.1 setup) * This is where I need your help ** 2) Acoustic foam placement for the rest of the room.* Ok, back to issue #1. Take a look at the following drawing (yes, made in paint again): http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...F6FB20AAF9.jpg Look at options "A" & "B"....... According to what I have learned on this thread, and with what other people have suggested, I can go with bipole speakers if I stay with option "A" in order to get the best diffused surround sound/environment - (that is my current one right now with monople speakers). My other option is to go with dipoles if going for option "B".* My main issue, is that my couch is against the back wall and I can only put the surrounds at those positions - the corners (which is option "A" - my current position), or on the sides (which is option "B") - (both at 7 feet). The door is just under the left surround. Just to decide once and for all......* 1-a) Which one is my best option, bipole or dipole? 1-b) In "A" or "B"? 2) How to install them knowing I can't move the couch forward and also to be able to be at the null spot?... I know that not being able yo move the couch will complicate bass management later when setting the sound. 3) Any brand or model suggestion under $400? All suggestions/help will be greatly appreciated. Last edited by JOMV; 09-14-2012 at 05:43 AM.

09-14-2012, 05:51 AM	#348
JOMV Member Member since:Sep 2012 Location:Puerto Rico	BD, I'm new to this forum and this is my very first post. Please, forgive me if I should have posted it elsewhere. Without a doubt, this has been one of the best threads I have read in a long time. BIG DADDY, my respects for your patience and dedication. I haven't seen one repeat the same stuff again and again without loosing composure. After reading it, I can now say, I finally found a place where I can find the answers I was looking for. So, I decided to join the forum and make good use of your knowledge. I live in Puerto Rico, and we don't have many places to go in order to get help on this type of hobby. So, I trust this is the right and only place to try it. Here is my story (it is a long and boring one, but I trust you will help me the same way you helped everybody else). I have been working on a HT project for several months and I'm finally finishing it. I bought a Denon AVR-2312ci and Infinity's Primus P363 floorstanding towers & the Primus PC351 center. I have a MTX 12" amplified subwoofer. I also bought some foam acoustics. As a side note: I just moved to a new apartment which has a room that I can dedicate to a HT. This room is 11' long x 10' wide x 9' feet tall. It has a huge amount of reflection/echo. But, maybe that is better asked in another thread. It just to give you a better understanding of the room. I will also show you some drawings later on this post. I drew some sketches in Paint (I hope you can see/open all of them) - (and yes, I used Paint because I don't have any other program right now) - to have an idea of what would be the outcome of my ideas. Here are some pictures of those drawings and the changes I had to make during the process and at the last moment. First, I started drawing how I wanted the hole system to look like. Designed 2 separate furnitures with shelves according to my equipment and their sizes. This is the first drawing I made: Then, I bought these acoustics I for the room: This is how it looks like right now with the front wall completely covered with acoustic foam. (Also made in Paint) I have been talking to a guy from another forum, who has been kind enough to give me some pointers about speaker/acoustics placement, and, now I decided to get rid of the 2 furnitures and go with 2 separate adjustable shelves in order to get better sound from the room. We believe this will help sound acoustic, and also make it more spacious. Here is how it should look when finished: (But with the acoustic wall foam layout shown on the 3rd picture) Ok, now that almost everything is set, I need to take care of 2 issues: 1) Surround speakers selection & placement. (5.1 setup) * This is where I need your help ** 2) Acoustic foam placement for the rest of the room. Ok, back to issue #1. Take a look at the following drawing (yes, made in paint again): Look at options "A" & "B"....... According to what I have learned on this thread, and with what other people have suggested, I can go with bipole speakers if I stay with option "A" in order to get the best diffused surround sound/environment - (that is my current one right now with monople speakers). My other option is to go with dipoles if going for option "B". My main issue, is that my couch is against the back wall and I can only put the surrounds at those positions - the corners (which is option "A" - my current position), or on the sides (which is option "B") - (both at 7 feet). The door is just under the left surround. Just to decide once and for all...... 1-a) Which one is my best option, bipole or dipole? 1-b) In "A" or "B"? 2) How to install them knowing I can't move the couch forward and also to be able to be at the null spot?... I know that not being able yo move the couch will complicate bass management later when setting the sound. 3) Any brand or model suggestion under $400? All suggestions/help will be greatly appreciated. Last edited by JOMV; 09-14-2012 at 05:58 AM.*

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08-19-2012, 01:56 AM	#342
Fidi Junior Member Member since:Aug 2012	Big daddy..I have read your interesting publication but have i few questions cause i dont wrily know whos advise im going to take.. My question and my problem is; For a 7.1 setup..isn't monopole-bipole 7.1 surround sound setup the best? What you say is very logical. For most of the houses logical its more pratice to use for a 7.1 setup, bipole-bipole surround sound setup..because most of the living room are not very spacious for using monopole surround speakers etc. But. Dolby says to use 7 full range identical speakers (all monopole) in a home theather for a good surround sound. Dolby says, ich speaker has his role that's why its beter to use monopole speakers. -->I dont want to go for this setup. -->My problem lies in your phylosofy and thx philosofy. My problem lies on the back surround speakers in a 7.1 setup. THX says; like dolby that ich speaker in a home theatre has his own role. THX says; for a good 7.1 setup for movie( for home theatre)..monopole-bipole 7.1 surround sound setup is the best. Link: http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-ent...peaker-set-up/ THX: 'Surround Left & Right Speakers (SL & SR): Place the SL & SR speakers between 90° to 110° to each side and 2 feet or higher above the listener. The SL & SR speakers recreate the enveloping sound and intense special effects that you experience in the cinema.' --> Surround left and right are bipole/dipole..this is ok for me because you say to use bipole/dipole and thx engineers also. My problem lies here 'Surround Back Left & Right Speakers (SBL & SBR)*: The SBL & SBR speakers should be the direct firing type and placed together on the back wall. This allows the THX Advanced Speaker Array, or ASA technology to deliver its maximum effect. If the SBL and the SBR speakers can not be placed together, refer to your THX Certified Pre-amplifier or Receiver’s “THX Set Up” menu for alternative configurations.' For THX, surround back speakers should be monopole speakers. They recommend monopole because of the role that these speaker play in a movie. The role is to give the surround sound more effect(maximum effect) and for a maximume effect its better to use monopole speaker because its more precise. For THX the 2 bipole/dipole speakers on the side are enough to give enough diffuse surround effect. Link: http://www.thx.com/consumer/thx-tech...d-sound-modes/ link 2: http://www.thx.com/consumer/thx-tech...iver-features/ The role of back surround speakers by dolby: provide a more 'intense' surround experience by enabling enhaced localization of sound effects. Dolby engineers also recommend monopole speakers for back surround in a 7.1. '2 big interprizes that are agree wiht each other(thx and dolby).' So my problem is whos advise will i have to take?yours or thx engineers? Can you help me and give me a few advises. ------------- I have now a 5.1 setup..3 front identical(center + front speakers, all monopole) speakers and 2 side bipole surround speakers. Its sounds very great but want to upgrade in a 7.1 speaker setup. I have never tried a 7.1 setup with bipole side/ and bipole back(surround speakers setup). And i have also never tried bipole side/and monopole speaker back(surround speakers setup) If you have ever tested this can you give me and idea how its sound. Advantages and disavantages. In your publication, you gave it a 'very good' score..but you gave bipole side/bipole back(surround setup), excellent as score..Why 'verry good'? I hope that you could understand my english..i dont speak english verry well. Thank u.

09-14-2012, 08:17 AM	#349
Big Daddy Blu-ray Champion Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jan 2008 Location:Southern California Home Theater Gallery:79 Blu-ray collection:122 Trading Score:1	JOMV, First of all, I would like to congratulate you for spending so much time and effort in building such a nice home theater. If you haven't read Part II of Bipole/Dipoe Surround speakers, you should do so. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=170720 In that thread, I have explained in detail advantages and disadvantages of different types of setups and speakers. As a general rule, you will have more flexibility in placing bipole surround speakers. Dipole surround speakers in a 5.1 setup give you the best results if you are sitting in their null spot. Therefore, my suggestion in your case is to buy bipole surround speakers and position them in the corners or side walls. If you decide to position them in the corners (Option A), make sure you install them at a 45 degree angle like the following diagram. After you have positioned your speakers, make sure you run the auto setup program inside your receiver so that the sound level from all your speakers are approximately the same at your primary listening position.

09-15-2012, 04:37 AM	#351
JOMV Member Member since:Sep 2012 Location:Puerto Rico	Am I posting in the wrong thread?. I tried to post a reply and it does not appear.

09-16-2012, 01:30 AM	#355
MikeCL Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Sep 2011 Location:Connecticut 4K collection:3 Blu-ray collection:182 Trading Score:2	^ Thanks for that tip, what if say your screen is wider then the area you are sitting? Still have them just facing the room? I did this to my rear surrounds and it sounds better then having them pointed at me. I can't wait to try the bipolar surrounds.

09-16-2012, 01:37 AM	#357
MikeCL Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Sep 2011 Location:Connecticut 4K collection:3 Blu-ray collection:182 Trading Score:2	Yeah I ended up aiming the monopoles for the rear surrounds facing the front and it sounds better as far as ambient sounds and stuff in movies.

09-16-2012, 04:33 AM	#358
JOMV Member Member since:Sep 2012 Location:Puerto Rico	After reading part II, I feel confident about going with dipoles. I guess I will try them as you told me with a 45 degree angle. The bad part is that they will be at 7 feet because the door runs just under the left surround. Now it is just a matter of finding the best surround speakers for under $400 and a something to attach them to the corners. Thanks BD!!!

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