Midnight Cowboy (1969)

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by ElliesDad

Please do get back when you've had an opportunity to look at this. I've had my finger poised over the 'process order' button for days, still trying to make up my mind whether or not the tint issue is likely to interfere with, to the point of spoiling, the viewing experience.

At what point did purchasing a blu-ray disc become so complicated? The "Howard's End" debacle seems to be becoming more and more the norm...what's happening to the concept of quality-control.

[Show spoiler] No answer expected...just ranting...

I played both discs at the same time (Suck it Caps a Holic!) with two TVs with roughly the same setups; Criterion is so good, in fact I think it looks a lot more "natural" than the MGM release (My clouds shouldn't be magneta MGM!). The whole "tint" thing, I believe, has been blown out of proportions. Getting up in arms about green lights in a DINNER is absurd. The opening is in rough shape with a lot of a Cyan push. Not to mention why would anyone want a "warm" looking picture for a film that's clearly set around Winter time. The bottom line: GET IT. It's the best this film has looked thus far.

[Fat Phil]

Originally Posted by Indiana Jonezzz...

I believe MGM generally used to master their catalogue films to look more balanced and “normal”, and very similar to each other, disregarding specifics such as director’s intent, and on set lighting like this example of fluorescent lighting, which affects the colour. That’s what I’ve read anyway, so this new Criterion, should ideally be far closer to how it originally was intended to look, but perhaps they’ve pushed the colour a little too far in places for some people.

Yup. It's a pretty safe bet that absolutely no reference was used when grading previous home video releases (from VHS to DVD to MGM's blu-ray). Criterion's release does have a clear lineage. People may not like it (and I don't begrudge anyone that - different strokes an all that) but the DoP was a transfer supervisor and (again), a 35mm print supervised by the Director/Producer and DoP was used as a reference for colour correction. Anyway, I will now yield the floor so someone can mention William Friedkin's botched supervision of the French Connection blu-ray.

[Kyle15]

Originally Posted by Fat Phil

Yup. It's a pretty safe bet that absolutely no reference was used when grading previous home video releases (from VHS to DVD to MGM's blu-ray). Criterion's release does have a clear lineage. People may not like it (and I don't begrudge anyone that - different strokes an all that) but the DoP was a transfer supervisor and (again), a 35mm print supervised by the Director/Producer and DoP was used as a reference for colour correction. Anyway, I will now yield the floor so someone can mention William Friedkin's botched supervision of the French Connection blu-ray.

Mention of William Friedkin's botched supervision of the French Connection blu-ray.

[Show spoiler]

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by Kyle15

Mention of William Friedkin's botched supervision of the French Connection blu-ray.

[Show spoiler]

[Show spoiler]Just kidding

[JoeBuck]

Originally Posted by PowellPressburger

Ok i put in my MGM disc watched the first few scenes esp that shot of The cook.

And also when Joe goes into the diner and in the back to talk to him.

Put in the Criterion and its sharper more defined / tighter

The ultimate is getting the original United Artists Transamerica opening logo

Ok ao the first insert of the cook is tinted not as drastic looking as I imagined it would ... when you do see him again when Joe goes to talk to him I did notice that NO above fluorescent lights were on at all! That scene didnt look as tinted and clearly shouldnt be.

Im sure once i watch it this weekend i will notice the NYC florescent lighting more so. But not buying it for the TX diner at all.

So i dont agree that the Criterion color correction is great, I dont buy it at all.

However the transfer itsslf looks great ... sometimes I wish I didnt care at all how movies should look haha

If you watch the shot of Ralph scraping all the junk into the garbage bin you can see the green glow of them illuminating it as well as on his shirt through that shot. That points to either two things: fluorescent lights or colour fading (which is apparent for a while through the first half hour).
It certainly doesnt appear as a blanket tint though as his shirt is still white aside from when hes moving through the kitchen.

[Stationary Explorer]

On a side note, did anyone else NOT get the pre-order guarantee price from Amazon? They charged me $39.95. I contacted them and they tell me they don't price match. I explain it's not price matching, it's the pre-order guarantee but nobody seems to understand the concept! Driving me NUTS! I'm on my third customer service person. Sheesh! I'll never pre-order anything again at this rate.

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by Stationary Explorer

On a side note, did anyone else NOT get the pre-order guarantee price from Amazon? They charged me $39.95. I contacted them and they tell me they don't price match. I explain it's not price matching, it's the pre-order guarantee but nobody seems to understand the concept! Driving me NUTS! I'm on my third customer service person. Sheesh! I'll never pre-order anything again at this rate.

I had plenty of store credit at Bullmoose so I only paid 3.40

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Stationary Explorer

On a side note, did anyone else NOT get the pre-order guarantee price from Amazon? They charged me $39.95. I contacted them and they tell me they don't price match. I explain it's not price matching, it's the pre-order guarantee but nobody seems to understand the concept! Driving me NUTS! I'm on my third customer service person. Sheesh! I'll never pre-order anything again at this rate.

Are you talking on the phone, or chatting? It's a pretty clear cut thing, so hopefully they adjust it in the end.

[Stationary Explorer]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Are you talking on the phone, or chatting? It's a pretty clear cut thing, so hopefully they adjust it in the end.

Chatting.

After three different reps I finally found one willing to give me a refund (even though she initially also told me Amazon doesn't "price match". Gah!).

Anyway, back to the disc. I watched it again in the bedroom last night and I must admit it looked better on that set than the one in the living room, so there does seem to be a delicate balance here between "blue hell" and just right. I've never had any other blu-rays rub me the wrong way on the living room tv, but then again not every blu-ray is of my very favorite film, so I'm ultra-sensitive.

In summary, I'm satisfied.... but I'll be watching it strictly in the bedroom moving forward, which seems like poetic justice. YEEEEEEEE-HOOOOOOO!

[SplitScreen]

Just got this the other day and watched it last night. I thought it looked fantastic. The best I've seen this film look. So filmic in places it's not funny. The grain is gorgeous and so well resolved. So much depth and detail and a really lovely textured appearance. I can't imagine an actual 4k version looking much better. Upscaled, it's gorgeous. Great film still. The ending always gets me and 10 or so years after last watching it, it got me all over again.

[yellowcakeuf6]

Originally Posted by SplitScreen

Just got this the other day and watched it last night. I thought it looked fantastic. The best I've seen this film look. So filmic in places it's not funny. The grain is gorgeous and so well resolved. So much depth and detail and a really lovely textured appearance. I can't imagine an actual 4k version looking much better. Upscaled, it's gorgeous. Great film still. The ending always gets me and 10 or so years after last watching it, it got me all over again.

Yep, and the color is accurate. The end.

[42041]

I have no idea how "accurate" it was, but I saw a pretty nice-looking 35mm print of Midnight Cowboy a few years back and it had quite a bit of cyan/teal. The look of this transfer is closer to that print than the old one.

[yellowcakeuf6]

Well, as is stated in the Criterion booklet, the Blu-ray is based on a 2004 print that was supervised by the Director, Producer and Cinematographer, and the 4K digital restoration was approved by the Cinematographer.
I saw it originally in the late 70s at a Museum of Art screening, and about 10 years ago in what I assume was the later print, and I thought the DVD looked like the sub-par video release that it is, so that was of no use. Having just viewed the Criterion, it looks as accurate to those prints I saw. The other home video releases should not be considered due to their age and technology. I'm just wondering, for those that are doubting the accuracy, where do they go from here?

[JohnCarpenterFan]

So they used a print approved by the director, DP and producer as reference and had the DP oversee the restoration. What's the problem? What were they supposed to do, disregard the print, tell the DP to **** off and then give it the same grade as the MGM so people who have a bizarre phobia of uncorrected fluorescents and stylish color timing won't have to leap behind their sofas whenever a fluorescent light pops up?

[English Patient]

I thought the transfer looked very, very good - the best it's looked on home video (I had the previous blu-ray, DVD and VHS tape). Nothing about it made me think this was some radical new color correction (no 'blanket tint' or anything like that).

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by JohnCarpenterFan

So they used a print approved by the director, DP and producer as reference and had the DP oversee the restoration. What's the problem? What were they supposed to do, disregard the print, tell the DP to **** off and then give it the same grade as the MGM so people who have a bizarre phobia of uncorrected fluorescents and stylish color timing won't have to leap behind their sofas whenever a fluorescent light pops up?

Apparently the so called "experts" use an old master, that usually had no input from anybody involved with a film, as a factual reference. The Criterion looks great. They seem to think that anything pre-00s can't have stylized coloring.

[yellowcakeuf6]

The complaints are an example of some preferring prior home videos releases, and never having seen this film projected, which is anyone's right, but the Criterion is accurate to the original look.

[The Sovereign]

It's good to see all of the positive feedback, even though I'm certain there are still differing opinions. I'm holding out for the B&N sale, but it's a foregone conclusion that I'll be buying it. Can barely wait!

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by yellowcakeuf6

The complaints are an example of some preferring prior home videos releases, and never having seen this film projected, which is anyone's right, but the Criterion is accurate to the original look.

I don’t mind people that prefer older home video releases (to be frank I quite like a lot of MGM B&W releases that have recieved later 4K masters such as The Apartment, The Manchurian Candidate and Rebecca). I hate it when people claim that new masters are “wrong”. We’re definitely not getting a “French Connection” ‘09 situation.

[RedHarvest]

Watched Midnight Cowboy last night. I have to say the transfer is very clean and precise. So enjoyable to watch it through Criterion. The sound was also very nice.