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Old 06-28-2020, 06:26 PM   #21
CrowKiller CrowKiller is online now
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The only thing I can really think of with 4x3 appeal anymore (as far as TVs) is for retro gaming. People now hunting for that bad ass CRT.

What happens when you want to watch something in 16x9, which is the case for most things these days? Swap out TVs, have multiple TVs in the same room or a TV just for that in another room? It would be even worse because it would be an HDTV, and everything that's in SD (which is most 4x3) will look like complete shit, without possibly some epic modifications. Like how classic game systems have HDMI mods now. That mock up people is horrible and can't imagine anyone wanting that on their movie/living room. lol
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Old 06-28-2020, 06:28 PM   #22
CrowKiller CrowKiller is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalashaska View Post
There's a pretty large CRT following in the retro gaming community because of their handling of the non-compliant 240p signals many old consoles output that wreak havoc with the internal scalers in flat-panel displays, as well as their super clean motion handling, solid black levels and lack of input lag.

My 800 TVL professional Sony monitor comes in handy for standard-def TV too
You beat me to it with the retro gaming lol
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Old 06-28-2020, 07:03 PM   #23
Shalashaska Shalashaska is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowKiller View Post
You beat me to it with the retro gaming lol
Ha, but even then, a 4:3 OLED gives you almost zero of the benefits of CRTs for retro gaming (no black bars is a flimsy one, especially for an OLED, IMO), with all the downsides of, well, a 4:3 display in 2020.
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Old 06-29-2020, 02:00 AM   #24
David M David M is offline
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This post has a number of assumptions and inaccurate statements in it. But this wouldn't happen either way, and even if it somehow did, it'd have to be priced like the niche product it would be, and you wouldn't want to pay for it anyway.

I think the solution to your very strong dislike of black borders is to just turn out the room lights. OLED's pure blacks will then look as if you have a giant 4:3 display. Or, follow in the footsteps of the cinephiles you mention and get a projection setup with masking.

Quote:
But all high end DVD players have component video outputs. And as that connection yields the highest quality analog signal it likely will make it easier for the OLED’s processor to upscale the DVD video signal.
There's nothing easier about analog video from a scaling perspective. In fact, anything analog just involves an extra D-to-A step. Analog signals are digitized and they then travel through the same processing path as video coming from HDMI (or the internal apps).

Quote:
Cinephiles have long been victimized by the Blu-Ray Assn for mandating Oracle’s BD-J disc authoring-which by default or deliberately locks out zoom and sometimes also slow motion features-and forces compliance upon BD player brands.
I would hardly call cinephiles "victimized" by the industry body that's developed and promoted a format as capable as BD. Alongside OLED displays and better projectors, BD is arguably one of the best things to happen for watching movies at home, ever.

Either way, BD-J authoring is not mandated (the BDA developed the HDMV authoring mode specifically for applications that don't require the complexity of Java). And, this mode does not lock out any zoom controls, because there is no concept of zoom controls in the BD spec. This is something that manufacturers have added on their own, so disc authors have no control over them.

Quote:
Sadly, few if any DVD players have an HDMI output.
Not true. There was an entire product category of "Upscaling DVD player" that existed before BD came down from the high end.

Quote:
But for the reasons given, please begin with Pioneer.
Pioneer exited the display industry over 10 years ago.

Last edited by David M; 06-29-2020 at 02:13 AM.
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Old 06-29-2020, 03:40 AM   #25
D00mM4r1n3 D00mM4r1n3 is offline
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[Show spoiler]
Quote:
Originally Posted by chane View Post
Anyone owning or planning to own an OLED TV surely appreciates their uniquely stunning black level performance, a must for noir genre movie fans. On a related topic, perhaps 55% or more of your favorites were probably shot in 1.85:1 aspect, so the horizontal bars you see shouldn’t be too thick on your standard 16:9 OLED. Some recent movies and some old classics like “2001: A Space Odyssey”, “Sound of Music”, “Three Women”, “Ben Hur” and “Hud” were shot in 2.35: 1. Consequently, they will all have thicker horizontal bars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspect_ratio_(image)

Everyone hates bars but it’s much worse for many cinephiles like me who also enjoy movies released prior to the mid-50s. Many of those, both “A” and “B” pictures, were filmed in 1.37:1 aspect, such as
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0038559...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042039...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0036775...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0038355...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057207...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048261...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0023245...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044314...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043131...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0041954...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0187684...ref_=ttfc_sa_5
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034587...ref_=ttfc_sa_5

Ditto for decades of vintage TV shows from the early 60s (Perry Mason) to the mid-90s (X-Files).

Try watching any of it even on a 77” OLED. If you’re like me the vertical bars, which will be even thicker than horizontal bars when viewing most widescreen aspect content, will be unbearable. And stretching Perry Mason or cropping Gilda’s (or Scully’s) matador hat is unthinkable. Consequently, many of us are compelled to watch this “pillarboxed” 4:3 content on CRT TVs. Picture quality is not too bad and CRTs have excellent OLED-like contrast ratio. But except for a 40” direct view CRT which Sony once released about 17” years ago, virtually all CRTs are a painfully small 32”, less than half the area of 65” widescreen TVs. And the best of performing CRTs (flat CR tube. component video inputs) are becoming impossible to find, and to get serviced. The same for refrigerator sized rear projection CRTs, which while some had 50” screens picture quality couldn’t match that of direct view CRTs. And though direct view projectors can deliver high contrast ratios and large 4:3 images many of the better models cost at least $5,000. and may present placement problems for some users.

The obvious solution here to persuade select TV brands to market a 4:3 OLED TV, size ~ 40” to 50”.

Unfortunately, as much of the CE industry is closely tied to Hollywood, it’s not surprising that cutthroat aspects of that business reflect indifference towards consumer opinions and expectations, at least among the major TV brands, all of whom no longer accept consumer feedback at their websites. Indeed, “apparent” demand might have grown substantially larger if cinephiles hadn’t given up in disgust with asking OLED brands to release 4:3 TVs. Again, except for perhaps Pioneer, most of the majors are deaf to consumer requests, save perhaps from what they glean from their own prognostications. And try finding their marketing VPs’ contact info to share new product ideas; good luck with that.

However, I am about to begin proposing this new product to several other approachable brands.

While demand for a 4:3 OLED may not be huge it is certainly vibrant and long lived. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...uff-4-3-a.html

Additionally, there still are communities at AVS and at other home theater forums devoted to long defunct direct view CRT TVs, of course which are almost exclusively 4;3. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/64-di...-crt-displays/ And here only two months ago members are still calling to bring CRTs back into production, as they have for years. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/64-di...ine-again.html

It’s also well known among videophiles that CRTs, plasmas and OLEDs share very similar performance levels-unmatched by any existing display technology. But as Anthony1 from the first AVS link above suggested, many CRT fans would instantly embrace a space saving flat panel 40” or larger 4:3 OLED TV.

A good sized 4:3 OLED is the way to go-and ideally with a processor at least nearly as good as Sony’s to upscale DVD and BD content.

Analog Video Connectivity: A Must for the 4:3 OLED

Whatever the reasons for the CE industry’s imposed Analog Sunset, it unfairly deprives cinephiles of enjoying their feature packed Denon, Marantz, Pioneer and other high end DVD players. Sony includes one (1) composite input, though most inconveniently placed on the side of their A9G OLED (presumably just for camcorder playbacks)-but which is unsightly and would require longer cable runs from the TV to the DVD player.

But all high end DVD players have component video outputs. And as that connection yields the highest quality analog signal it likely will make it easier for the OLED’s processor to upscale the DVD video signal.

Furthermore, virtually no currently produced BD players have zoom control-a highly prized viewing tool among cinephiles. I was badly upset that my otherwise excellent Oppo BDP-95 has only partial zoom control; it doesn’t allow you to reposition and center a desired part of the zoomed image on the screen. My new Pioneer UDP-LX500 BD player and the discontinued Arcam 411p are about the only BD players which can. But virtually all DVD players have this advanced zoom control functionality, like my trusty JVC
XV-NA70BK.

Cinephiles have long been victimized by the Blu-Ray Assn for mandating Oracle’s BD-J disc authoring-which by default or deliberately locks out zoom and sometimes also slow motion features-and forces compliance upon BD player brands. But all DVDs are free of these oppressive restrictions that rob consumers of the freedom to enjoy as they please the products they purchase. Advanced zoom and slow motion controls are invaluable viewing tools allowing cinephiles more intimate viewing and appreciation of select scenes. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...9#post17681489

Sadly, few if any DVD players have an HDMI output. Thus, all OLED TVs should include component video inputs-or at the very least a rear mounted composite and/or S-video input. Indeed, all OLED TV brands can be assured that adding this analog video connectivity to the proposed 4:3 OLED will further endear this long awaited niche product to the home theater enthusiast community.

Pixel Count and DVD/BD Upscaling

All currently produced OLED TVs have 4K resolution; the pixel count being roughly four times that of the LCD or LED panels used to build earlier 1080p displays. So unless the 4:3 OLED TV has a high quality on board upscaling processor-like the one in Sony’s A9G OLED-the 1080p BD or 480i DVD content displayed on 4K OLED panels may likely fill only a small part of the screen. Alternately, it’s worth considering that while these processors generally do a good job, since most users would only be watching 4:3 content on a this 4:3 display, if it was instead a 1080 rather 4K OLED, BDs would be shown in their native 1080p scale; only DVDs would need to be upscaled. Of course, there currently are no consumer OLED brands making 4:3 OLEDs, nor are there any 1080 widescreen OLEDs.

Ultimately, only each TV brand would know how the economics of OLED panels with 1080 vs. 4K pixel counts would impact their own production of 4:3 OLED TVs. But if they stay with 4K pixels, Pioneer or those brands below should aim to design the 40” to 50” 4K 4:3 TV’s OLED TV around the best upscaling processor within the niche market price point, perhaps ~$2200. or so. The high quality upscaling of 1080p BDs and DVDs (source formats still probably most common among collectors of vintage movies and TV shows) will allow viewers to sit at a comfortable distance.

Fortunately, as OLED technology has now matured the overall cost of making these TVs today has fallen substantially, thus volume sales risks versus tooling costs may be comfortably low-even when marketing lower volume 4K 4:3 OLED TVs with advanced upscaling, the same full featured remotes found in popular 16:9 widescreen OLEDs-and the added component video inputs.

Regarding assembly parts, though LG is likely still the sole supplier of OLED panels this firm may be helpful in getting 4:3 TVs built as cheaply as possible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univer...ay_Corporation

And there are now numerous OLED panel fabricators. Perhaps these and others are supplying the Chinese OLED TV brands listed below-those which may already be selling OLED TVs in North America.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._manufacturers https://www.oled-info.com/companies-...play-producers

Again, regarding demand, even if there are conservatively just ~ 10,000 members among the most prominent home theater forums expressing interest in owning 4:3 OLEDs, the number of consumers actually wanting one could be well beyond 10 to 50 times as much. Demand could easily be tested with runs of 7,000 units or so. And if Pioneer or Chinese brand OLEDs can perform nearly as good as Sony and LG models, and/or for a somewhat lower price, sales may grow even higher.

Finally, given the still extant global pandemic lockdown with so many people staying close to home, a 40” or larger 4:3 OLED will make big chunks of one’s vintage personal movie and TV collection look their best.

I will first be approaching Pioneer, as I especially hope it will be they who agree to market this product. Though no longer making TVs, their UDP-LX500, which I purchased last week, is arguably the best full featured BD player in its price class.
https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...yers/UDP-LX500

If Pioneer’s 4:3 OLEDs were to impress like their Kuro plasmas had for years they may literally corner the market. Depending on Pioneer’s interest will I decide on approaching several Chinese OLED TV brands which now or soon will be serving the US market. https://www.cnet.com/news/ces-2020-c...ter-us-market/

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300974574.html

Huawai’s website shows numerous offices throughout the US. Some even post the contact info of their marketing directors at their websites. And unlike the majors, these newcomers welcome consumer feedback.
https://www.sharptvusa.com/contact/
http://www.konka.com.hk/Contact/
https://skyworthusa.com/contact/
https://e.huawei.com/us/how-to-buy/contact-us
https://www.hisense-usa.com/contact/
https://support.tclusa.com/contactus...our%20question

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...eer/Contact+Us
https://pioneerassets.com/contact
https://pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/...sident+and+COO

Bottom Line: If you don’t ask you don’t get. So for those who have long awaited 4:3 OLEDs please express your requests at the feedback/contact pages of the above brands’ websites.

But for the reasons given, please begin with Pioneer.

And please be sure to also your interest for 4:3 OLEDs-and what you’re doing to make them happen-at bestbuy forum, tom’shardware.com, hometheaterforum.com, AVSforum.doc, CNET.com, AVforums.com, Blu-Rayforum.com, et al.

Please do it today!

DISCLAIMER: Though it would be nice to receive credit for helping to make 4:3 OLED TVs a reality, I am in no way seeking any kind of monetary compensation, nor am I employed by the CE industry. For me, it’s all about the joys of home theater.


People like you still exist? Just buy a projector, paint your entire wall with projector paint to maximize the projected image size, and live happily ever after.
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Old 06-29-2020, 04:54 AM   #26
Hydra Spectre Hydra Spectre is offline
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Double standards here: Letterboxing for CinemaScope movies is fine but pillarboxing for Academy Ratio movies and 4:3 content is not good?
I am okay with black bars.
If I want a 4:3 experience without pillarboxing, I just watch/play on my old CRT, especially since it's the best display for retro games, VHS tapes, LaserDiscs and DVDs/SD Blu-rays of older SD content.
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Old 06-29-2020, 11:43 PM   #27
revgen revgen is online now
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I watch films on my 16:9 OLED in complete darkness. Since OLED's blacks are pure black, I don't even notice the "black bars" on the screen if I watch 4:3 or 2.35:1 content.

The only consumers I can think of who would want this TV are those who watch 4:3 content during the day.
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