Ask questions to BD authoring and compression insider "2themax"

[FourToedStatue]

2themax:

What do you think is stopping Warner, Paramount and Universal from making everyone of their releases lossless (like Disney, Fox and Sony). Is it a business decision or is there some technical obstacle?

[2themax]

Originally Posted by JackBauer24

2themax:

What do you think is stopping Warner, Paramount and Universal from making everyone of their releases lossless (like Disney, Fox and Sony). Is it a business decision or is there some technical obstacle?

I've often wondered that too. Only thing I can conclude is that they were restricted by the bandwidth and size constraint of HD-DVD. In order to use lossless, they'd have to spend more time on the video compression. More time equals more money. On something like The Bourne Ultimatum, it would be worth the money. On let's say No Reservations, it wouldn't be worth it monetarily to spend the time on it. Now Beowulf, I think Paramount skipped the lossless to improvement the PQ. It's all decided by the studios with feedback from the authoring house if they are asked.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by 2themax

It's a hard one to answer with a single answer. A plain, boring release may only take 2-3 weeks. If things get more extravagant, it can go out to 2-3 months. I wouldn't be surprised if some titles are taking even longer when cutting edge features are added.

The steps involved are as follows(and simplified):

- Receive a master
- Find start/end times and chapter times
- Capture to file
- Run preprocessing on the captured file
- Encode - 2 passes
- Encode QC
- Encode audio
- Create menu
- Author
- QC authoring
- QC full project on BD-RE
- Create mastering image
- Send to replicator
- Add AACS
- Check disc
- Replicate

Producing a high quality master can also be time consuming. So, there could be quite a lot in that "receive a master", right?

Gary

[2themax]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

Producing a high quality master can also be time consuming. So, there could be quite a lot in that "receive a master", right?

Gary

Definitely. We've already seen how a bad master can really get the blood flowing around here (TFE). It makes sense to do it once and do it right if the budget is there.

On a side note, I forgot to add subtitling and closed caption to the list above. I've updated it.

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by 2themax

Definitely. We've already seen how a bad master can really get the blood flowing around here (TFE). It makes sense to do it once and do it right if the budget is there.

On a side note, I forgot to add subtitling and closed caption to the list above. I've updated it.

Where in that list of steps would be the determination of how much disc space is available and/or needed for the material?

[2themax]

Originally Posted by patrick99

Where in that list of steps would be the determination of how much disc space is available and/or needed for the material?

That can vary, but in general it would be before we even get a master. The customer is also looking at a replication budget when that is being decided. It's common for us to have discussion with them on the maximum length of content they can have a disc given source material.

[sj001]

Originally Posted by 2themax

- Add AACS


Some of this can be done in parallel. Also, the above times don't include the AACS, check disc, and replication steps.

2themax, maybe I am confused, but aren't most studios opting for BD+ now for their protection schemes? I didn't think Blu-ray studios were still using this with the newer releases?

[2themax]

Originally Posted by sj001

2themax, maybe I am confused, but aren't most studios opting for BD+ now for their protection schemes? I didn't think Blu-ray studios were still using this with the newer releases?

AACS is a BD requirement, with or without BD+. BD+ is an optional and additional encryption scheme. The only studio I know of right now using BD+ is Fox.

[2themax]

Originally Posted by benes

I have a silly question for you. When I author my own discs I notice that chapter marks can only be placed on I-Frames. And I notice you put finding Chapter times as the first step. Does that mean you have to set the encoder with the chapter marks ahead of time and tell it to make sure an I-frame is at that location?

Exactly. I also use the chapters points as encode segments with CineVision PSE. Finding chapter points before encoding becomes a win-win in this case.

[sj001]

Originally Posted by 2themax

AACS is a BD requirement, with or without BD+. BD+ is an optional and additional encryption scheme. The only studio I know of right now using BD+ is Fox.

Gotcha. Do you have any idea when other studios will be including that encryption algorithm? You would think it would be in their best interests.

[WickyWoo]

Gotcha. Do you have any idea when other studios will be including that encryption algorithm? You would think it would be in their best interests.

Now that BD+ is proven technology, everyone is greatly interested. However no one is going to advertise when they'd start useing it, as they want it to be a suprise

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by 2themax

That can vary, but in general it would be before we even get a master. The customer is also looking at a replication budget when that is being decided. It's common for us to have discussion with them on the maximum length of content they can have a disc given source material.

Does this mean that replication cost per disc varies depending on the amount of space on the disc that is used? Or perhaps I have misunderstood the meaning of "replication budget"?

[2themax]

Originally Posted by patrick99

Does this mean that replication cost per disc varies depending on the amount of space on the disc that is used? Or perhaps I have misunderstood the meaning of "replication budget"?

The replication budget was only referring to whether it is a BD25 or BD50 in this case. The amount of information on each makes no difference.

[ranma]

I read your 1-month-ago comments about LOTR. Given the current news that new line was asorbed by Warner. What's your specluation about what warner will do or most likely to do with LOTR release? About the video/audio encodes?

Thank you.

[2themax]

Originally Posted by ranma

I read your 1-month-ago comments about LOTR. Given the current news that new line was asorbed by Warner. What's your specluation about what warner will do or most likely to do with LOTR release? About the video/audio encodes?

Thank you.

I don't think it'll change much really. I don't know much more than anyone else about the specifics of the merger unfortunately. But from looking at, it was a high level change that should leave production just as it is.

[Kosmokrator]

Hi there,

I'm fairly new to the whole topic, so sorry if this question is offtopic here.
I wanna ask what BR authoring solutions (preferrably on Mac) are capable of creating multi-angle shots with an unique audio track assigned to that camera angle. If it's possible, with 5.1 tracks too.
And is the switching 'seamingless' to the user? I imagine it's not possible to switch with frame-accurancy, but maybe little fades?
Please enlighten me

S.

[Icemage]

2themax:

Here's another interesting question. We have "Superbit" DVDs today which are basically billed as less-compressed (and supposedly higher quality) PQ compared to their previously released versions.

Do you think we'll see a day when we get similar treatment for Blu-rays, particularly for short film content? In some cases it should be mathematically possible to use 40Mbps continuous video bit rate on a movie and still not hit the storage limit on a 25 or 50GB disc, right? (assuming here that you don't fill up the space with extras).

Is there a practical benefit to using a continuous bitrate as compared to variable bitrate in this context? Does it simplify the encoding process to have no "bit budget"?

[2themax]

Originally Posted by Kosmokrator

Hi there,

I'm fairly new to the whole topic, so sorry if this question is offtopic here.
I wanna ask what BR authoring solutions (preferrably on Mac) are capable of creating multi-angle shots with an unique audio track assigned to that camera angle. If it's possible, with 5.1 tracks too.
And is the switching 'seamingless' to the user? I imagine it's not possible to switch with frame-accurancy, but maybe little fades?
Please enlighten me

S.

Mac, as of today, won't do it. Encore is available for Mac, but it is very basic. Multi-angle is only available with Blu-print and Scenarist, both PC programs. With either, different audio tracks with up to 8 channels can be done. Also, it is seamless if done correctly. Otherwise, there may be a slight pause.

[2themax]

Originally Posted by Icemage

2themax:

Here's another interesting question. We have "Superbit" DVDs today which are basically billed as less-compressed (and supposedly higher quality) PQ compared to their previously released versions.

Do you think we'll see a day when we get similar treatment for Blu-rays, particularly for short film content? In some cases it should be mathematically possible to use 40Mbps continuous video bit rate on a movie and still not hit the storage limit on a 25 or 50GB disc, right? (assuming here that you don't fill up the space with extras).

Is there a practical benefit to using a continuous bitrate as compared to variable bitrate in this context? Does it simplify the encoding process to have no "bit budget"?

We'll definitely see someone market "Superbit" one day. Some of the current releases are "Superbits" as they are. Simpsons comes to mind first.

Having a continuous bit rate may actually lower quality. Besides bit rate, there's buffer fill rate. That can allow for a quick peak above 40Mbps. I've seen my own work hit 49-50Mbps for a very short period.

[owa]

Originally Posted by 2themax

We'll definitely see someone market "Superbit" one day. Some of the current releases are "Superbits" as they are. Simpsons comes to mind first.

Having a continuous bit rate may actually lower quality. Besides bit rate, there's buffer fill rate. That can allow for a quick peak above 40Mbps. I've seen my own work hit 49-50Mbps for a very short period.

Do you know if that (buffer fill rate) is why the PS3 bitrate meter sometimes jumps above 40 (briefly) or is that just an accuracy issue.