A Guide to Bipolar, Dipolar, & Direct-Radiating Monopole Surround Speakers (PART II)

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by kurtlingle

Hi BigDaddy! Thanks so much for all this great info. Read through both threads on Bipole/Dipole - very cool stuff - I learned ALOT.

So, I followed your link to the Level3 speakers - I also saw the Level2 bi/dipole for $129. What would be the difference?

http://www.htd.com/Products/level-tw...l-TWO-Surround

The main difference is that Level Three speakers have ribbon tweeters with 5.25" woofers and Level Two speakers have dome tweeters with 4" woofers. Level Three speakers have better low frequency extension. Ribbon tweeters are essentially super tweeters. They have a sweet sound and their high frequency extension goes all the way up to 40,000Hz. Although not too many discs have content beyond 20,000Hz and our ears cannot hear ultra high frequencies, super tweeters can add more enjoyment and ambience. Think of them as the opposite of subwoofers. Subwoofers provide us with ultra low frequencies and super tweeters provide us with ultra high frequencies.

It is probably more effective to use ribbon tweeters for front speakers than for surround speakers.

[HAMP]

Reading the advantages and dis-advantages to di/bi-pole, it seems that di-pole is more for me.

Looking at the pics of different layouts, I had my settings set to di-pole, but the layout was just like the bi-pole layout.

The sides were a little further back, and not 90 degrees.

I recently decided to move my speakers forward to have the same layout as the di-pole. I haven't had a chance to listen to the difference. I'm just glad I had that wood panel up and not drywall yet.


This move was exactly 2.5 feet difference.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by HAMP

Reading the advantages and dis-advantages to di/bi-pole, it seems that di-pole is more for me.

Looking at the pics of different layouts, I had my settings set to di-pole, but the layout was just like the bi-pole layout.

The sides were a little further back, and not 90 degrees.

I recently decided to move my speakers forward to have the same layout as the di-pole. I haven't had a chance to listen to the difference. I'm just glad I had that wood panel up and not drywall yet.


This move was exactly 2.5 feet difference.

Dipole surround speakers are more finicky. They have to be installed more carefully.

Bipole surround speakers are like a drunkard lush. You can put them anywhere.

[Grand Bob]

Great, informative thread. At one time I had a pair of Acoustat electrostatics, which I imagine would be classified as bipoles. The ideal listening area (sweet spot) was extremely small. Sitting in the middle of the soundfield, even moving one's head to the right or left resulted in a loss of imaging and high-frequency information.

[Almadacr]

So on my quest to audition bipole/dipole speakers this is what i got my years on it Polk FXi 4 and 6 , Klipsch RS 42 , Energy Veritas VSB and the Paradigm Monitor ADP-390 . My first choice to my ears was the paradigm followed by the polk Fxi 6 and the Enegy Veritas , Polk FXi4 and last that i toke out of the equation ( since i felt that this model will blend well only with the Horn drivers from the klipsch line) . There are 2 models that i can`t audition , the axiom QS4 V3 and the ones gave by Big Daddy , the HTD level 3 .

I am trying to have the best of both worlds : Quality and a great price , the Energy and Paradigm are on the 500$ per speaker , the polks rage from 500$ plus taxes per pair , the Axiom`s are shipped and with taxes the pair 438$ , The HTC comes to 403$ but since it comes by UPS it will be more at the border .

So my question is will be the Axiom the best of both worlds ?? I already read some reviews but those reviews only state how good they are and it dosen`t say if the reviewer had previous di/bipole speakers .

Any input will be appreciated .

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by Almadacr

So on my quest to audition bipole/dipole speakers this is what i got my years on it Polk FXi 4 and 6 , Klipsch RS 42 , Energy Veritas VSB and the Paradigm Monitor ADP-390 . My first choice to my ears was the paradigm followed by the polk Fxi 6 and the Enegy Veritas , Polk FXi4 and last that i toke out of the equation ( since i felt that this model will blend well only with the Horn drivers from the klipsch line) . There are 2 models that i can`t audition , the axiom QS4 V3 and the ones gave by Big Daddy , the HTD level 3 .

I am trying to have the best of both worlds : Quality and a great price , the Energy and Paradigm are on the 500$ per speaker , the polks rage from 500$ plus taxes per pair , the Axiom`s are shipped and with taxes the pair 438$ , The HTC comes to 403$ but since it comes by UPS it will be more at the border .

So my question is will be the Axiom the best of both worlds ?? I already read some reviews but those reviews only state how good they are and it dosen`t say if the reviewer had previous di/bipole speakers .

Any input will be appreciated .

WoW!!! You made some good choice’s and it’s hard to recommend any of them.

My top two would be the Axiom and paradigms, and it’s only because I like how they look.

There is another person on the site named ‘4X12’ and he has Monitor Audio across the front, but he decided on getting the Axiom’s QS8.

Your gonna love the effect of them

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Almadacr

So on my quest to audition bipole/dipole speakers this is what i got my years on it Polk FXi 4 and 6 , Klipsch RS 42 , Energy Veritas VSB and the Paradigm Monitor ADP-390 . My first choice to my ears was the paradigm followed by the polk Fxi 6 and the Enegy Veritas , Polk FXi4 and last that i toke out of the equation ( since i felt that this model will blend well only with the Horn drivers from the klipsch line) . There are 2 models that i can`t audition , the axiom QS4 V3 and the ones gave by Big Daddy , the HTD level 3 .

I am trying to have the best of both worlds : Quality and a great price , the Energy and Paradigm are on the 500$ per speaker , the polks rage from 500$ plus taxes per pair , the Axiom`s are shipped and with taxes the pair 438$ , The HTC comes to 403$ but since it comes by UPS it will be more at the border .

So my question is will be the Axiom the best of both worlds ?? I already read some reviews but those reviews only state how good they are and it dosen`t say if the reviewer had previous di/bipole speakers .

Any input will be appreciated .

Axiom is a Canadian company and makes excellent speakers at reasonable prices. In addition, you won't have to worry about import duties and taxes. If you can raise your budget, get the QS8 speakers.

[Almadacr]

Ok after going after my quest and regarding pros and cons i`m gonna make the move on the axiom QS4 V3 since they also have refurbished/open boxes of the speakers and they also have the same policy of 30 days return , if i see that i am missing something or not totally happy i will change for the QS8 .

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by Almadacr

Ok after going after my quest and regarding pros and cons i`m gonna make the move on the axiom QS4 V3 since they also have refurbished/open boxes of the speakers and they also have the same policy of 30 days return , if i see that i am missing something or not totally happy i will change for the QS8 .

How much are you saving right now with getting the QS4's?

[Almadacr]

Originally Posted by HAMP

How much are you saving right now with getting the QS4's?

Around 140$ from the QS4 to the QS8 this is on new , truth the QS4 refurbished to the QS8 new ( they don`t have refurbished at this moment ) roughly 220$ .

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by Almadacr

Around 140$ from the QS4 to the QS8 this is on new , truth the QS4 refurbished to the QS8 new ( they don`t have refurbished at this moment ) roughly 220$ .

That's a nice savings and like you said, you have the 30 days if not happy.

I had a little bit of a tough time deciding on my surrounds.

The whole set I have from front to rear is the newest silver series from Monitor Audio(RX's). When I went to audition for a new set of speakers, my dealer only had the next model down(Bronze) and previous model(BRFX, which they have the BXFX now) of surrounds. The BRFX’s sounded faaantastic to me, and I would have saved.

He offered me alot of breaks on the different surrounds, and even some guys happen to be at the store from Monitor Audio(doing some type of training on the new series RX’s) offered me a really nice deal on the previous model(RSFX).

It came down to me making the final decision when I was making my final payment, and then I decided to get the newest and picked my current RXFX's, and I am so proud of that set. Part of it was they were the newest, but mainly the design played the biggest part.

I Just had to put out my mind the difference in price…. lol

I really love my choice, especially now with the movie 'TRON'

[Almadacr]

Nice , for since i`m doing some reno at my place buying some new stuff for the kitchen i have to cut on the speakers

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by Almadacr

Nice , for since i`m doing some reno at my place buying some new stuff for the kitchen i have to cut on the speakers

Believe me, when I say I totally understand. My situation was a little different and strange all at the same time. I was replacing my stolen HT. I then started looking for a new place(backwards, I know). I was renting an apartment before.

In away, it worked out. I bought all my current gear and then bought the house. I have been wanting to enclose my theater room, and buy some upgrades, but with the new house we bought, other things come first, especially when it sounds good already and not really lacking in anything.

In my thread where you posted, if you read the first couple of post, you will get a better understanding of what I’m talking about.

[sazabi]

I have a before upgrading question. I am a gamer and I use my system 40% games 40% movies and 20% music and when I play games I am ganna need the direct sound effect more than the defused one ' cuse I wanna know from witch exact direction the bullet comes from and where exactly that explosion is. My question is that with the Dipole and the Bipole speakers can I have the same effect? Or will be distracted and not being able to till from which direction the danger comes and that is crucial when I play games.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by sazabi

I have a before upgrading question. I am a gamer and I use my system 40% games 40% movies and 20% music and when I play games I am ganna need the direct sound effect more than the defused one ' cuse I wanna know from witch exact direction the bullet comes from and where exactly that explosion is. My question is that with the Dipole and the Bipole speakers can I have the same effect? Or will be distracted and not being able to till from which direction the danger comes and that is crucial when I play games.

If directionality is important for you, then buy two small bookshelf speakers and use them as surround. If the choice is between bipole or dipole surround speakers, then buy bipole speakers. They are more likely to satisfy you for both games and movies.

[Massacre1]

I have to say thank you, Big Daddy. All of your threads have helped me learn a tremendous amount of information.

If you were to look at my HT gallery right now you would notice a whole bunch of no-no's. The center is on the bottom shelf, the main speakers are a tad high, and the surrounds are right next to the listener and turned in a-bit, among some other things.

I am in the midst of solving all these problems. The surrounds are now placed about 3 feet from the listeners, I have chopped about 6 inches off of my main speaker stands, so now the tweeters are at ear level, and I am going to build a stand to hold my TV so that the center speaker is at ear level.

Once again, thank you. Reading your posts is like going to science class with a really cool teacher. I am hoping to take my HT knowledge and get a job as a HT installer during college.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by Massacre1

I have to say thank you, Big Daddy. All of your threads have helped me learn a tremendous amount of information.

If you were to look at my HT gallery right now you would notice a whole bunch of no-no's. The center is on the bottom shelf, the main speakers are a tad high, and the surrounds are right next to the listener and turned in a-bit, among some other things.

I am in the midst of solving all these problems. The surrounds are now placed about 3 feet from the listeners, I have chopped about 6 inches off of my main speaker stands, so now the tweeters are at ear level, and I am going to build a stand to hold my TV so that the center speaker is at ear level.

Once again, thank you. Reading your posts is like going to science class with a really cool teacher. I am hoping to take my HT knowledge and get a job as a HT installer during college.

Thank you and good luck to you.

[jsr]

I have Premier Acoustic PA-6S bipole speakers that I haven't hooked up yet. I know to put them 2-3ft above listening level, but how far apart should they be? Should they be inline with the fronts (same distance apart L & R)?...further apart?

I have no right side wall, only a left side wall (3 walls), if that makes any difference.

Thanks.

[Big Daddy]

Originally Posted by jsr

I have Premier Acoustic PA-6S bipole speakers that I haven't hooked up yet. I know to put them 2-3ft above listening level, but how far apart should they be? Should they be inline with the fronts (same distance apart L & R)?...further apart?

I have no right side wall, only a left side wall (3 walls), if that makes any difference.

Thanks.

Are you using them as side surround speakers or as rear surround speakers?

If you are using them as side surround speakers, they should not be inline with the front speakers. If you don't have a wall on one side, attach the surround speaker to the ceiling with a bracket. Make sure the height of both surround speakers is the same. Alternatively, you can put the surround speakers on tall speaker stands.

If you are using the bipole speakers as rear surround speakers, don't install them too close to each other. Make sure they are at least as far apart as the front speakers to create a diffuse sound in the rear for movies.

[jsr]

Thanks BD. They're being used as rear surrounds, so I'll space them further apart than the fronts speakers. Just need to find the studs so I can have at least 1 screw for each speaker on a stud (they're pretty hefty). The right side bipole won't have a right wall to bounce sound against, so hopefully that doesn't affect sound too much.