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Old 02-16-2022, 05:36 AM   #41
DaylightsEnd DaylightsEnd is online now
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Originally Posted by wesslan View Post
4K looks horrible.
Agreed.

We need to forget this unfortunate transfer ever happened, and start begging Turbine if they can finally hook us up with proper 4k uhd's of the FIRST THREE Hellraiser films. Turbine's black box standard blu ray release represents the best those first three films have ever looked. They've been teasing us with hints at a possible planned 4k uhd of the first film for quite some time now....
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Old 02-16-2022, 05:43 AM   #42
Latheofheaven Latheofheaven is offline
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Originally Posted by DaylightsEnd View Post
Agreed.

We need to forget this unfortunate transfer ever happened, and start begging Turbine if they can finally hook us up with proper 4k uhd's of the FIRST THREE Hellraiser films. Turbine's black box standard blu ray release represents the best those first three films have ever looked. They've been teasing us with hints at a possible planned 4k uhd of the first film for quite some time now....
Sorry if I'm being dense here, but wasn't the Arrow Scarlet Box considered pretty good...?
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Old 02-16-2022, 05:47 AM   #43
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It was, until Turbine's Black Box release revealed the Arrow set to contain grossly oversharpened transfers with unattractive, unnatural, dense, swarming grain that was more like scanner noise in appearance. Arrow's Hellbound is particularly ugly and non-filmic, in this regard, but the first film also suffered from excessive over-sharpening. And Hell on Earth was also horribly mis-framed in the Arrow release, which was corrected in the Turbine set. The Turbine release is easily better for all three films, but especially for Hellbound.
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Old 02-16-2022, 06:21 AM   #44
Latheofheaven Latheofheaven is offline
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Originally Posted by DaylightsEnd View Post
It was, until Turbine's Black Box release revealed the Arrow set to contain grossly oversharpened transfers with unattractive, unnatural, dense, swarming grain that was more like scanner noise in appearance. Arrow's Hellbound is particularly ugly and non-filmic, in this regard, but the first film also suffered from excessive over-sharpening. And Hell on Earth was also horribly mis-framed in the Arrow release, which was corrected in the Turbine set. The Turbine release is easily better for all three films, but especially for Hellbound.
HOLY SMOKES! I had no idea... I guess I just assumed that such a lovely looking set coming from Arrow was considered very good. Damn... guess I'd better start looking into the Turbine set. Thanks kindly Bro for setting me straight!
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Old 02-16-2022, 06:29 AM   #45
Latheofheaven Latheofheaven is offline
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Originally Posted by DaylightsEnd View Post
It was, until Turbine's Black Box release revealed the Arrow set to contain grossly oversharpened transfers with unattractive, unnatural, dense, swarming grain that was more like scanner noise in appearance. Arrow's Hellbound is particularly ugly and non-filmic, in this regard, but the first film also suffered from excessive over-sharpening. And Hell on Earth was also horribly mis-framed in the Arrow release, which was corrected in the Turbine set. The Turbine release is easily better for all three films, but especially for Hellbound.
Also... I just went to Caps-A-Holics and compared the Arrow UK to the Turbine for 'HELLRAISER III' and, am I mistaken, but in the Turbine release, is a whole section of the left side of the frame missing...??!
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Old 02-16-2022, 07:32 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latheofheaven View Post
Also... I just went to Caps-A-Holics and compared the Arrow UK to the Turbine for 'HELLRAISER III' and, am I mistaken, but in the Turbine release, is a whole section of the left side of the frame missing...??!
Not missing. It was never supposed to be there. In that additional area on the Arrow release, there are all kinds of things that you're not supposed to see: equipment, edges of sets, the behind-the-scenes workings of special effects. Here's a big one:

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&...=65304&i=2&l=0

She's supposed to look like she's suspended in air. You're not supposed to see that she's actually hanging from the ceiling with the chains going through the pillar and around a beam. It's a mess, and Arrow never did admit they screwed it up.
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Old 02-16-2022, 07:43 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Rockercub View Post
Not missing. It was never supposed to be there. In that additional area on the Arrow release, there are all kinds of things that you're not supposed to see: equipment, edges of sets, the behind-the-scenes workings of special effects. Here's a big one:

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&...=65304&i=2&l=0

She's supposed to look like she's suspended in air. You're not supposed to see that she's actually hanging from the ceiling with the chains going through the pillar and around a beam. It's a mess, and Arrow never did admit they screwed it up.
Thanks Bro! Yep, in reading more of the threads about this, I saw where they were explaining that. But, if you don't know, the first impression is a bit weird
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Old 02-16-2022, 12:09 PM   #48
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Rockercub nailed it. Great explanation.

I have several older blu ray releases of the first three films, and have still kept most of the discs....Usa, Australia, Japan, etc. However, I promptly sold my Arrow scarlet box set despite its newer transfers that people were raving about at the time, mainly because I just couldn't get on with the nasty digital over-sharpening, which I am very sensitive to, and the misframed Hell on Earth transfer. When I saw the Turbine release on my 75" oled, which had come out a short while after the Arrow scarlet box set, I was pleased enough that I grabbed two copies of the Turbine set instead.

The Turbine Black Box (I think they later just called it the Collector's edition, and have reissued it a couple of times over the years in a basic red n black cardboard slip-box) was a great relief, keeping the benefits of the superior newer transfers that Arrow had used, but thankfully not having the various downsides of the Arrow set. To my eyes, Hellbound was the worst offender in the Arrow package, and benefited the most from Turbine's efforts (or lack of tampering). It is a soft film (which is why Arrow had sharpened it so egregiously) with loads of hazy and smoky shots, and is much more natural and filmic in the Turbine set. Hellbound is the film I am most excited to see in the future with a hopeful 4k uhd release, because I feel it stands to benefit the most from the 4k format's enhanced contrast and superior management of grain and highlights over a standard blu ray.

The same thing happened to me with The Hills Have Eyes 1977. Arrow released a new blu ray a few years back, based on a newer scan of the sole remaining interpositive source. Folks raved about it (of course, because it's Arrow) being an amazing upgrade, and it was in fact a far better transfer than prior scans. But I've never got on with Arrow's heinous early works on blu ray from years ago, and I found their newer Hills Have Eyes transfer to be equally heinous, with a truly bizarre, faded, pinkish and sickly color palette, off-putting yellowish gamma, wacky weak black levels, and their resulting signature, ugly, exacerbated grain-field of old, once again. Fortunately, Turbine soon confirmed my reservations over the disappointing 2018 Arrow effort when Turbine released its own blu ray of the film from the same newer transfer, but thankfully using the proper color palette and gamma, and the results were a huge relief again. Turbine then beat Arrow to the punch last year and released Hills Have Eyes 1977 on 4k uhd, again using their correct color palette, and it's a great offering. When Arrow finally released their own 4k uhd of the film shortly after Turbine last year, they finally used the same color palette and gamma as Turbine, producing a fine 4k disc with the added benefit of slightly better compression and the option of an alternate ending, even slightly besting the Turbine disc. Arrow has really stepped up its game in recent years, and is now pumping out superior product, some very top-notch product indeed, and have become one of my favorite boutique labels. Be wary of their early releases, however, which Arrow themselves have occasionally reissued in an attempt to improve upon them. Arrow's new 4k offerings have been excellent, and between Turbine, Blue Underground, and Arrow, I hope we continue to see a goodly amount of definitive 4k releases of vintage horror films that Arrow and others had wronged in the past on early botched blu ray efforts.

Last edited by DaylightsEnd; 02-17-2022 at 02:14 AM.
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Old 10-25-2022, 01:31 PM   #49
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Sorry for the late bump but is the Resen release the only individual blu-ray available for this movie? Is the original US blu-ray still the best copy? It is a shame this movie hasn’t been treated better.
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Old 10-31-2022, 08:12 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Varishna View Post
Sorry for the late bump but is the Resen release the only individual blu-ray available for this movie? Is the original US blu-ray still the best copy? It is a shame this movie hasnít been treated better.
The Bloodline/Inferno double feature has a decent quality as well. Don't know about the Resen release though.. I hope one of the boutique labels will get us a new scan some day. fingers crossed.
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Old 11-01-2022, 02:40 AM   #51
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Resen BD is a boot and I believe a port of the Umbrella/84 master (which was sourced from a 35mm theatrical print).

The Miramax releases use a HD master sourced from an IP, but only have 2.0 audio (native mixed in 5.1).
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