1080i VS 1080p

[shadow-lynx]

Sony 34XBR800 is the best picture i've ever seen compared to any LCD, Plasma, DLP etc.

CRT can not be beaten. Something will eventually, but hasn't happened yet!

[Frode]

Let me see if I can simplify this a bit:

1080i crt = use 1080i
1080p LCD/plasma/DLP etc = use 1080p
Everything else HD = use 720P

That will ensure you get the best possible quality. Even if you have a 1366x768 plasma/LCD, stick to 720P because the display most likely won't be able to properly deinterlace 1080i.

[cawgijoe]

Originally Posted by Frode

Let me see if I can simplify this a bit:

1080i crt = use 1080i
1080p LCD/plasma/DLP etc = use 1080p
Everything else HD = use 720P

That will ensure you get the best possible quality. Even if you have a 1366x768 plasma/LCD, stick to 720P because the display most likely won't be able to properly deinterlace 1080i.

Probably a good idea to stick to the Native Resolution of the set and not the source, but that all depends on how well the set can scale the picture.

It's a matter of experimentation. Try it both ways and decide which you think is better and stick with it.

[sardaukar1977]

hmm another one of these threads.

[hc666]

1080i is beautiful of course, but if I was buying a set right now I would go 1080p, I think you would notice a little difference in high def movies, but for TV itself, likely not... even at 1080i, i find broadcasts are flakey at times whereas BR movies for example are coming from a consistent source with no interference.

Depends on the person I guess, if you're a movie buff... go 1080p.

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by shadow-lynx

here's the facts about HDTV resolution(if i'm wrong please reply)

first: whatever your native resolution of your tv is that's what it converts everthing to. For instance if you have a flat panel 720p tv and you input 1080i signal, the tv processor will convert it to 720p. It will not display a 1080i picture.
If you have a 1080p tv and you input a 1080i signal(tv/sat) it will scale it to 1080p(fill in the missing resolution)

I have a 34" CRT Sony XBR800 tube tv. The native resolution is 1080i. So if i play a PS3 game in 720p my Sony will convert it to 1080i. I use the component video cables for my PS3. They can only pass up to 1080i but that's all i need. The picture is visual eye candy. It's the best PQ i've ever seen.

BTW, i work part-time at Best Buy and i have yet to see any tv surpass the Sony CRT quality, color, refresh rate, or the blacks playing Blu-ray(or tv).

technically "Full HD" is considered to be 1080p rez on a 1080p tv.

Almost. Some TVs have fixed pixel displays (LCDs, plasmas, DLPs) with a specific "native resolution" and some do not. CRTs do not have a fixed number of pixels that it scales everything to. I believe if you feed your TV a 480i signal, it will most likely just show 480 lines interlaced. That's just how the electron beams move across the screen, and the control of the electron beam being analog and not digital, the tube itself can show any resolution (I used to set my computer displays to crazy resolutions like 1344x1008). This is also the reason why SDTV look better on CRTs than newer digital displays, as it doesn't have to go through any digital scaling (which introduces digital noise) -- feed it 480i and it will show 480i, and your eyes will do the scaling.

That said, it is quite possible that your TV will take both 720p and 1080i signals and convert them to 1080i before doing some sort of digital electronic processing of the signal (color/hue/brightness controls etc.). In that case it will be better to feed it whatever it uses internally.

enjoy
gandalf

[Frode]

That said, it is quite possible that your TV will take both 720p and 1080i signals and convert them to 1080i before doing some sort of digital electronic processing of the signal (color/hue/brightness controls etc.). In that case it will be better to feed it whatever it uses internally.

From what I gather, CRT HDTVs (with a few possible exceptions) either don't support 720P input, or they do it but then scale it to 1080i. That's why I listed CRT as 1080i - it's the only technology that can actually display 1080i natively. All the other technologies out there have to convert it to progressive and then possibly downscale it if the native resolution isn't 1080P. In other words, there's no such thing as a "1080i LCD".

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by shadow-lynx

here's the facts about HDTV resolution(if i'm wrong please reply)

first: whatever your native resolution of your tv is that's what it converts everthing to. For instance if you have a flat panel 720p tv and you input 1080i signal, the tv processor will convert it to 720p. It will not display a 1080i picture.
If you have a 1080p tv and you input a 1080i signal(tv/sat) it will scale it to 1080p(fill in the missing resolution)

I have a 34" CRT Sony XBR800 tube tv. The native resolution is 1080i. So if i play a PS3 game in 720p my Sony will convert it to 1080i. I use the component video cables for my PS3. They can only pass up to 1080i but that's all i need. The picture is visual eye candy. It's the best PQ i've ever seen.

BTW, i work part-time at Best Buy and i have yet to see any tv surpass the Sony CRT quality, color, refresh rate, or the blacks playing Blu-ray(or tv).

technically "Full HD" is considered to be 1080p rez on a 1080p tv.

My Panny plasma is a 720P native rez. But it will accept and display a 1080i signal. When you feed it a blu-ray source through 1080i, like the PS3, it will display the image in 1080i, not 720P. To check for this, most monitors will have a 'display' type button on the remote. When you hit it, it will tell you what resolution the source is on the monitor. Through Directv HD, I force all HD content to 1080i, even if the channel is native 720P, like ESPNHD. The display reads what source it is displaying, 1080i.

[Frode]

My Panny plasma is a 720P native rez. But it will accept and display a 1080i signal. When you feed it a blu-ray source through 1080i, like the PS3, it will display the image in 1080i, not 720P.

No it won't - it'll downconvert it to 720P. It's a fixed pixel display, you can't get extra pixels out of thin air. All your remote button is telling is what the input signal is, not how it's displayed. In addition that Panny plasma of yours is most likely applying bob deinterlacing to the 1080i signal, converting it to 540p, and after that upconverting it to 720p. You thus have two scaling operations, and one of them is dropping the resolution to less than your display is capable of showing, reducing the picture quality significantly.

Just stick to 720P with your display - you'll get much better results. In addition for BDs, the PS3 will be able to properly handle converting 1080@24p directly to 720@60p, without the loss associated with going through 1080i first and deinterlacing it in your TV.

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by Frode

From what I gather, CRT HDTVs (with a few possible exceptions) either don't support 720P input, or they do it but then scale it to 1080i. That's why I listed CRT as 1080i - it's the only technology that can actually display 1080i natively.

That makes sense, and jives with what I've gathered. Thanks.

enjoy
gandalf

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by Frode

No it won't - it'll downconvert it to 720P. It's a fixed pixel display, you can't get extra pixels out of thin air. All your remote button is telling is what the input signal is, not how it's displayed. In addition that Panny plasma of yours is most likely applying bob deinterlacing to the 1080i signal, converting it to 540p, and after that upconverting it to 720p. You thus have two scaling operations, and one of them is dropping the resolution to less than your display is capable of showing, reducing the picture quality significantly.

Just stick to 720P with your display - you'll get much better results. In addition for BDs, the PS3 will be able to properly handle converting 1080@24p directly to 720@60p, without the loss associated with going through 1080i first and deinterlacing it in your TV.

That's right. Also, jcs913, your Panasonic plasma's native resolution is probably not exactly 720p (1280x720) -- until the recent introduction of 1080p (1920x1080), Panasonic high-definition plasmas had a resolution of 1024x768 (42" and smaller) or 1366x768 (50" and larger).

These were usually advertised as "720p plasmas" because they were somewhat similar to 1280x720 in number of pixels. Same for "720p LCDs" although most of those are 1366x768 even for small sizes and Pioneer "720p plasmas" (which I believe were actually 1280x768 pixels).

enjoy
gandalf

[welwynnick]

Gandalf - you didn't mention ALIS plasmas?

That special case aside, plasmas or generally only 720, 768 or 1080 line displays with progressive display (I hesitate to say scanning, as that's what good ol' CRTs do).

There are some Panasonic plasmas with 720 lines. There are some 37" models that have 1024x720 resolution, but the more popular 42" ones were 1024x768, and the 50" and up were 1366x768. IIRC, only 50" Pioneer plasmas are 1280x768.

BR, Nick

[jcs913]

Originally Posted by Frode

No it won't - it'll downconvert it to 720P. It's a fixed pixel display, you can't get extra pixels out of thin air. All your remote button is telling is what the input signal is, not how it's displayed. In addition that Panny plasma of yours is most likely applying bob deinterlacing to the 1080i signal, converting it to 540p, and after that upconverting it to 720p. You thus have two scaling operations, and one of them is dropping the resolution to less than your display is capable of showing, reducing the picture quality significantly.

Just stick to 720P with your display - you'll get much better results. In addition for BDs, the PS3 will be able to properly handle converting 1080@24p directly to 720@60p, without the loss associated with going through 1080i first and deinterlacing it in your TV.

Strange, but makes sense after I read more into it. The only problem I have is that I was running it at 720P for a while and recently changed it to only 1080i. The same movies I watched and same Directv shows look sharper and the colors look much more realistic under 1080i. It definetly looks much better when locked under the 1080i from the DTV receiver, PS3 and Panny 30 bd player than 720P. Any thoughts?

[superdynamite]

Motorstorm is your only good game. OUCH!

Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare = Greatest game of all time. Check it out.

Sonic is the WORST!!!

[superdynamite]

Originally Posted by sardaukar1977

hmm another one of these threads.

Motorstorm is your only good game. OUCH!

Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare = Greatest game of all time. Check it out.

Sonic is the WORST!!! Sorry. LOL

Great BD collection though.

[Bluhorizon]

Originally Posted by shadow-lynx

Sony 34XBR800 is the best picture i've ever seen compared to any LCD, Plasma, DLP etc.

CRT can not be beaten. Something will eventually, but hasn't happened yet!

Of course this is because this particular CRT gives you much better detail in the blacks than fixed pixel displays, but you are of course limited to the small screen size.

Since moving from my Sony 34" CRT to a Sony VPL-VW100 projector onto a 100" Stewart screen I can say I am totally happy with the detail in the blacks and the black level, especially with the assistance of a DVDO iscan VP50 video scaler/deinterlacer.

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by welwynnick

Gandalf - you didn't mention ALIS plasmas?

Yeah I know...the last discussion about ALIS totally scrambled my mind.

Originally Posted by welwynnick

There are some Panasonic plasmas with 720 lines. There are some 37" models that have 1024x720 resolution, but the more popular 42" ones were 1024x768, and the 50" and up were 1366x768. IIRC, only 50" Pioneer plasmas are 1280x768.

Really? I always thought they only made 1024x768 and 1366x768 until recently. My bad.

enjoy
gandalf

[gand41f]

Originally Posted by jcs913

Strange, but makes sense after I read more into it. The only problem I have is that I was running it at 720P for a while and recently changed it to only 1080i. The same movies I watched and same Directv shows look sharper and the colors look much more realistic under 1080i. It definetly looks much better when locked under the 1080i from the DTV receiver, PS3 and Panny 30 bd player than 720P. Any thoughts?

Older Panasonic plasmas didn't accept 720p (they were 1080i and 480p only). When they added 720p input, there was speculation that they just added circuitry to internally convert 720p to 1080i and reused rest of the electronics unchanged. If that was true, then it makes sense that 1080i looks better even if the TV has 720 or 768 lines.

If you think it's silly, consider the case of my old Sharp -- it has digital inputs (DVI and HDMI) but it actually converts digital to analog first. From my cable box, component looked better than DVI/HDMI, and the screen visibly vibrated when I fed it 1080i using a digital input. (That was one of the reasons why I was really happy when PS3 added 720p scaling to Blu-ray playback.)

enjoy
gandalf

[Frode]

Okay that is weird. I'd check the calibration settings first though, before putting the blame on an esoteric input handling. If it's the latter, it's very much the exception rather than the rule.