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Old 12-16-2015, 10:07 PM   #21
Derb Derb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinMaster View Post
While a disc doesn't specifically have any limits it is much more likely to get scratched if it's constantly spinning instead of just sitting in the drive. A PS4 hard drive is much cheaper and easier to replace than the optical drive in a Wii U or PS4: the hard drive isn't proprietary and it is designed to be replaceable.

I've had plenty of hard drives break so I understand that problem, but I'm much more concerned about something breaking that can't be easily replaced. It is unlikely that there will ever be a point that I can't replace a PS4 hard drive easily, but in the future replacing a Wii U or PS4 optical drive could be very difficult. And if a rare game you have happens to get damaged from use, that would be difficult and/or expensive to replace as well.
Sure there are plenty of issues on all sides.

Do you consider MS & Sony's discs to be physical beyond just holding them in your hand? they are write only discs.
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Old 12-17-2015, 01:19 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derb View Post
Sure there are plenty of issues on all sides.

Do you consider MS & Sony's discs to be physical beyond just holding them in your hand? they are write only discs.
The important thing about them being physical versus digital is that they can be resold. It means a single company doesn't have absolute control over distribution: long after the discs are out of print they will still be available via the used market. Whether I'm playing from the disc or playing from the hard drive is irrelevant.
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Old 12-17-2015, 01:33 AM   #23
ChadFL ChadFL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pondosinatra View Post
Well I'm a PC gamer. Give me a mouse and keyboard over a console controller any day.
For point and clock games I agree. But for the life of my I've never understood why anyone would prefer playing games from most genre with a keyboard and mouse over a controller. FPS's are a huge pain in the ass on a PC without a controller.
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Old 12-17-2015, 02:45 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by ChadFL View Post
FPS's are a huge pain in the ass on a PC without a controller.
What......the.......F.U.C.K.!?
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Old 12-17-2015, 03:27 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dyne View Post
What......the.......F.U.C.K.!?
I am in agreement with you, though console fps' have improved. The keyboard and mouse is much more natural. My opinion could also be influenced by playing Doom, Wolfenstein, Duke Nukem 3D, Dark Forces, Quake, Kingpin, etc. in my formative years.
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Old 12-17-2015, 10:27 AM   #26
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Maybe people got used to the new console controls for FPS.

I know that keyboard and mouse used to be the only viable way to play back in day. (like when Quake came out era)

However, I've seen kids these days playing COD with console controllers and they have it down pat.
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Old 12-17-2015, 11:52 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PenguinMaster View Post
The important thing about them being physical versus digital is that they can be resold. It means a single company doesn't have absolute control over distribution: long after the discs are out of print they will still be available via the used market. Whether I'm playing from the disc or playing from the hard drive is irrelevant.
With digital, you are basically renting a licensing agreement, nothing more.

I understand physical media is important for all the positive reasons like resale, collections etc etc. Problem is game developers are not putting their game out in full day 1 on disc. Most AAA games this year had day 1 updates. Fallout 4 is the most recent example with that one having 5GB on disc & the rest you have to download on PC. This doesn't seem like it's gonna be a trend but it's the second game this year I know of that has done this. The rest usually require critical patches so the game is playable or minor patches because they found in testing problems with the game after it went gold & was pressed & already shipped. The biggest concern people should have is these servers that hold those important patches can not be copied or backed up. Those servers will eventually go down. It's been that way since Sega Dreamcast in 1999 followed by Xbox's first console.
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Old 12-17-2015, 12:17 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by bhampton View Post
However, I've seen kids these days playing COD with console controllers and they have it down pat.
People being good with a controller does not void the comment he made of a M/KB being a PITA. All your comment adds is that a controller is easy to use for a fps, which I agree it is. That was never the argument.
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Old 12-17-2015, 12:30 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derb View Post
With digital, you are basically renting a licensing agreement, nothing more.

I understand physical media is important for all the positive reasons like resale, collections etc etc. Problem is game developers are not putting their game out in full day 1 on disc. Most AAA games this year had day 1 updates. Fallout 4 is the most recent example with that one having 5GB on disc & the rest you have to download on PC. This doesn't seem like it's gonna be a trend but it's the second game this year I know of that has done this. The rest usually require critical patches so the game is playable or minor patches because they found in testing problems with the game after it went gold & was pressed & already shipped. The biggest concern people should have is these servers that hold those important patches can not be copied or backed up. Those servers will eventually go down. It's been that way since Sega Dreamcast in 1999 followed by Xbox's first console.
Due to the DRM present in PC games they are all basically digital, the discs can only be used by one person and only while the game is officially supported. I never support any PC games for that reason.

In the case of PS4 games while they all have patches, they aren't required. I have never connected my PS4 to the internet and I've never had a major problem with any games (I've played more than 50). There are obviously minor glitches but that's nothing new... I think the system I've played with the most game-breaking bugs is Sega Genesis.

Bringing this back to the topic at hand: I've heard many say that Wii U is the only option if you don't have an internet connection, but I doubt any of those people have ever tried to play a PS4 without an internet connection; they just assume it won't work because patches exist (as you just did).

Last edited by PenguinMaster; 12-17-2015 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 12-17-2015, 02:22 PM   #30
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I've really enjoyed my Wii U—Mario Kart 8 is probably in my top 10 of all time now.

But other than Mario Maker, this past year has been decidedly lackluster for the system. I haven't yet played the Yoshi or Kirby games, and Xenoblade doesn't interest me. Pushing Zelda and Star Fox to 2016 was probably smart in the long run but hurts for the time being. I have barely turned my system on since playing a lot of Mario Maker in September. But that's also because there's been so many great PS4 and XB1 games to play.

And I don't give a crap about Amiibo, so it's disappointing to me that's what Nintendo seems to be focusing on. Not only that, but it seems like they're got this mission to always innovate, even when it's unnecessary. I don't know, but I never thought Star Fox needed its controls to be more complicated. If they had delivered a new HD installment with the classic feel that would have been fine by me.
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Old 12-17-2015, 06:40 PM   #31
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Wii U seems to have a bad reputation
Seems? It has.

The Wii U has a few good games but the rest are just shovelware and it was dissed away by the non-Nintendo fans because of how lacking the console is. Only those who remained were Nintendo fans and fanboys because the console offers games that you can't get elsewhere but the PC emulator Cemu is WIP so by the end of 2016 everyone with a PC capable to run it won't need a Wii U.

I only use my Wii U to play Mario Kart 8. Seriously.
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Old 12-17-2015, 06:43 PM   #32
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The new Mario Tennis for it is pretty fun.
Is this sarcasm or do you really mean it for real?
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Old 12-17-2015, 06:46 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derb View Post
With digital, you are basically renting a licensing agreement, nothing more.

I understand physical media is important for all the positive reasons like resale, collections etc etc. Problem is game developers are not putting their game out in full day 1 on disc. Most AAA games this year had day 1 updates. Fallout 4 is the most recent example with that one having 5GB on disc & the rest you have to download on PC. This doesn't seem like it's gonna be a trend but it's the second game this year I know of that has done this. The rest usually require critical patches so the game is playable or minor patches because they found in testing problems with the game after it went gold & was pressed & already shipped. The biggest concern people should have is these servers that hold those important patches can not be copied or backed up. Those servers will eventually go down. It's been that way since Sega Dreamcast in 1999 followed by Xbox's first console.
I've been playing Mario Kart 8 since launch and bought the "Season Pass" not long after it was made available but it's digital-only so that means that if anything ever happens to my Wii U and Nintendo's no longer offering online support for Wii U then I'm done for. Thankfully pirating comes handy when customers get screwed by the products they legally bought so there's that, if it comes to it.
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Old 12-18-2015, 01:44 AM   #34
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Wii U is my favorite console of this gen because of all the fun Nintendo stuff. I only play Halo 5 on my Xbox One.
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Old 12-18-2015, 11:22 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Lyris View Post
Wii U is my favorite console of this gen because of all the fun Nintendo stuff. I only play Halo 5 on my Xbox One.
All?

Wii U's library is pretty limited so the closest you'd get to an "all the fun Nintendo stuff" would be on 3DS.

Plus, 3DS actually has the good Mario Tennis game unlike Wii U.
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Old 12-19-2015, 12:51 AM   #36
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Yeah I have been pretty torn about picking up a Wii U for my kids, but don't think I'll bother based on the current pricing. Super Smash Bros Wii U, Pikmin 3, and maybe a couple of the Super Mario Bros titles look like the only ones of any real interest. Honestly, I'll probably wait until next year when the price of the console will probably drop big time once the NX is announced. You can get a regular Wii used for $30-$40 around here. I'm guessing a used Wii U will run around $100 by this time next year (or maybe sooner).
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Old 12-19-2015, 02:01 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by DuranFanWI View Post
Yeah I have been pretty torn about picking up a Wii U for my kids, but don't think I'll bother based on the current pricing. Super Smash Bros Wii U, Pikmin 3, and maybe a couple of the Super Mario Bros titles look like the only ones of any real interest. Honestly, I'll probably wait until next year when the price of the console will probably drop big time once the NX is announced. You can get a regular Wii used for $30-$40 around here. I'm guessing a used Wii U will run around $100 by this time next year (or maybe sooner).
2016 looks to be the last year of Wii U and when the so just give it some more time. It's not worth spending too much on the Wii U anymore. I'll admit it's a shame Wii U is a commercial failure because if not then we'd have seen a ton of awesome games from Nintendo and third party publishers. The only games Ubisoft releases on Wii U are the yearly Just Dance.
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Old 12-20-2015, 06:01 AM   #38
Hayabusa85 Hayabusa85 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derb View Post
Who knew Electronic brands would of dominated our current gen after N64?
Well probably the people that realized N64 didn't even hit 40 million while PS1 surpassed 100 million

----------------------

Anyway, the Wii U isn't awful like the Wii was but there is a lot holding it back. First the same problem Nintendo always have which is not being able to shake the kiddy image hurts sales in this shooter heavy gaming culture of today.

The second problem is something they will never overcome either and that is the lack of third party support. They did a lot of damage to third party relations when they got arrogant and thought everybody had to bow to them in the industry. They tried to force ridiculous policies on third parties and then Sony came along and everybody they pissed off told them where they can stick their policies Companies like EA have never gone back short of a few games here and there. Even with the success of the Wii fad they couldn't pull in companies like EA for more than a few games. On top of that they keep releasing weak cheap systems so if a third party would entertain the thought of supporting them they get turned away from the fact that they can't simply port their current gen games.

So when it comes down to it Nintendo have to depend on themselves and there are only so many games they can release. So you are left with big gaps between the games worth buying. Which is sadly an ever shrinking list as Nintendo have been dropping the ball a lot lately. They have also pretty much tossed in the towel on the Wii U and are moving on to NX.

Then we are in an online gaming era which hurts Nintendo. Very few games even have online play on the Wii U while the structure is archaic. And some things are just downright absurd like downloads being linked to consoles and not online accounts. They also lack the bells and whistles that a lot of people have come to expect like achievement/trophy systems.

That being said all this stuff as well as other problems they face with the modern gaming community I didn't bother to post are lost on most kids. So no need to fear buying one for your kids to enjoy some Mario Kart, Smash etc.
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Old 12-20-2015, 08:12 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Derb View Post
A HDD only has so many TBW's.

A disc is limitless, A drive is replaceable.
Had to laugh. The kids stuffed something in the drive and I can't get it out. So I bought a 2tb external and only buy digital. Doesn't bother me too much, cause there's no blu ray or anything fancy, so I don't need it.

Plus I really like digital media. Buy all my PC games and movies that way. And PS4 games for the kids, but the PS4 is a stinking pile of shit and I never use it.
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Old 12-20-2015, 12:16 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayabusa85 View Post
Well probably the people that realized N64 didn't even hit 40 million while PS1 surpassed 100 million

----------------------

Anyway, the Wii U isn't awful like the Wii was but there is a lot holding it back. First the same problem Nintendo always have which is not being able to shake the kiddy image hurts sales in this shooter heavy gaming culture of today.

The second problem is something they will never overcome either and that is the lack of third party support. They did a lot of damage to third party relations when they got arrogant and thought everybody had to bow to them in the industry. They tried to force ridiculous policies on third parties and then Sony came along and everybody they pissed off told them where they can stick their policies Companies like EA have never gone back short of a few games here and there. Even with the success of the Wii fad they couldn't pull in companies like EA for more than a few games. On top of that they keep releasing weak cheap systems so if a third party would entertain the thought of supporting them they get turned away from the fact that they can't simply port their current gen games.

So when it comes down to it Nintendo have to depend on themselves and there are only so many games they can release. So you are left with big gaps between the games worth buying. Which is sadly an ever shrinking list as Nintendo have been dropping the ball a lot lately. They have also pretty much tossed in the towel on the Wii U and are moving on to NX.

Then we are in an online gaming era which hurts Nintendo. Very few games even have online play on the Wii U while the structure is archaic. And some things are just downright absurd like downloads being linked to consoles and not online accounts. They also lack the bells and whistles that a lot of people have come to expect like achievement/trophy systems.

That being said all this stuff as well as other problems they face with the modern gaming community I didn't bother to post are lost on most kids. So no need to fear buying one for your kids to enjoy some Mario Kart, Smash etc.
Well put.

I did buy N64 on launch. Everything on Nintendo got a 3D facelift & think what you will about Mario but that N64 game was awesome despite the awkward controls. Wave race was tons of fun too.. Mario Kart, Goldeneye.

Was skeptical about them staying with Karts but Karts are basically flash ala.. 0 loading times. Flick the switch, game is good to go instantly.

As for Wii & their lack of anybody but themselves to put a game out, I have to admit I am impressed with their first party titles.

They are living in their own bubble & will do whatever they want, because they can & they will keep this arrogance until the bitter end. So NX can be a complete POS system. As long as they are happy with it, that's all that matters.
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