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Old 04-11-2021, 12:32 AM   #721
Mikezilla3k Mikezilla3k is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceball-one View Post
All I can say is I am LOVING Wyatt Russell in this.
He reminds me so much of his dad, his John Walker feels like a darker take on Jack Burton.
Not understanding the hate and/or surprise towards the character and his actions though. His overall arc has seemed pretty straightforward from the start.
....NGL, I did not know his father was Kurt Russell until I read this post.

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Originally Posted by spaceball-one View Post
Zack Snyder's Captain America
Also, glad to know I wasn't the only one who thought that.
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Old 04-11-2021, 02:05 AM   #722
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'Falcon and the Winter Soldier' Explores a Tragic Truth About America - Hollywood Reporter 4/9/21

Right to the point

[Show spoiler]
Quote:
John Walker wants to move the world, even if it means widening the wound. His every action, his impatience, his aggressive loudness is an effort to force change. As the conversation between him and his best friend and partner Lemar Hoskins, aka Battlestar (Cle Bennett), reveals, his efforts in Afghanistan, through which he was awarded three Medals of Honor didn’t change the world, and couldn’t be considered honorable actions in the public eye. He sees the chance to be Captain America as his only chance to prove himself a good man. But who is he moving the world for? Not for the citizens of the world displaced by the Blip, and not for those struggling to make ends meet as resources once again become subject to border regulations. John Walker wants to move the world for America, but only America as it pertains to the government. Yet he’s naive because the government that sent him to Afghanistan to fight a war in which he found no honor is the same one that gave him the shield, through which he’ll find no honor either. He serves a government driven by ulterior motives and a military-industrial complex that chews up young men and women, and leaves the country with deficits impossible to pay off.

Walker and Sam Wilson are both soldiers of modern wars, and yet they walked away from those experiences very different. Wilson turned his attention to healing, to serving as a counselor for veterans. Walker is only looking for the next war, the next target, and if the government says it’s the Flag-Smashers, then it’s the Flag-Smashers he’ll hunt down. “Power makes a person more themselves,” Lemar tells Walker, when asked if he would be concerned with the side effects of taking the Super Soldier Serum. Walker, as viewers soon find out, enhanced by the Super Soldier Serum only, becomes more insecure, more aggressive and more convinced in the moral superiority of his own government. And the death of Lemar, killed by the Flag-Smashers, unleashes something else: a walking mascot for America, the real America, in all of its carelessness, cruelty and displaced sense of justice. John Walker essentially becomes, true to his comic book moniker, a U.S. Agent.
Quote:
Can there be a new Captain America when America itself, as a whole, does not represent goodness? Is the best we can hope for a Captain of Nothing? If Sam Wilson is ultimately going to take up the shield and the mantle, then he’ll have to do so with the acknowledgment that America as it exists is a failure, the opposite of supreme. He’ll have to become a Captain America that isn’t grounded in past ideals, but one grounded in an America yet to be, one that must be created through enacting real and immediate change, by defying borders, and moving the world by healing it
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Old 04-11-2021, 03:08 AM   #723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
'Falcon and the Winter Soldier' Explores a Tragic Truth About America - Hollywood Reporter 4/9/21

Right to the point

[Show spoiler]

Ugh.. so tired of hearing stuff like this. This is only looking at things in a one-sided view, always with the goal of vilifying America.

I hope this is not the view and direction that the writers and producers of this series take. How about just looking at it as the Flag-Smashers, despite their noble intentions to make what they feel to be a better world, are carrying out radical acts of terrorism and murder, and Walker is a patriot, who also has noble intentions, with that being to bring terrorists to justice, gets caught up in committing extreme acts of terror in the process. He doesn't represent America as a whole, or our entire government. He's just an agent acting on America's behalf who becomes a bad actor that makes our country look bad.

America isn't a failure. We only have a lot of idiots living in it and running it. Not to mention, a lot of news media and pop culture exploiting it.
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Old 04-11-2021, 04:30 AM   #724
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Also, let’s not completely forget that his best friend was just killed. With the possible side effects of using the serum, his anger just overtook him. Plus, I think the person he killed was a a superpower himself, so he just kept smashing that shield into his chest till he died.


[Show spoiler]As for the Power Broker, it does seem like Sharon Carter could be the mysterious figure, but if it’s not, then she is deep undercover, for 5 yrs, trying to find out who it is. And the closet she got was to Selby.
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Old 04-11-2021, 04:38 AM   #725
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Just watched Episode 3.
[Show spoiler]Zemo makes everything better
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Old 04-11-2021, 05:46 AM   #726
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Is it just me, or is this show trying really hard to say terrorists should be empathized with? I mean I am not the most conservative dude, but if someone
[Show spoiler] blows up a building with people in it, you are on the "not going to like you" list. I mean, either that or the show is having a really hard time selling me the afterblip politics, cuz who in the audience cares about the freckle chick's reasons for this? Cuz they lost the no borders, or kicked out of their new homes when people came back? Pretty lame excuses for radicalism imo, did I miss something? Was there a line I missed that explained why Sam and Bucky arent just putting boots to these guys? I'm having a hard time going along with the show since it started focusing on these peoples "plight". She threatened to kill Sam's family, its just weird that the show won't paint her as a full villian. Heck, Zemo has been less evil than her?!?


Just has made it confusing in a way that doesn't feel intentional.
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Old 04-11-2021, 06:59 AM   #727
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Originally Posted by Tony208 View Post
Guess Sam gets the shield back next episode.
My guess is the end of Episode 6.
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Old 04-11-2021, 07:53 AM   #728
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Originally Posted by Stanis View Post
Is it just me, or is this show trying really hard to say terrorists should be empathized with?
I think the Super Soldier serum is warping her idealism into violence.
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Old 04-11-2021, 08:11 AM   #729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstream View Post
Ugh.. so tired of hearing stuff like this. This is only looking at things in a one-sided view, always with the goal of vilifying America.

I hope this is not the view and direction that the writers and producers of this series take. How about just looking at it as the Flag-Smashers, despite their noble intentions to make what they feel to be a better world, are carrying out radical acts of terrorism and murder, and Walker is a patriot, who also has noble intentions, with that being to bring terrorists to justice, gets caught up in committing extreme acts of terror in the process. He doesn't represent America as a whole, or our entire government. He's just an agent acting on America's behalf who becomes a bad actor that makes our country look bad.

America isn't a failure. We only have a lot of idiots living in it and running it. Not to mention, a lot of news media and pop culture exploiting it.
Your not dealing with the fictional "comic book" environment represented in this series where you had a lot of damage from the infinity war/end game scenario, just look at how the superhero's are looked at by the American politicians, military, and police. In both this series and wandavision. Captain America was not just a patriot, he was a real hero how helped others win the war, and beat the red skull. Remember how he was totally lost when he woke up, and was wondering how to fit in, that when Fury recognized he was the perfect person to bring some team building to the avengers. Colonel Walker was far from his background a little guy determined to make a difference. Yes they took a war hero to be Captain America and in a sense they didn't know if he was even of the same stature to represent his predecessor. Well they assumed wrong. So his buddy got killed, was that a excuse to go tearing after any of the people in the room and kill them? Steve lost Bucky and continued. The show is showing how really nice it is for superheroes post xfinity war/end game and the blip.

Big reminder please leave out real politics when interpreting what America represents in this fictional work, its not the same.

Last edited by JohnAV; 04-11-2021 at 08:16 AM.
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Old 04-11-2021, 08:34 AM   #730
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Originally Posted by supersix4 View Post
His odd nose, his chalkboard voice, his goofy chin in an iconic outfit fans have associated with Chris Evens for 10 years lol what could possibly go wrong

I wouldn't mind him if he was in another outfit but it makes the show almost unwatchable to see the guy walking around with the shield.
Horse$hit ! He's a vet that watched his best friend die in front of him .
And Disney+ gave him that outfit so the hate he has received is BS !
He has been one of the best part of this series !
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Old 04-11-2021, 09:09 AM   #731
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Originally Posted by Darkstream View Post
Ugh.. so tired of hearing stuff like this. This is only looking at things in a one-sided view, always with the goal of vilifying America.

I hope this is not the view and direction that the writers and producers of this series take. How about just looking at it as the Flag-Smashers, despite their noble intentions to make what they feel to be a better world, are carrying out radical acts of terrorism and murder, and Walker is a patriot, who also has noble intentions, with that being to bring terrorists to justice, gets caught up in committing extreme acts of terror in the process. He doesn't represent America as a whole, or our entire government. He's just an agent acting on America's behalf who becomes a bad actor that makes our country look bad.

America isn't a failure. We only have a lot of idiots living in it and running it. Not to mention, a lot of news media and pop culture exploiting it.
I'm not even American and I agree with you, in the UK we're seeing the same attitude. The younger generation has been taught the UK and its past is nothing but evil colonialists and they now think our own flag is racist. This attitude has been peddled by our own teachers in school, politicians on the left and the media.

We should be inspired to be the best version of ourselves. And do better, I remember this was the attitude of the 80's and 90's and to not have constant commentary through our media of how bad we are all the time, look up, not drag ourselves down. Writers really need to good talking to or they need to walk.
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Old 04-11-2021, 09:18 AM   #732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BerryTheMusicMan View Post
Horse$hit ! He's a vet that watched his best friend die in front of him .
And Disney+ gave him that outfit so the hate he has received is BS !
He has been one of the best part of this series !
Did you consider that Walker got his friend killed because he kept taking him into situations that were highly dangerous? Also he might not have been thinking rationally juiced up with the venom that Lamar was worried about the possible side effects. Either case this last scene is not the first time walker was directed to stand down and wait, he had a aggressive streak that was shown multiple times in these last two episodes.
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Old 04-11-2021, 12:03 PM   #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmittysGelato View Post
Just watched Episode 3.
[Show spoiler]Zemo makes everything better
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Old 04-11-2021, 12:22 PM   #734
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
Did you consider that Walker got his friend killed because he kept taking him into situations that were highly dangerous?
I always find it weird in these shows when people are fighting each other with everything they've got and then act surprised when someone actually gets killed. What did they think was going to happen? Only bad guys get killed?

I watched a lot of reaction videos for this episode and everyone mentioned how chilling that last shot was.

On a lighter note, this cracks me up:

Last edited by rikraq; 04-11-2021 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 04-11-2021, 12:31 PM   #735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstream View Post
Ugh.. so tired of hearing stuff like this. This is only looking at things in a one-sided view, always with the goal of vilifying America.

I hope this is not the view and direction that the writers and producers of this series take. How about just looking at it as the Flag-Smashers, despite their noble intentions to make what they feel to be a better world, are carrying out radical acts of terrorism and murder, and Walker is a patriot, who also has noble intentions, with that being to bring terrorists to justice, gets caught up in committing extreme acts of terror in the process. He doesn't represent America as a whole, or our entire government. He's just an agent acting on America's behalf who becomes a bad actor that makes our country look bad.

America isn't a failure. We only have a lot of idiots living in it and running it. Not to mention, a lot of news media and pop culture exploiting it.
But you have to admit, those numbers and getting worse and worse every year. I mean its 2021, and we saw our own citizens not only attack the Capital, but they had 'alleged leaders' inside tweeting where they should go to find other leaders to harm them.

America isn't a failure yet, but we are certainly headed that way. Sadly. I do sometimes wish all the daily nonsense was a TV show.


I was at my brother's house yesterday and he wanted to start watching this. But he didn't even know who Bucky was. I quickly discovered he hadn't seen most of the old MCU films, so we started up The First Avenger instead. Been ages since I've seen that movie.

Last edited by Britbuffguy; 04-11-2021 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 04-11-2021, 12:54 PM   #736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstream View Post
Ugh.. so tired of hearing stuff like this. This is only looking at things in a one-sided view, always with the goal of vilifying America.

I hope this is not the view and direction that the writers and producers of this series take. How about just looking at it as the Flag-Smashers, despite their noble intentions to make what they feel to be a better world, are carrying out radical acts of terrorism and murder, and Walker is a patriot, who also has noble intentions, with that being to bring terrorists to justice, gets caught up in committing extreme acts of terror in the process. He doesn't represent America as a whole, or our entire government. He's just an agent acting on America's behalf who becomes a bad actor that makes our country look bad.

America isn't a failure. We only have a lot of idiots living in it and running it. Not to mention, a lot of news media and pop culture exploiting it.
I was thinking about this the other day.

On the whole I dislike patriotism, also I'm English so the "America" part had zero appeal, yet Cap was my favourite of the MCU heroes, due to his unflinching morality.

"Captain America" made sense in wartime, with the need for jingoism to rally people to essentially sacrifice themselves, but I think whilst Sam should keep the shield as a symbolism for morality, perhaps he doesnt need the title of "Captain America". Especially with The Avengers being a global (even Universal) force not tied to a particular Government.
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Old 04-11-2021, 01:38 PM   #737
Ernest Rister Ernest Rister is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
Did you consider that Walker got his friend killed because he kept taking him into situations that were highly dangerous? Also he might not have been thinking rationally juiced up with the venom that Lamar was worried about the possible side effects. Either case this last scene is not the first time walker was directed to stand down and wait, he had a aggressive streak that was shown multiple times in these last two episodes.
Walker was
[Show spoiler]cast in a role and expected to be Cap right out of the gate live up to Steve Rogers. But Steve earned and demonstrated his qualities first, before he was Captain America. Walker is so insecure in trying to be Cap, he's turned himself into a monster. You can see him starting to lose it in the second episode. So, like a pro athlete afraid of failure, he "juices" himself, thinking that will solve his inadequacies. Where does Walker open up about the pressures and doubts he has? Why, in a football locker room, of course.

Last edited by Ernest Rister; 04-11-2021 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 04-11-2021, 01:59 PM   #738
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Originally Posted by Britbuffguy View Post
But you have to admit, those numbers and getting worse and worse every year. I mean its 2021, and we saw our own citizens not only attack the Capital, but they had 'alleged leaders' inside tweeting where they should go to find other leaders to harm them.

America isn't a failure yet, but we are certainly headed that way. Sadly. I do sometimes wish all the daily nonsense was a TV show.


I was at my brother's house yesterday and he wanted to start watching this. But he didn't even know who Bucky was. I quickly discovered he hadn't seen most of the old MCU films, so we started up The First Avenger instead. Been ages since I've seen that movie.
Just to jump in here and then quickly jump out. The idea of America is a good one, to bad the people keep invalidating it.
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Old 04-11-2021, 04:36 PM   #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post
'Falcon and the Winter Soldier' Explores a Tragic Truth About America - Hollywood Reporter 4/9/21

Right to the point

[Show spoiler]


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Old 04-11-2021, 05:20 PM   #740
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I think FATWS is the most morally complex thing Marvel Studios has attempted to date. The line between good and evil has never been more obscured in the MCU. I'm loving the hell out of it!
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