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Old 08-04-2019, 10:47 PM   #1
tripletopper tripletopper is offline
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Cool 3D adoption rates vs 5.1+ adoption rates

Right now, I dare you to find a TV with mono and no capacity to add stereo..

So Stereo is the basic standard that everyone folows, just like color.

Currently sound at %.1 channels and/or headphone converter that use that signal asa baseline uis totaly popitonal. A big pervcentage of fns have them. But tís not common enough to ay itís universal.

I know 7.1 and Atmos andDTSX came out and that prbably has a lower oadoption rate than 5.1

I do remember that 30% of households had a 3D "TV". (Did that include Playstation 3D Displays? Does that include Nintendo 3DSes? Computer monitors with 3D?) at the time when it was reported that the 3D Super Bowl would exclude 70% of houses, which is why the broadcast was aborted.

If I remember right, the first home 3D TVs were made in either 2009 or 2010. So in 3-4 years the household adoption in America was 30%

What percentage of households had Dolby/DTS 5.1 in Laser Disc days, 3-4 years after being introduced.

The funny thing is despite what i suspect s a lower adoption rate, movies as far back as Laser Discs and game systems as far back as Playstation 2 and Original Xbox had at least Dolby 5.1 support (movies had DTS, games did not unless it was software specific until Playstation 3.) and almost all discs have at least 1 of the three 5.1+ languages, and all of them were Pro Logic, Stereo, and even Mono compatible.

3D was probably bigger faster, but they couldnít find a way to delver content to everyone who wanted one, yet carried the knuckle draggers along by making a 3D movie 2D Compatible. So they had the segregated model. There were extreme surpluses and shortages in the 3D market. And after the first run, that's usually it for 3D.
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:12 PM   #2
Lee A Stewart Lee A Stewart is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripletopper View Post
Right now, I dare you to find a TV with mono and no capacity to add stereo..

So Stereo is the basic standard that everyone folows, just like color.

Currently sound at %.1 channels and/or headphone converter that use that signal asa baseline uis totaly popitonal. A big pervcentage of fns have them. But tís not common enough to ay itís universal.

I know 7.1 and Atmos andDTSX came out and that prbably has a lower oadoption rate than 5.1

I do remember that 30% of households had a 3D "TV". (Did that include Playstation 3D Displays? Does that include Nintendo 3DSes? Computer monitors with 3D?) at the time when it was reported that the 3D Super Bowl would exclude 70% of houses, which is why the broadcast was aborted.

If I remember right, the first home 3D TVs were made in either 2009 or 2010. So in 3-4 years the household adoption in America was 30%

What percentage of households had Dolby/DTS 5.1 in Laser Disc days, 3-4 years after being introduced.

The funny thing is despite what i suspect s a lower adoption rate, movies as far back as Laser Discs and game systems as far back as Playstation 2 and Original Xbox had at least Dolby 5.1 support (movies had DTS, games did not unless it was software specific until Playstation 3.) and almost all discs have at least 1 of the three 5.1+ languages, and all of them were Pro Logic, Stereo, and even Mono compatible.

3D was probably bigger faster, but they couldnít find a way to delver content to everyone who wanted one, yet carried the knuckle draggers along by making a 3D movie 2D Compatible. So they had the segregated model. There were extreme surpluses and shortages in the 3D market. And after the first run, that's usually it for 3D.
The first 3D TVs came out after CES 2010 - approx. March/April 2010.

Laserdisc is a very bad example to use. At it's height of popularity, it never went past 2% of USA households. And AC-3 and DTS (on LD it was one or the other - not both) were very late to the LD format - only a few years before the format ended. October 3, 2000 was the last No. American LD release; Paramount's Bringing Out the Dead.

Yep - about 30% of USA households had a 3D TV by 2015. But how many were actually using the 3D feature? That stat is unknown. Guesstimates say less than 15%.

It became very clear that seeing a 3D movie in a theater was totally different than watching one at home. That is why 3D in theaters continues today and for the foreseeable future while 3D at home died.
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Old 08-06-2019, 06:42 PM   #3
Paul H Paul H is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart View Post
It became very clear that seeing a 3D movie in a theater was totally different than watching one at home. That is why 3D in theaters continues today and for the foreseeable future while 3D at home died.
A confusing conundrum.
I often wonder if the industry took a self-preservation approach, banning together from fear of losing audiences and the theatrical-projection edge.
Successfully developing pristine 3D imaging technology via the passive "direct-view" 1:1 self-illuminating pixel mapping capability of UHD OLED 3D displays in the home environment?
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:20 PM   #4
Lee A Stewart Lee A Stewart is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
A confusing conundrum.
I often wonder if the industry took a self-preservation approach, banning together from fear of losing audiences and the theatrical-projection edge.
Successfully developing pristine 3D imaging technology via the passive "direct-view" 1:1 self-illuminating pixel mapping capability of UHD OLED 3D displays in the home environment?
The quality of 3D at home has nothing to do with it's demise. It was and is strictly "the way people watch TV at home."

The reason why it continues in the theater should be self explanatory: Bunch of people sitting in a dark room staring up at a screen for two hours.

Now compare that to watching TV at home . . . All kinds of distractions: cell phone, talking with family, laying down, not sitting up to watch. Numerous trips to the kitchen or bathroom. Doing homework. Reading magazines. Cruising social media. Almost all of those can't be done wearing 3D glasses.

You have to do the same thing at home that you do in a theater to watch 3D . . . turn the lights down/off, sit up and stare only at the display. Way too restrictive.
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:16 PM   #5
tripletopper tripletopper is offline
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I guess adoption rates of related technology depends on each other. For example, before DVD, the only POSSIBLE universe fopr 5.1 is the interseciotn of LD owners, and those who want and can afford surround sound. (LD AND surround buyers) TV didn't have it yet.

When DVD and HD 5.1 TV came out it was the intersection of surround buyers and the union of LD Owners, HD TV owners, and DVD owners, or

SS and (LD or HDTV or DVD)

(LD or HDTV or DVD) is a larger pool than just LD

The 3D pool would be 3D display owners, period. Everyone who has an ATSC tuner/cable/satellite is potentially a 3D customer, but if the original idea was tio watch 3D broadcasts. That's why the adoption rate is high.

However the big difference is that those who bought it just for 3D broadcasts are only disappointed, bdecause of the 70% who didin't own 3D TV being angry at the NFL for ruining their Super Bowl if it were in 3D, no one in rthe US broadcast full color 3D since.

So basically 3D is now the intersection of 3D display owners and the union of 3D game owners and 3D Blu Ray owners

3DD and (3DG or 3DBD)

That's why I say the big Jump the Shark moment was the aborted 3D Super Bowl, because then it was dependent on other factors, like owning a PS3, or PC 3D display ability , pr a Blu Ray Player, (which the PS3 was bought frequently just as a BD and later a free 3DBD download).

Canceling 3D broadcasts/cable/satellite cut the 3D audience by half. Notice Youtube does 3D video in a 2D friendly way By having a 3D button start in 2D and letting you choose between Left, Right, red and cyan, atterrnate frames. side-by-side half, side-by-side full, top and bottom half, and top and bottom full, some 3D videos are viral without the 2D rejection that the Super Bowl got.

The secret is to get back to 3D broadcasting, and to make 3D very 2D friendly, like 5.1+ audio formats are stereo-friendly,
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:38 PM   #6
Lee A Stewart Lee A Stewart is online now
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Why We're Glad the Super Bowl Isn't in 3D

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cul...ootball-in-3d/

No 3D Super Bowl Again: 4 Reasons Why

https://www.cepro.com/article/no_3d_..._4_reasons_why

Shambling corpse of 3D TV finally falls down dead

https://www.cnet.com/news/shambling-...lls-down-dead/

3D TV is finally, blessedly, mercifully, dead ó will VR follow suit?

https://www.extremetech.com/electron...vr-follow-suit
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:40 PM   #7
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And now . . . a glimmer of hope for all you rabid 3D fans . . .

The new ATSC 3.0 OTA Broadcast System supports 3D in 1080i, 1080P, 2160P and 4320P

But don't get your hopes up.
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:34 AM   #8
tripletopper tripletopper is offline
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30% adoption rate in 3 years is high.

As I said, technologies that depend on other technolgies automatically have a smaller adoption rate. So saying Dobly/DTs 5.1 has a 1.5% adoption rate, for example when Laser Disc has 2% and was the only technology until DVD, HDTV, certain PC games, PS2 and Xbox, then it makes sense 5.1 is that low. What it also shows is 75% of LD users buy a sound system.

Probably a more less example is comparing 3D TV to Color TV and Stereo MTS TV.

B/W compatible color was introduced in 1953 and by 1963, color adoption rate was 8.4% in the US.

.Stereo TV a little harder to pinpoint. There was originally FM simulcast, then there was MTS. I don’t know the apopdtion rate, but, anecdotally, during the start of the MTS era, I (through my dad) was the the only one of my friends with any Stereo movie player (Mine was a Beta Hi Fi stereo.) and MTS stereo, and twin sepakrs close to the TV. A little anecdotal. but no where near the 30% in 3 years for 3D TV.

If 3D was apopted fast and wider than color or stereo, why is 3D considered dead and buried in the US? Becuase:

a) I think your articles didn;taddress the lelphant in the room @Lee_A_Stewart 3D would not be impractical, if one thing that didn’t occur in Stereo or Color, also didn’t happen in 3D, but it did. Even though 30% of the US households had 3D, 70% of the households compalined there was no 2D version of the Super Bowl, and a side-by-side half 3D presentation would necessarily and autoatically ruin it for the 2SD population. That’s when 3D hatred became a badge of hnor, and 3D was scoffed at.

If 70% of the audiences could have watched the 2D Superbowl, and parties had a "3D room" with their limited glasses and a 2D room which was bigger, we would not be having these conversations right now. TV shows were broadcast in the 50s with a UHF chroma sub carrier and no one had color. The only reason I wrongly associated it with the 60s is because Color TVs weren’t cheap enough until 1964.

b) When the cheapest 3D TV was a $500 PS3D TV when the federal minuimum wage was $7.25, minumim wage was 75 cents and a color TV cost was $1000, and n 1964 color TVs were $400 and minimum wage was $1.25

That means it takes a mimimum wage worker in 1954 1333 Hours and 20 minutes saved up to buy a color TV in 1954 if one need absolutely nothing else. a 1964 minimum wage worker takes 320 straight hours of work, Yet no one hated color TV, most people asprired to get color TV.

If I have been a little more gung-ho about 3D and wanted a 3D in 2010, it would have taken me, an eventually repating decimal number of hours just below 69 hours to buy a PS3DTV. By the time 2012 came, (I don't remeber whether it was the 2011-2012 season, or the 2012-2013 season, so I don’t knw how that played in my decision) but on December 2012, when the PS3D TV cost $199, and minimum wage was the same $7.25, I got it for just under 27.5 hours That’s less than a week’s worth of labor. it took me 4 months to save for a PS3DTV, and I’m on social Security disability working (before being declared disabled) mostly part-time close-to-minimum wage labor.

People not wanting a 3D TV wasn’t a factor. 3/10 houses had it. People not being able to afford a 3D TV was not a factor either, if I, a disabled autistic person since I was a young boy, could afford a 3D TV.. The reason why Americans hated 3D broadcasts was because the way the 3D broadcasting system was designed, you a) have to watch it in 3D, b) have t always wear the glasses and c) it was impossible to watch the Super Bowl in 2D with either a 2D or even a 3D TV.

The cheapest way it can be stopped was to cancel the 3D portion broadcast, by a letter writing campaign to the NFL and whatever network broadcasted it that year and threats of the lowest rated Super Bowl ever, not because of desire but because of technical inability,. Plus Americans don’t like being told they HAVE TO watch it in 3D with glasses just to enjoy basic tv, or not watch it all.

The only other option was to ship 3D-to-2D converter boxes between the time that fact was found out and the Saturday before the Super Bowl.

If they would have waited a year or 2 and considered an Alternate Frames standard with one eye locked out in 2D more or on older TVs, then you can record it in 3D and play it live or on tape in one time in 2D and another time in 3D. Heck, it’s even compatible with DVD-Rs if yo can embed the sync signal with an inaudible electronic signal alternating between L eye and R eye on L audio and R audio, respectively.

It would have looked kind of like this without 3D glasses! (EPILEPTICS, DO NOT PRESS PLAY! HEALTH WARNING!)

Last edited by tripletopper; 08-07-2019 at 12:41 AM. Reason: forgot b) and link didn’t work
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Old 08-07-2019, 01:50 PM   #9
Lee A Stewart Lee A Stewart is online now
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What If They Gave A Party, But No One Came?

Quote:
writer Ryan Nakashima details how, despite millions of dollars in advertising and promotion over the past 3+ years, American TV viewers have basically ignored 3D TV.

According to the story, “…fewer than 115,000 American TV homes are tuned in to 3D at any given time. That’s less than a hundredth of the 20.2 million-strong audience that watched television’s highest-rated show, NCIS, this week.”
Quote:
Last November, the Leichtman Research Group polled 1,300 viewers who had watched 3D TV. Of that group, 38 percent rated 3D TV ‘poor,’ as opposed to just 8 percent who rated it excellent. Those numbers have been pretty consistent in several polls since the first 3D TVs came to market in early 2009.
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/tag/3d/


The Future of 3D TV and Why ESPN Dropped Its Pioneering Channel (Analysis)

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/be...hy-espn-568445
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:55 PM   #10
Paul H Paul H is offline
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Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart View Post
And now . . . a glimmer of hope for all you rabid 3D fans . . .

The new ATSC 3.0 OTA Broadcast System supports 3D in 1080i, 1080P, 2160P and 4320P
Do you know if the ATSC 3.0 Standard includes Video System Characteristics for MVC 3D?
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Old 08-07-2019, 09:10 PM   #11
Lee A Stewart Lee A Stewart is online now
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Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
Do you know if the ATSC 3.0 Standard includes Video System Characteristics for MVC 3D?
https://www.atsc.org/search-results/...m_query=MVC+3D
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