IS Peter Parker Dead?

[rdm5777]

Originally Posted by MykeHavoc

See, it's fans like you that I truly sympathize for. As you mentioned, Spidey has been the butt of a lot of bad ideas but always seemed to bounce back. I enjoy the character but have never been a "lifer"; that honor goes to Batman, whom has gone through similar controversial storylines, but by writers who seem to be much more thoughtful and talented. Morrison's work is a prime example of how to do something like this and make it work. It opened so much up for exploring new angles of classic characters without betraying the fans. For your sake, I do hope this is just another temporary gimmick that gets retconned in a year or so. But in the mean time, I feel for yah, man.

My apologies for derailing the thread a bit but as a Batman "lifer" how do you feel about Batman and his extended family in the new 52? I'm reading the Death of the Family storyline in the main book only and just can't get in to it. I feel like the whole Joker

[Show spoiler]skin/face

thing is just forced. Also, hasn't Batman suffered the most in a sense with the reboot due to DC wanting to have it's cake and eat it too by having the Batbooks partake in the reboot but still saying that all the previous stories happened (Year One, Killing Joke, etc).

[blu-ray_girl_fan]

I read the entire Amazing Spider-girl mini-arc last month and enjoyed that universe. I think I'll leave my Spider-reading at that. Doc Ock in Peter Parker's body while crushing on Aunt May?

[Shinzero02]

I would've liked it if it wasn't written so poorly. I say its written poorly because despite the scenario being set up over many issues, the actual meat of the issues were brief and rushed. The last few pages were the worst, with the Peter mind in Ock literally giving up and trusting Otto to do the right thing from now on despite the guy literally proving that he's a complete monster that shouldn't be trusted. Not to mention that Otto's mind in Peter's Body is all kinds of messed up when you consider the guy was with Aunt May and now is with MJ. On a moral level, this is kinda like what happened to Ms. Marvel back in the day...

Also, it was poorly executed in universe as well. The attitude change in the issues were so blatantly obvious that other heroes and his friends/family should've noticed something was wrong from the get-go. Not to mention the numerous psychics that inhabit the setting that should be able to tell something is wrong immediately.

No, this was a blatant "lets reboot spidey to be edgy" thing. Which like all major comic changes sells well for a few months despite longterm fan outcry then settles back to the norm.

Slott though... he's a dick. Both in his attitude towards the complaints of fans and the idea itself. Then there is his reaction to the leaked scans a few weeks ago and how he kept telling fans to read the actual issue before judging him despite there literally being no difference. The whole "Superior Spider-Man" monologue at the end of the issue should go down next to Darth Vader's Episode 3 "Nooooo" in silly overdramatic dialogue.

Though, when you consider that that they blatantly killed off Peter Parker over in the Ultimate universe and almost instantly replaced him with someone else with the same exact power set... well I guess Stan Lee is the only person at Marvel that actually likes Spider-Man enough to not need to replace him either physically or spiritually.

Personally, I think they should've merged both Peter and Otto's minds as a new 'persona' entirely instead of making it blatantly clear that it is Doctor Octopus in Peter Parker's body that just happens to have knowledge of every experience Peter had and is only a good guy because of that. Its like the writer wanted to kill Peter Parker but didn't have the balls to actually do it since the core Peter Parker is still there, just being controlled by Otto.

If you want Peter Parker to have a change in personality, you could just kill Aunt May. The guy already gave up a happy marriage with MJ over her in the dumbest Spidey storyline ever and she's drawn to look like a mummy.

Though in the long run... X-men pulled this crap first with Psylocke and Kwannon. I guess Mojo will be happy with improved Spider-man related ratings...


As for Batman... I don't like any of the DC reboot though I find Batman to be the worst since they're cramming so much into such a little time frame and some characters are just missing.

[MykeHavoc]

Originally Posted by rdm5777

My apologies for derailing the thread a bit but as a Batman "lifer" how do you feel about Batman and his extended family in the new 52? I'm reading the Death of the Family storyline in the main book only and just can't get in to it. I feel like the whole Joker

[Show spoiler]skin/face

thing is just forced. Also, hasn't Batman suffered the most in a sense with the reboot due to DC wanting to have it's cake and eat it too by having the Batbooks partake in the reboot but still saying that all the previous stories happened (Year One, Killing Joke, etc).

I know we have an official Batman thread, so if we get into a conversation, we can take it there, but to answer your question I'm still fairly content with where the bat books are at. Certainly a bit of a drop mainly due to stopping everything cold, as there was some decent stories revving prior to the reboot.

I understood the importance of the New 52 from a business standpoint, but it does seem to have created more issues story-wise for what was likely conceived initially as a purging of continuity restrictions. Now we've just got a bunch of books with inconsistent timelines from one another and vast histories of cherry-picked elements crammed into short time-spans.

But I just look at it as this: comics have always been this way. They should stop being concerned with tying up loose-ends all the time and just create great stories, because artwork and writing styles change and evolve, tones shift, characters die and come back. Mistakes are made, lessons are learned. The history of these books are fascinating and there's no need to shy away from what's been established. If you can tell a great story and sneak in some corrective surgery (Geoff Johns was the king of this last decade) then great. But a quality product should be first and foremost.

As for the latest Joker stuff, I was really impressed with them ending Detective #1 last year with the infamous shot of

[Show spoiler]Joker's Face nailed to the wall

. I thought it was a great, controversial move to get the line started with and also served as a clever way to take the character out of the universe for a bit to rebuild excitement for the inevitable return. Sure, the "Leatherface" thing going on may seem a bit strange or over the top for some, but as a fan of Snyder's work, it's not really all that big of a surprise.

Remember, this is the guy that made James Gordon Jr. a sociopath. He created American Vampire and wrote a book of horror shorts. It's his element. And fan response has been strong. Plus after Morrison's run, I think it's safe to say that you could introduce any bizarre or twisted element into the Batman related titles and not really have current fans bat an eye. I'm most excited to see if he can pull off Superman next year, since Morrison's run is ending and I'll need need to get my Man of Steel fix somewhere.

If you're reading Death of the Family, I suggest reading the crossover titles to help fill out the story. While the heart of it is certainly in Snyder's book, the Joker is a character that has a deeply personal history with all the Bat family, and some poignant and chilling moments have been touched upon thus far, which I'm sure will carry into next month.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by The Valeyard

You mean like Peter and MJ's marriage?

That's not a reboot. The stories still happened. Just certain aspects were changed.

The entire canon wasn't tossed out and rewritten. Characters weren't written out of existence.

[Clark Kent]

I still can't get over Marvel having Peter reveal his identity and then mindwiping the universe to forget it. Decades ago, stories like this were left to What If comics.

[brownsfan1]

Originally Posted by rdm5777

Brownsfans1, why did you stick around after Brand New Day?

It was more out of habit at the time, but as i said, i grew to enjoy the stories they were telling. Granted, I think they could have told the same types of stories with Peter still being married, but thats not what they chose to do.

And they should have let May die. I am sorry, but what purpose exactly does she serve at this point? Before all of this Otto/Peter stuff started there was no point to having her in the book anymore, at least on a regular basis. If you want characters to progress naturally, there are great stories to be told out there after May is dead. Peter and MJ could say their goodbyes to her, give her the proper sendoff her character deserves, and be done with it. There, One More Day never had to happen! lol

[rexxriot]

Originally Posted by brownsfan1

It was more out of habit at the time, but as i said, i grew to enjoy the stories they were telling. Granted, I think they could have told the same types of stories with Peter still being married, but thats not what they chose to do.

And they should have let May die. I am sorry, but what purpose exactly does she serve at this point? Before all of this Otto/Peter stuff started there was no point to having her in the book anymore, at least on a regular basis. If you want characters to progress naturally, there are great stories to be told out there after May is dead. Peter and MJ could say their goodbyes to her, give her the proper sendoff her character deserves, and be done with it. There, One More Day never had to happen! lol

They already gave May the proper send-off way back in Amazing 400. Damn Clone Saga.

[brownsfan1]

Originally Posted by rexxriot

They already gave May the proper send-off way back in Amazing 400. Damn Clone Saga.

Ugh, i know! It was perfect! That was bush league. DeMattis wrote the hell out of that, and they just threw it away.

[Clark Kent]

I thought all this nonsense could be confined to the Ultimate Universe, but Marvel has based their entire universe the last decade on status quo-changing events to help sales. It's a never-ending mousewheel they can never get off, as the more staid fans have already jumped ship.

[The Valeyard]

Originally Posted by Beast

That's not a reboot. The stories still happened. Just certain aspects were changed.

The entire canon wasn't tossed out and rewritten. Characters weren't written out of existence.

So in other words....a reboot.

[ghostwhowalks]

So glad I quit collecting Spider-man a few years ago.

[Gold Ranger]

Sins Past was my Final Issue...