Midnight Cowboy (1969)

[PowellPressburger]

The final shots of this post of grabs those whites are no longer white

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=181

[JoeBuck]

Been meaning to post my follow up now that I've watched the whole disc.
The first 5 minutes of the movie (under the credits) definitely looks the worst with the more greenish appearance to it, but most of the shots with the heaviest look are, as mentioned, under fluorescent lights (as I said, you can see the glow of the light Ralph was standing under when Joe comes in to say goodbye).

Some staining is still apparent when Joe is on the bus to New York, you can see tinges of yellow which I'm assuming they werent able to get rid of without causing worse problems. It doesnt last very long though.

Most of the movie is free of damage and as Svet says in his review, the party sequence especially looks incredible (as does everything past it). Very beautiful colours and a lot of detail.

[JoeBuck]

Originally Posted by PowellPressburger

The final shots of this post of grabs those whites are no longer white

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=181

Apparently you didnt read my initial posts about the disc, I've already stated after watching my disc that its due to the lights of the diner, which are very apparent when you watch the disc. My guess is that they incorrectly timed it out on the first disc like major studios tend to do (see Fox's Rocky Horror for example).

[MikeZ.]

Mine is in transit, but really looking forward to this, as I never bought the VHS, DVD, or other BDs. I always knew Criterion would get to it (never did Laserdisc, so that doesn't count in my life).

Thanks for the reassurance " Joe Buck."

[PowellPressburger]

Originally Posted by JoeBuck

Apparently you didnt read my initial posts about the disc, I've already stated after watching my disc that its due to the lights of the diner, which are very apparent when you watch the disc. My guess is that they incorrectly timed it out on the first disc like major studios tend to do (see Fox's Rocky Horror for example).

sorry somehow missed your older post with your cell phone pics.

It doesn't seem as drastic in your pics as the other screen grabs.

It will be here Tuesday. Probably glance at it real quick but will save it for next weekend.

[JoeBuck]

Originally Posted by PowellPressburger

sorry somehow missed your older post with your cell phone pics.

It doesn't seem as drastic in your pics as the other screen grabs.

It will be here Tuesday. Probably glance at it real quick but will save it for next weekend.

Indeed, the screenshots on here are also darker than whats on disc (at least with my set up).
When I watched it the only scenes that had overt green lean were the stuff under fluorescent lights, so 42nd st, some diners, the bus that Joe and Ratso are on at the end...I was very pleased with how it looked in motion.
The only scenes that looked off were the black and white stuff which now resembles the blue tinted b&w like Solaris had.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Dailyan

Just because you don't like how it looks; don't claim "it shouldn't be there at all." There's cases of real revisionism (Most of Leone's films, Pathe's release Le Samurai, Shout's release of The Thing) and then there's restoring films that had stylized lighting and coloring.

It might not even be stylized. A lot of this film was shot on location and if it had florescent lighting, they didn't necessarily adjust white balance for it because they wanted it to look stark and real and not like a studio film.

A number of films in that era, especially films shot in NYC, look like documentaries. The French Connection looks that way (aside from the Blu revisionism issues) as does this film. As to whether this new Blu (or even a previous one) looks like the original theatrical (which I saw back in the day) or the restored version that I saw a few years ago at an Academy event in NYC, I probably couldn't say and I really fail to see how anyone could unless they were the film's editor or colorist and saw the original hundreds of times.

Just because something looks greenish doesn't mean it didn't originally look that way, even if it originally looked that way due to sloppiness or error.

[Fat Phil]

After spending some time with this disc, I think it's an excellent transfer and IMO it's been beautifully graded.

It's absolutely not a blanket tint (or any other such phrase people like to bandy around). Yes there is a green/teal push in some scenes. Notice I said 'some' there'. I underlined that f***er too . Also definitely worth noting that it's far more nuanced on a calibrated TV than the screenshots look on an uncalibrated computer monitor. I know, shocker, right!

To reiterate ZoetMB's point - For the most part, if there's a scene shot in a bar, then it's a real bar, not a set. A lot of the time, natural (or simply available) light has been used - Adam Holender mentions as much in one of the new special features.

Example - If you watch Joe Buck as he walks through Times Square at night (37:23), past all the storefronts, keep an eye out when the camera is on him and he walks past windows and doors - for a second he in bathed in the green light of the fluorescent tubes, but as he clears the light, colours return to a more 'natural' state....until he passes the next window and is once again bathed in the green fluorescent light. Now if you were to take a screenshot of one of those 'greener' frames, you'd think the whole scene is graded that way, but you're missing the complete picture.

If you're particularly attached to the colours of the older MGM disc (or you're looking at side by side comparisons) then the new colours may come as a shock and you may struggle with this new presentation, but there's nothing to indicate those were 'correct'. The Criterion on the other hand at least referenced a 35mm theatrical print supervised by director John Schlesinger, producer Jerome Hellman, and cinematographer Adam Holender. So there's that.

To my eyes, this is a beauty and I can't see myself ever going back to the MGM but to each their own. For those that feel it's not for them, the MGM is still available.

[ROSS.T.G.]

I want to pick this up but I don’t think I’ll watch it more than once more. I watched it several times when I was younger and it’s an exceptional film though.

I always think of Seinfeld when they spoof the bus scene. Lol

[Fat Phil]

Perhaps wait for a Criterion sale or something but i'd definitely urge you to revisit

[ROSS.T.G.]

I was thinking that but Criterion’s are insanely expensive in Canada and they rarely go on sale. Canucks always get hosed!!

[JoeBuck]

Originally Posted by ROSS.T.G.

I was thinking that but Criterion’s are insanely expensive in Canada and they rarely go on sale. Canucks always get hosed!!

Barnes and Noble actually has pretty reasonable shipping to Canada. If you're buying more than one movie its definitely worth it as well.

[ROSS.T.G.]

Originally Posted by JoeBuck

Barnes and Noble actually has pretty reasonable shipping to Canada. If you're buying more than one movie its definitely worth it as well.

I’ll look into that thanks.

[Dailyan]

Picked up my copy today; it’s even more gorgeous in motion.

[Stationary Explorer]

I got mine today. I dunno... I feel like I'm watching "The Aviator". Blue things keep jumping out at me. Bus seats, counter tops... If you say this is how it's supposed to look fine, I'll take your word for it, but it sure is distracting. I'll try to adjust, but it will be hard.

I've bought every release of this film since my teenage self blind-bought the VHS at Media Play all those years ago (knew nothing about it but it seems to be summoning me). It has been my favorite film ever since. I appreciate the improved clarity, and the fat mono mix, but the color... I might have to see a therapist to get over it.

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by Stationary Explorer

I got mine today. I dunno... I feel like I'm watching "The Aviator". Blue things keep jumping out at me. Bus seats, counter tops... If you say this is how it's supposed to look fine, I'll take your word for it, but it sure is distracting. I'll try to adjust, but it will be hard.

I've bought every release of this film since my teenage self blind-bought the VHS at Media Play all those years ago (knew nothing about it but it seems to be summoning me). It has been my favorite film ever since. I appreciate the improved clarity, and the fat mono mix, but the color... I might have to see a therapist to get over it.

I don't see anything wrong with the color with maybe the slight blue to the B&W footage.

[PowellPressburger]

Originally Posted by Dailyan

You do know how florescent lighting works right?

I get that, and yes this is a whole new transfer but why haven't they ever looked tinted before.

The florescent lighting should have been seen in previous transfers, or even a hint of it.

Maybe the MGM isn't perfect esp in detail to the Criterion but the Criterion isn't perfect.

the fact other scenes have tinting also makes me very cautious over believing it was supposed to look that way.

I will check out a few scenes this evening. Mine is out for delivery.

My calibration doesn't push as hard to teal so it might not look as drastic as I'm preparing myself for.

I still bought it so Criterion got my money but this teal push is way out of hand with many films.

[Indiana Jonezzz...]

Originally Posted by PowellPressburger

I get that, and yes this is a whole new transfer but why haven't they ever looked tinted before.

The florescent lighting should have been seen in previous transfers, or even a hint of it.

Maybe the MGM isn't perfect esp in detail to the Criterion but the Criterion isn't perfect.

the fact other scenes have tinting also makes me very cautious over believing it was supposed to look that way.

I will check out a few scenes this evening. Mine is out for delivery.

My calibration doesn't push as hard to teal so it might not look as drastic as I'm preparing myself for.

I still bought it so Criterion got my money but this teal push is way out of hand with many films.

I believe MGM generally used to master their catalogue films to look more balanced and “normal”, and very similar to each other, disregarding specifics such as director’s intent, and on set lighting like this example of fluorescent lighting, which affects the colour. That’s what I’ve read anyway, so this new Criterion, should ideally be far closer to how it originally was intended to look, but perhaps they’ve pushed the colour a little too far in places for some people.

[PowellPressburger]

Ok i put in my MGM disc watched the first few scenes esp that shot of The cook.

And also when Joe goes into the diner and in the back to talk to him.

Put in the Criterion and its sharper more defined / tighter

The ultimate is getting the original United Artists Transamerica opening logo

Ok ao the first insert of the cook is tinted not as drastic looking as I imagined it would ... when you do see him again when Joe goes to talk to him I did notice that NO above fluorescent lights were on at all! That scene didnt look as tinted and clearly shouldnt be.

Im sure once i watch it this weekend i will notice the NYC florescent lighting more so. But not buying it for the TX diner at all.

So i dont agree that the Criterion color correction is great, I dont buy it at all.

However the transfer itsslf looks great ... sometimes I wish I didnt care at all how movies should look haha

[ElliesDad]

Originally Posted by PowellPressburger

[Show spoiler]I get that, and yes this is a whole new transfer but why haven't they ever looked tinted before.

The florescent lighting should have been seen in previous transfers, or even a hint of it.

Maybe the MGM isn't perfect esp in detail to the Criterion but the Criterion isn't perfect.

the fact other scenes have tinting also makes me very cautious over believing it was supposed to look that way.

I will check out a few scenes this evening. Mine is out for delivery.

My calibration doesn't push as hard to teal so it might not look as drastic as I'm preparing myself for.

I still bought it so Criterion got my money but this teal push is way out of hand with many films.

Please do get back when you've had an opportunity to look at this. I've had my finger poised over the 'process order' button for days, still trying to make up my mind whether or not the tint issue is likely to interfere with, to the point of spoiling, the viewing experience.

At what point did purchasing a blu-ray disc become so complicated? The "Howard's End" debacle seems to be becoming more and more the norm...what's happening to the concept of quality-control.

[Show spoiler] No answer expected...just ranting...

Well, I got my answer while I was still typing! Thanks for that! And if the transfer in fact does look great obviously I'll pull the trigger on this, warts and all...