Alien: Covenant (2017)

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by pEgLeG

This discussion of unbelievable stupidity has actually been on my mind before this thread. I used to be annoyed by how stupid people in horror movies are, but as I've gotten more experience with people over the years, I find that most people are exactly that stupid and unaware. Now it no longer bothers me, mostly because it's an accurate representation of reality. I just didn't realize it, or didn't want to accept it. Now I just live vicariously through the killer to assuage some of the frustrations that build up from my real-world encounters with these cattle.

That's the thing for me, I love horror, and I'm accepting of a lot of cheesy 70's and 80's horror movies where people are conveniently stupid due to the writing and direction. Ridley Scott gave us better than that, though, with Alien -- but then he resorts to having stupid characters in Prometheus, half of which don't do much anyway other than fill a slot on the crew and becoming fodder. If Prometheus wasn't taking itself so seriously as a thought provoking science fiction film with existential-philosophical-theological themes, which actually makes it half interesting, I wouldn't be so hard on the scientists acting stupid. I want the horror elements, too, but not at the expense of intelligent characters. I think it can be done without dumbing down characters and resorting to cliches.

[pEgLeG]

I'm arguing that the characters aren't dumbed down. I'm arguing that the average Joe (no matter the field) is exactly that stupid.

[wonderer99]

The irony of people calling make believe characters dumb in a thread filled with folk criticizing a film they have not yet seen.

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by pEgLeG

I'm arguing that the characters aren't dumbed down. I'm arguing that the average Joe (no matter the field) is exactly that stupid.

They're not supposed to be average joes, though! They're scientists -- most likely the best of the best -- chosen to go light years away to study strange new worlds. If we have the intelligence enough to build ships to get us that far into space, we should have the intelligence enough to follow common sense and standard protocol. Heck, the cast of Galaxy Quest showed more intelligence, caution, and respect for alien life than the cast of Prometheus.

[wonderer99]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

They're not supposed to be average joes, though! They're scientists -- most likely the best of the best -- chosen to go light years away to study strange new worlds. If we have the intelligence enough to build ships to get us that far into space, we should have the intelligence enough to follow common sense and standard protocol. Heck, the cast of Galaxy Quest showed more intelligence, caution, and respect for alien life than the cast of Prometheus.

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by wonderer99

The irony of people calling make believe characters dumb in a thread filled with folk criticizing a film they have not yet seen.

That makes no sense. How is that ironic? By the way, I'm criticizing Prometheus, not Alien: Covenant. But I am concerned for how I will receive Alien: Covenant, which I really want to like.

Originally Posted by wonderer99

And that makes no sense either. I'm sure he studied those snakes before handling them. He was aware at least of their existence and showed more caution in his first meeting with them. Weak comparison.


Like I said earlier, I appreciate Prometheus quite a bit , but it is a flawed film. Obviously people want to love it, so they make apologies for or overlook the flaws.

[wonderer99]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

That makes no sense. How is that ironic? By the way, I'm criticizing Prometheus, not Alien: Covenant. But I am concerned for how I will receive Alien: Covenant, which I really want to like.




And that makes no sense either. I'm sure he studied those snakes before handling them. He was aware at least of their existence and showed more cation in his first meeting with them. Weak comparison.


Like I said earlier, I appreciate Prometheus quite a bit , but it is a flawed film. Obviously people want to love it, so they make apologies for or overlook the flaws.

Steve Irwin and the like deliberately interact with animals that they KNOW can kill them. Same goes for big cat handlers etc etc. Then there are the muppets that still put their heads in crocodiles mouths etc. The scientist in Prometheus did not KNOW the snake thingymajig was dangerous. This was the first encounter with an alien life form. For a biologist that would be pretty huge so him getting caught up in the moment never really seemed so far fetched to me.

[pEgLeG]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

They're not supposed to be average joes, though! They're scientists -- most likely the best of the best -- chosen to go light years away to study strange new worlds. If we have the intelligence enough to build ships to get us that far into space, we should have the intelligence enough to follow common sense and standard protocol. Heck, the cast of Galaxy Quest showed more intelligence, caution, and respect for alien life than the cast of Prometheus.

Originally Posted by pEgLeG

I'm arguing that the characters aren't dumbed down. I'm arguing that the average Joe (no matter the field) is exactly that stupid.

Following your reasoning: if we have the intelligence to build particle accelerators, then we shouldn't need tags on pillows warning us not to eat the stuffing. But we do have particle accelerators, and those tags, on more than just pillows.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by wonderer99

Steve Irwin and the like deliberately interact with animals that they KNOW can kill them. Same goes for big cat handlers etc etc. Then there are the muppets that still put their heads in crocodiles mouths etc. The scientist in Prometheus did not KNOW the snake thingymajig was dangerous. This was the first encounter with an alien life form. For a biologist that would be pretty huge so him getting caught up in the moment never really seemed so far fetched to me.

Having the scene of the far less advanced alien worm put back into the film would do wonders for explaining why Milburn does an Irwin with the later iteration of the creature, but for me it always comes back to Fifield: he's the geologist/mapper guy/whatever and he gets lost inside the ship EVEN THOUGH HE'S THE ONE DOING THE MAPPING. Just...ugh. If the point is that it's really his little 'dogs' that are doing the mapping then why take a well-paid "expert" at all (remember kids: he's not there to be your friend, he's there to make money!) when you can just hire some goon to chuck a couple of balls into the air? Just...ugh. Again.

I wonder if there's a fan cut of the film which deletes Fifield completely?

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by wonderer99

Steve Irwin and the like deliberately interact with animals that they KNOW can kill them. Same goes for big cat handlers etc etc. Then there are the muppets that still put their heads in crocodiles mouths etc. The scientist in Prometheus did not KNOW the snake thingymajig was dangerous. This was the first encounter with an alien life form. For a biologist that would be pretty huge so him getting caught up in the moment never really seemed so far fetched to me.

I get the need to have the scientist encounter and study this snake and getting caught up in the moment upon seeing it. I get the need to have the snake attack him and give us the horror necessary for the movie. I get all that. But it all comes down to execution. If he had stretched his arm out at a DISTANCE and either approached or backed up slowly, showing a little caution, as well as scientific curiosity, instead of acting like a kid with puppy, I would be able to accept it more. But the way it is, I only see it as poor writing/direction and accept it as comic relief in a movie that is obviously meant to be taken seriously.

And that's not the only scene involving stupid scientists in the movie, but again... we need to accept.

[Darkstream]

Originally Posted by pEgLeG

Following your reasoning: if we have the intelligence to build particle accelerators, then we shouldn't need tags on pillows warning us not to eat the stuffing. But we do have particle accelerators, and those tags, on more than just pillows.

Sorry, I must have missed this post earlier.

Anyway, you bring up a good point. I was in the military, so I can understand that there are definitely stupid people no matter the field, and I guess I really shouldn't be complaining about having characters, who are expected to be intelligent, act stupid or break protocol. You know there had to be procedural rules set, and if this was the Starship Enterprise, they probably would have been followed (what a crew!), but not only is there multiple instances where the scientists act stupidly in Prometheus, but I don't recall anyone addressing the fact that someone was breaking protocol. As I mentioned earlier, that's what makes the difference between Alien and Prometheus. Ripley addressed protocol and fought with others over breaking it. If only someone addressed it more often, if at all, in Prometheus, it would have at least shown that not everyone was an idiot.

[Himmel]

Originally Posted by mar3o

This thread is a calamity. Everyone has made their minds up without even seeing it. Amazing.

Lol i know.

[Zivouhr]

Can't wait to check out Alien Covenant. Surprised to see the critic reviews are generally positive.

Originally Posted by Darkstream

Okay, here's another one. Let's mess this dead alien being's head. We don't need to wear any breathing apparatus, or faceshields, or surgical masks -- I'm sure there won't be any airborne contaminants or possible deadly pathogens, because its physiology is not that different from ours, even though it is obviously alien. But don't worry, we'll have on our plastic gloves just as a minor precaution.

Ridley Scott may have been showing how careless people can be, even scientists. If everybody made the right decisions in movies, there would be no conflict since they would have never even flown to the Alien planet. That said, it is better when the Aliens outsmart the humans when the humans are smart.

[mwynn]

Originally Posted by mar3o

This thread is a calamity. Everyone has made their minds up without even seeing it. Amazing.

Multiple people have seen the movie.

[AKORIS]

nothing on this thread is going to make me even a fraction less excited about seeing this one of the big screen when it opens for us "regular" folks...

[spawningblue]

For what it's worth, I'm a member of one of the bigger horror forums on Facebook, and everyone that has saw it on there has seemed to love it. For horror films I always find horror fans opinions much more important than joe critic. I want to see it, but will probably have to wait until the Blu hits.

[Infernal King]

This thread is awesome. People are defending poorly-written characters on the basis of cynical misanthropy.

[Cremildo]

Originally Posted by Infernal King

This thread is awesome. People are defending poorly-written characters on the basis of cynical misanthropy.

Or perhaps they don't think they're "poorly written" at all.

The arrogance of haters is the most awesome thing of all.

Hey, it rhymed.

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by Cremildo

Or perhaps they don't think they're "poorly written" at all.

The arrogance is haters is the most awesome thing of all.

Hey, it rhymed.

You don't get to rhyme all with all and count it as an actual rhyme. That's not rhyming, it's just repetition.

[Himmel]

Originally Posted by Infernal King

This thread is awesome. People are defending poorly-written characters on the basis of cynical misanthropy.

The Cynical Misanthrope.

http://the-cynical-misanthrope.blogspot.com