Disney Classics Screenshot Comparisons

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I'm sympathetic to your arguments, but there may be a dimension to it that you're not considering...the original films were produced to be seen in a dark theater, not in brightly lit living rooms on a Sunday morning, not on a mobile device, not on a display in the back of an SUV, not on an iPad in an airport terminal...these are immense works of art, but they are also consumer products. Ultimately, Disney is trying to please the majority of their consumers, so this is where the contrast and color boosting comes from -- there is no nefarious or cynical skullduggery at foot. They're trying to make audiences happy all across the globe.

I don't know what compromise there could be...archival edition releases alongside "popular versions" doesn't seem to be economical. I hear your argument and understand it, but I hear and understand the other side as well. Ultimately there really isn't any compromise between those two parameters.

As for the horrid DNR on Sword in the Stone and Mickey's Christmas Carol, and the misframing of Fox and the Hound...that stuff is inexcusable. I can't even watch Sword in the Stone on Blu. Got 10 minutes into it and had to turn it off.

I understand, but I don't see any color change in other films! Those are consumer products too, aren't they?
I didn't see anything in E.T. eg. that made me wanna say "OMG, what did they do here?"

about Sword in the Stone.
The old itunes copy is superb!

@Iceflash
Disney is notorious for falsely advertising its films.
http://www.dvdizzy.com/thelionking2.html

and in that interview you linked, the only color they say they changed is the red in Gaston.
So, what about all the others? Did they change by themselves?
And how ironic that the article itself has this photo:

that has nothing to do with the "ruined" Bluray!

[The_Iceflash]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

I understand, but I don't see any color change in other films! Those are consumer products too, aren't they?
I didn't see anything in E.T. eg. that made me wanna say "OMG, what did they do here?"

about Sword in the Stone.
The old itunes copy is superb!

@Iceflash
Disney is notorious for falsely advertising its films.
http://www.dvdizzy.com/thelionking2.html

and in that interview you linked, the only color they say they changed is the red in Gaston.
So, what about all the others? Did they change by themselves?
And how ironic that the article itself has this photo:

that has nothing to do with the "ruined" Bluray!

Obviously you didn't read it right. He was clearly giving one example of a color they changed due to it turning out incorrect. He didn't say that was the "only" change. Nice try. We wasn't giving a list of everything they had to change.

[Ernest Rister]

I didn't see anything in E.T. eg. that made me wanna say "OMG, what did they do here?"

No, but there was a quite a fair bit of that over Spielberg's color timing of Raiders of the Lost Ark on Blu-Ray, and the color timing of the original trilogy Star Wars films. It used to be common practice for studios to boost contrast on home video titles because people were watching the movies in their living rooms with all the lights on, or during daylight hours with bright sunlight shining through the windows -- a famous example of this was Paramount's older treatment of The Godfather back in the 80's and 90's, with the contrast boosted up in direct conflict with Gordon Willis' famous dark cinematography, but it was felt the look of the film was too dark for home presentations.

[filmmusic]

Not exactly the same screenshots but you get the idea.
Lady and the Tramp
HDTV vs. BLuray.
(if only that HDTV was wider...)

[miniroll32]

Interesting comparisons for LatT. Again, it's as if the blu-ray version has a 'veil' over the entire frame for certain scenes, and it's made the colours darker or more prominent to orange. The HDTV broadcast looks a lot more natural because of the contrast, even if there are signs of it being faded. For example, the dogs eyes are bright white whereas they appear almost murky in the blu-ray version.

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by miniroll32

Interesting comparisons for LatT. Again, it's as if the blu-ray version has a 'veil' over the entire frame for certain scenes, and it's made the colours darker or more prominent to orange. The HDTV broadcast looks a lot more natural because of the contrast, even if there are signs of it being faded. For example, the dogs eyes are bright white whereas they appear almost murky in the blu-ray version.

I could live with the colors in the BLuray (they're not so radically changed as in other films), if the grain had been retained!

[The_Iceflash]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

I could live with the colors in the BLuray (they're not so radically changed as in other films), if the grain had been retained!

There's nothing wrong with LaTT's Blu-ray!! Stop making up problems that aren't there! You have a clear agenda supported by ignorance.

[Ernest Rister]

I think Lady and the Tramp looks absolutely sensational on Blu-Ray. But what do I know. I am just a simple unfrozen caveman. Your modern world frightens and confuses me.

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by The_Iceflash

There's nothing wrong with LaTT's Blu-ray!! Stop making up problems that aren't there! You have a clear agenda supported by ignorance.

I see no grain whatsoever and that is a problem in my agenda!
I don't understand why when live-action films have been DNRed to death everyone goes berserk (and rightfully so), but in animation films no-one cares!

[The_Iceflash]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

I see no grain whatsoever and that is a problem in my agenda!
I don't understand why when live-action films have been DNRed to death everyone goes berserk (and rightfully so), but in animation films no-one cares!

Get over your grain fetish.


Plus, if that was you several pages back who said a CAPS film was better with grain than you have no clue what grain and what a film should look like.

Saying the Dumbo DVD looks better than the Blu-ray is continuing to display ignorance. And no one was "set straight" about restorations. That was about Cinderella and Cinderella alone. Like was said in the other thread, the person who made that list of "Best Disney Movies on Home Video" is a moron with so many things wrong said in it that you take for gospel. You need to re-educate yourself before spewing any more incorrect garbage about the restorations and learn more about grain as people do care about it in animation but you appear to know very little and have misguided opinions about it. You do not take sources used into consideration. You have no clue about prints and how grain increases with each print generation and how from one release to another, better, lower, cleaner prints may be used and found. You just go, "less grain? NR!!!!! BAD1111" as if on autopilot with no clue at all.

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by The_Iceflash

Get over your grain fetish.


Plus, if that was you several pages back who said a CAPS film was better with grain than you have no clue what grain and what a film should look like.

Saying the Dumbo DVD looks better than the Blu-ray is continuing to display ignorance. And no one was "set straight" about restorations. That was about Cinderella and Cinderella alone. Like was said in the other thread, the person who made that list of "Best Disney Movies on Home Video" is a moron with so many things wrong said in it that you take for gospel. You need to re-educate yourself before spewing any more incorrect garbage about the restorations and learn more about grain as people do care about it in animation but you appear to know very little and have misguided opinions about it. You do not take sources used into consideration. You have no clue about prints and how grain increases with each print generation and how from one release to another, better, lower, cleaner prints may be used and found. You just go, "less grain? NR!!!!! BAD1111" as if on autopilot with no clue at all.

I'm sorry but the original negative has grain!!
Now, i understand that the grain increases with each print generation, and the DVDs may have come from a 3rd, 4th generation.
But there isn't any 35mm print in the world which has no grain whatsoever!
And instead of having a degrained Bluray which in NO WAY reflects the first original negative, and in no way produces the various brush strokes and small differences of color in frame by frame that give the film life (due to the repainting and "cleaning"), I prefer having more grain from a later generation print!

By the way, since you're... "knowledgable" and you obviously don't like grain, why don't you complain about the grain found in The Little Mermaid Bluray?
According to your views, this should be crystal clear!

[The_Iceflash]

The Little Mermaid only used CAPS in the ending rainbow sequence. The rest of the film used traditional painted cells. It was not a CAPS film.

One of the many things you're wrong about is the initial amount of grain that appears in the films. You say you understand that grain increases with each print generation, yet you don't understand how little grain there is in a low generation print. You think the appropriate amount of grain there should be is a lot. That's wrong. Also, you grossly exaggerate the effects of the degraining in many of the films. Are there some that overdid it (I.e Sword in the Stone)? Absolutely. Is it to the extent you claim it is across the canon? No, whether you like it or not. Don't even get me started on colors. Self-appointed "experts" around here seem to think they know more about what a film's colors should look like, even without the knowledge and resources the real experts have about the accuracy of them. The self-appointed experts here cite taped 80s TV airings, VHSs, laserdiscs, and nth generation prints they've seen over the DECADES state how they're so right that restoration colors are wrong. Plus being anti-restoration is just ignorance about the the whole process.

[filmmusic]

Another comparison for Lady and the Tramp:

HDTV vs BLuray
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/109823

[Freddy2]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

Another comparison for Lady and the Tramp:

HDTV vs BLuray

Thanks again for this comparison. The more (problematic) shots I see of Lady and the Tramp, the less excited I am about it. I mean, I still like the way most of the movie looks, I think it looks good, but not as good as I originally thought, let alone as perfect as some reviewers claimed it to be. It is clearly an example of the rotoscoping technique, showing quite a bit of problems.

Originally Posted by The_Iceflash

Don't even get me started on colors. Self-appointed "experts" around here seem to think they know more about what a film's colors should look like, even without the knowledge and resources the real experts have about the accuracy of them. The self-appointed experts here cite taped 80s TV airings, VHSs, laserdiscs, and nth generation prints they've seen over the DECADES state how they're so right that restoration colors are wrong.

First of all, I'm not sure who you had in mind when saying "Self-appointed "experts"". I don't think any of us around here are experts, except one or two who (used to) work in the business, but some know a bit about this stuff nonetheless.
I agree with you that things are not as terribly bad as some claim it to be. There are quite a few (very) good restorations. But, as you say for example about The Sword in the Stone, it isn't as perfect, the "Disney can do no wrong" kind, as many others are claiming. Many restorations have problems, some of which are small, while others are (quite) large.
Cinderella comes to mind when talking about the larger kind of problems. And I do agree that using VHS isn't an accurate representation of what it should look like, but in some cases it still can be used to show that there are serious problems with the latest restoration. For example when there are more details visible on the VHS than there are on the BD. And in case of the colors, when the BD shows colors that are completely unnatural, while the VHS shows natural colors, it is very likely that the VHS colors are closer to the source than the BD ones. Purple skies and pink horse tails come to mind... I think you can agree with that as well, don't you?...

[reanimator]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

I think Lady and the Tramp looks absolutely sensational on Blu-Ray. But what do I know. I am just a simple unfrozen caveman. Your modern world frightens and confuses me.

You didn't, by chance, happen to attend the University of Miami School of Law?

[Ernest Rister]

Originally Posted by reanimator

You didn't, by chance, happen to attend the University of Miami School of Law?

[formula72]

Looking back at Cinderella, I'm disgusted by what they have done to it. I'm truly thinking of selling of both my BD's ( BB steelbook and target exclusive ) and revert back to good old 1990's DVD.

If it wasn't for the side by side comparison, I would have never known.

Also, as for color timing, and remembering what you saw as a child. I can, for certain, remember many of the colors I saw as a child in Disney movies, thanks to coloring books. I loved to color, and had a boot load of of books....
Cinderella looks like crap....!!!

[UseY0ur1llusi0n]

Originally Posted by The_Iceflash

Get over your grain fetish.

Never!

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by formula72

Looking back at Cinderella, I'm disgusted by what they have done to it. I'm truly thinking of selling of both my BD's ( BB steelbook and target exclusive ) and revert back to good old 1990's DVD.

Unfortunately there isn't any pre-"restoration" 90s DVD.
Do you mean the VHS/Laserdisc?

[PonyoBellanote]

Hello, I'm here because I just wanted to say I checked out the new featurette in the Fox and the Hound 2011 BD, unlikely friends, and saw some HD shots of the movie OLIVER AND COMPANY, in 1:66:1, basically the same master used in the DVDs, but in HD, it's quite grainy but it looks good. People would love it rather than that hideous DNR monster they made.

Actually I think the reason why they DNR'd it is because, I guess the grain was very hard to remove either way, I believe, as I can see in the HD shots in the featurette, the grain seems to be present in the film as part of the original cels.

It's grainy but it's not the annoying grainy and I wish they'd have put it on Blu-ray instead because other than the grain it looks rather decent.

There were also other pieces of other movies before they got their new master for the Blu-ray release and they also looked mighty good. (The Lion King was here present in the 1:66 format the SPECIAL EDITION was) and etc. They all looked decent..