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Old 12-22-2014, 02:10 AM   #2181
IrishBuffyFan10 IrishBuffyFan10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Doctor Jack View Post
Joss Whedon is being ignorant about wanting to preserve his baby as it was originally intended? Wow. That's just crazy.
He's ignorant by not even previewing the widescreen version, perhaps he doesn't realise what it truly appears to be. That's all. I totally understand his vision of it in 4:3, particularly the body but like... Not exactly as if Beer bad was a directorial masterpiece that watching it in 4:3 will make everyones day better than 16:9.

What's funny out of all of this was that in the beginning he wanted Buffy to be like a cinematic experience, to be like a movie... Yet he chose to do it in 4:3....
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Old 12-22-2014, 02:46 AM   #2182
Drewbee87 Drewbee87 is offline
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Just curious, what would everyone's reaction be if Joss not only said "Buffy in widescreen is nonsense.", but added "Buffy in High Resolution is also nonsense"?

Last edited by Drewbee87; 12-22-2014 at 02:52 AM.
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Old 12-22-2014, 02:56 AM   #2183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbee87 View Post
To me, having mistakes in the OAR is worse than having them in the 16:9 versions. We know the reason the mistakes are in the 16:9 version, we don't know why they are in the OAR. And I'm talking about mistakes like the one above being in the 4:3 versions, not boom mics or lights on the edges of the screen. Those can be blamed on over-scan.
Dude, shit happens. This stuff was made without the digital safety net that everyone takes for granted these days, and on a tight TV schedule mistakes are bound to creep in. And stunt work has always come off worse on older TV shows because it's that much harder to hide the seams when you're on that tight a leash (like with the hilariously obvious stunt doubles used throughout the history of Star Trek).
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Old 12-22-2014, 03:04 AM   #2184
Drewbee87 Drewbee87 is offline
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I know all that, but shouldn't a DVD release be a second chance for them to fix those mistakes? Just like now, it was all about $$. Something that is unfortunately never going to change.
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Old 12-22-2014, 04:21 AM   #2185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbee87 View Post
To me, having mistakes in the OAR is worse than having them in the 16:9 versions. We know the reason the mistakes are in the 16:9 version, we don't know why they are in the OAR. And I'm talking about mistakes like the one above being in the 4:3 versions, not boom mics or lights on the edges of the screen. Those can be blamed on over-scan.
Oh, you mean the mistakes that the "purists" have conveniently swept under the rug?
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Old 12-22-2014, 04:34 AM   #2186
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Originally Posted by Panemlights View Post
Okay let's be real for a second here. All they did was not color correct the scene.
Also known as "finishing the episode."
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Old 12-22-2014, 04:35 AM   #2187
BillieCassin BillieCassin is offline
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OK, I apologize in advance for being "that guy" - but this thread just came to my attention, and I've scanned the last 40 pages, and gone to the webpage - and I'm still a bit confused as to what is going on. I really did try on my own before asking! I wouldn't be asking if this wasn't the most life-changey thing ever.

This is what I am gathering:

* Some TV network called Pivot (never heard of it, don't have it unfortunately, just checked - I have like six Disney channels, six Nick channels, etc but not this one, GRRRR face) is now showing Buffy in HD.

* They are showing it in 16x9, but severely cropped instead of reframed

* Some folks say they are just upconverting, others think these are coming off new film transfers

* The FX are sometimes being up-converted, some times being re-created

* No Blu-ray release has been announced, but folks are assuming because of the work going on for the syndicated versions that a release is likely


Can someone please help me untangle this? Have I gotten the gist? Who is doing the work? Some folks make it sound like Pivot is, and not the studio.

THANK YOU!
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Old 12-22-2014, 04:39 AM   #2188
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Originally Posted by slainery View Post
Oh, you mean the mistakes that the "purists" have conveniently swept under the rug?
The mistakes are part of the original version. Keep them in. Keep them in 4:3. I for one am not sweeping them under the rug. They are there. So what? Nothing needs to be altered period.
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Old 12-22-2014, 04:41 AM   #2189
Panemlights Panemlights is offline
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They're going through the film to make the new transfer. You've pretty much summed it up

No one knows the exact team that is remastering, but it is Fox's doing not Pivot's.
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Old 12-22-2014, 04:51 AM   #2190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Jack View Post
The mistakes are part of the original version. Keep them in. Keep them in 4:3. I for one am not sweeping them under the rug. They are there. So what? Nothing needs to be altered period.
Well, if people have never been that bothered by the mistakes in 4:3, why should they be asked to pay more attention to them in 16:9?
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Old 12-22-2014, 04:54 AM   #2191
Reddkryten Reddkryten is offline
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Originally Posted by al cos. View Post
Also known as "finishing the episode."

Out of curiosity, is there any precedent for this? Airing an unfinished episode on TV?

I know an episode of The X Files was having some issues with the black oil effects, so on one coast the episode aired with different effects (presumably finished but simplified effects). The next coast had the finished effects. This is the only time I can think of where an unfinished episode was allowed to air.

Occasionally goofs get fixed. But this isn't airing an unfinished episode, more an episode they thought was finished and missed a spot.
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Old 12-22-2014, 04:58 AM   #2192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panemlights View Post
They're going through the film to make the new transfer. You've pretty much summed it up

No one knows the exact team that is remastering, but it is Fox's doing not Pivot's.
Thank you!

I see (of course) that 16x9 vs. 4:3 is a hot topic - at risk of stepping into it - I have a feeling in the end when it does come to Blu (being Mr. Postive here that it's a when not an if), it will be treated like the DVD releases.

Of course the syndicated TV HD versions are in 16x9 - that's the reason that studios do these remasters. TV stations are starving for 16x9 content. Joss/Mutant Enemy have no say in that (obviously, as the reaction I saw from Joss during my little investigation here, he didn't even know it was going on).

However, Joss/Mutant Enemy does have contractual input on domestic ancillary releases (i.e. DVD/Blu-ray) but not International (which is the whole reason that the International DVDs were in 16x9 to begin with for the later seasons, against his wishes).

So I would assume that the US versions would remain in 4:3 since that's within Joss' control, but that the International versions would be in 16:9, and since it presumably would be FOX releasing them, they would be region-free, so at least folks will have a choice in the matter.

It would be nice to have both versions in one package so everyone is pleased, but I'm doubtful that would happen.

In any case, I'm just over the moon that this is even a possible thing...truly, if this were the last Blu-ray set I ever got, I'd be happier than Anya in the dimension with no bunnies, LOL.
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Old 12-22-2014, 05:08 AM   #2193
Drewbee87 Drewbee87 is offline
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So now mistakes that are just as big as the ones in 16:9 that are in the OAR are A-OK?

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Old 12-22-2014, 05:10 AM   #2194
Nico Darko Nico Darko is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillieCassin View Post
However, Joss/Mutant Enemy does have contractual input on domestic ancillary releases (i.e. DVD/Blu-ray) but not International (which is the whole reason that the International DVDs were in 16x9 to begin with for the later seasons, against his wishes).
Do they? My understanding was that Joss Whedon had technically no power in this. FOX owns "Buffy" and therefore can do whatever they want with it.

The fact that they listened to Whedon when he said the dvds should be 4:3 (at least in region 1) makes me hopeful about the Blu-Ray. But season 4 was released in 2003, widescreen wasn't as popular as it is today, they might go against Whedon's wishes in 2015.

Although Whedon has a lot more power and influence now than he had ten years ago, so who knows?
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Old 12-22-2014, 05:15 AM   #2195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbee87 View Post
So now mistakes that are just as big as the ones in 16:9 that are in the OAR are A-OK?

Yep. It's art.

EVERYTHING IS ART (as long as it's in 4:3)
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Old 12-22-2014, 05:20 AM   #2196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbee87 View Post
So now mistakes that are just as big as the ones in 16:9 that are in the OAR are A-OK?

The mistakes are there. Have been since it aired. No alterations should take place. There are goofs. Every tv show and movie has them. Accept them. I am okay with them because they have always been there. Nothing should be altered without full consent and input from Whedon and the rest of the makers of the show. We know where they stand.
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Old 12-22-2014, 05:24 AM   #2197
Drewbee87 Drewbee87 is offline
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Well, that's just your opinion! But don't make it out like everyone should also be OK with them. I'm not going to just blindly accept a crap job, in either ratio.
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Old 12-22-2014, 06:04 AM   #2198
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People ask how much pull Joss Whedon has... technically he may have none... but consider...

FOX cancelled Firefly, but fans so wanted more that Joss was able to find funding and make a theatrical movie.

Buffy has a lot of fans. IF Joss takes the public stand that Buffy is butchered by not being 4:3 on Blu-ray... you can bet his word carries weight with his fans... and those fans would not buy the Blu-rays... and THAT is something FOX would definitely take under careful consideration.

I would guess, as someone else noted, that a US release would be 4:3 as the DVDs were... but International releases could well be in 16:9. That wouldn't be a surprise as they did it before. It might even be smart, since those markets could get what they think is the definitive version and people in the US can get the original aspect ratio.

I would be fine with both... if they made a release that contained both... but I suspect it will be either/or. The only episode I want in 16:9 is the one intended to be that way, "Once More with Feeling."

Keep in mind... people debated and complained about Star Trek and again about Star Trek TNG... and sure enough we got 4:3 original aspect ratio on Blu-ray. The episodes sold in the US syndication have also been 4:3... so I don't think FOX would screw around with the trend that has been set by previous networks who have released other older TV shows.
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Old 12-22-2014, 06:06 AM   #2199
BillieCassin BillieCassin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico Darko View Post
Do they? My understanding was that Joss Whedon had technically no power in this. FOX owns "Buffy" and therefore can do whatever they want with it.

The fact that they listened to Whedon when he said the dvds should be 4:3 (at least in region 1) makes me hopeful about the Blu-Ray. But season 4 was released in 2003, widescreen wasn't as popular as it is today, they might go against Whedon's wishes in 2015.

Although Whedon has a lot more power and influence now than he had ten years ago, so who knows?
I'll have to dig up the source, but for a very long time I followed this topic (not this thread, LOL, but the overall "Buffy" releases on DVD and after) and I am 95% sure I read an interview where Joss explained it in more detail than he did in the letter with the Season 4 box set. I most likely found it via whedon.info which I used to read religiously.

The Wikipedia article about Buffy DVD releases says that it was because of "other regions coming out on DVD first and Mutant Enemy had less involvement" - completely unsourced, of course - and that just makes no sense because the releases were well under way in all countries by the time Widescreen became an issue with Season 4.

The more I think about it, the more I know I read about the contractual issue being domestic vs. international. That's not uncommon, at all - while we like to think of "FOX" as "FOX" - most studios/distributors with international off-shots are run rather independently, more like sisters than parent/child and often have totally different contracts for things, particularly ancillary rights.

Now this my mind is foggy on - it's been years since I thought about all this, but the Kuzuis own "Buffy" the concept - outright. They can go and make a new Buffy movie without Joss' or Fox's consent or anything else. But the show is a bit murkier, Fox owns it, controls it, but Mutant Enemy retained some approval rights, at least domestically.

Now you have me on a mission to go find the source...I know I read it, because that was when I gave up and imported the DVDs from R2 and hacked my player to play them, LOL.
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Old 12-22-2014, 06:15 AM   #2200
Drewbee87 Drewbee87 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Jack View Post
The mistakes are there. Have been since it aired. No alterations should take place. There are goofs. Every tv show and movie has them. Accept them. I am okay with them because they have always been there. Nothing should be altered without full consent and input from Whedon and the rest of the makers of the show. We know where they stand.
I have to ask, which one is it? I'm sure I already know, but just to be REALLY sure....
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