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Old 09-13-2020, 03:33 AM   #6061
Waboman Waboman is offline
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Great post, GD. I've already tipped my hat to you. This time I'm raising a pint. Cheers.
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Old 09-13-2020, 03:36 AM   #6062
Waboman Waboman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Nada View Post
Well I just tried Knives Out on 1.66C. It still stutters, so the issue isn't fixed yet...
Lol. Really? So what did 1.66 even address/fix?
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Old 09-13-2020, 04:21 PM   #6063
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the 820 is $399. Real remotes for it are $20 or less on E-Bay.
Think I'm going for it.
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Old 09-14-2020, 07:42 AM   #6064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cortiz View Post
IMO DV is overrated. There is no current TV on the market that can take full advantage of it anyways. For those having issues with some DV discs, i would say just turn it off, engage the optiimizer if you have a Panny and forget about DV. The differences are so subtle that is not worth the headache.
LG C9 and CX take full advantage of them so itís not overrated.
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Old 09-14-2020, 12:22 PM   #6065
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post
Lol. Really? So what did 1.66 even address/fix?
Good question! Honestly, no idea.

It's about time they sorted a fix for this issue.
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Old 09-14-2020, 09:04 PM   #6066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Edge View Post
LG C9 and CX take full advantage of them so itís not overrated.
Oddly enough on my old B6 the difference between HDR10 and DV was pretty massive, to the point that I was forcing my Oppo to play everything in DV. But on my 2018 and 2019 OLED models the difference is far less noticeable. So for me DV was definitely not overrated on my older TV because it had some significant tone-mapping issues that DV was practically needed to correct, but the newer models handle HDR10 so well that it doesn't matter much to me anymore. I still prefer that a disc have DV than not--especially if it's an older catalog title--but to me it's really not that important anymore.
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Old 09-14-2020, 09:44 PM   #6067
tama tama is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradnoyes View Post
Oddly enough on my old B6 the difference between HDR10 and DV was pretty massive, to the point that I was forcing my Oppo to play everything in DV. But on my 2018 and 2019 OLED models the difference is far less noticeable. So for me DV was definitely not overrated on my older TV because it had some significant tone-mapping issues that DV was practically needed to correct, but the newer models handle HDR10 so well that it doesn't matter much to me anymore. I still prefer that a disc have DV than not--especially if it's an older catalog title--but to me it's really not that important anymore.
I've recently come to the conclusion that LG OLEDS cannot map properly without the Dynamic Tone Mapping function.
This comes after several comparisons with Disney+ DV titles, a few DV digitals that I purchased, and even comparing my own disc with DV by shutting the DV option off on this player to make comparisons.

Last edited by tama; 09-14-2020 at 09:53 PM.
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Old 09-15-2020, 12:40 AM   #6068
wxman2003 wxman2003 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tama View Post
I've recently come to the conclusion that LG OLEDS cannot map properly without the Dynamic Tone Mapping function.
This comes after several comparisons with Disney+ DV titles, a few DV digitals that I purchased, and even comparing my own disc with DV by shutting the DV option off on this player to make comparisons.
I guess everyone has a different approach with DV. On my E6, I still prefer DV discs to be displayed as DV, vs having the 9000 tone map as HDR10. Using Warm 2 setting, DV has more punch when it comes to color. Of course, I hear conflicting stories as to what color gamut one should use with HDR10. With DV picture mode, it is set to WCG and greyed out. With HDR10 I can select either normal or WCG. With HDR10 picture mode color gamut set to normal, colors look flatter compared to DV. Set to wide it looks closer but perhaps too saturated. So why does DV use WCG and HDR10 use normal color gamut on my E6? When the tv first came out, everyone said to use WCG for HDR10, and later the opinion was to use Normal.
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Old 09-15-2020, 12:43 AM   #6069
Geoff D Geoff D is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradnoyes View Post
Oddly enough on my old B6 the difference between HDR10 and DV was pretty massive, to the point that I was forcing my Oppo to play everything in DV. But on my 2018 and 2019 OLED models the difference is far less noticeable. So for me DV was definitely not overrated on my older TV because it had some significant tone-mapping issues that DV was practically needed to correct, but the newer models handle HDR10 so well that it doesn't matter much to me anymore. I still prefer that a disc have DV than not--especially if it's an older catalog title--but to me it's really not that important anymore.
Pretty much this. The better a display tone maps HDR10 then the closer and closer it gets to DV, because the fundamental truth is that you're not dealing with two different grades 99.9% of the time when they're encoded on the same disc, as the HDR10 layer is literally derived FROM the DV source master. (Though with discs from different territories or streaming DV masters vs HDR10 disc there's always the possibility that they are different grades, like with the OG Ghost in the Shell anime.)

The provision is there for FEL encodes to include additional picture information over and above the 12-bit gradation, like if it's been graded to 4000 nits then the HDR10 layer can be capped at 1000 nits with the remainder contained in the FEL (which I think is a rather good idea) but it doesn't seem to have been used in practice. Universal and Paramount still seem to stick religiously to 1000-nit grades anyway, even though they're always using FEL, and as Sony and Warners grade their base layers to 4000 nits then that aspect of the FEL layer is useless, hence them always using MEL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post
Great post, GD. I've already tipped my hat to you. This time I'm raising a pint. Cheers.
I'm supping a Guinness at this very moment.
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Old 09-15-2020, 01:04 AM   #6070
tama tama is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman2003 View Post
I guess everyone has a different approach with DV. On my E6, I still prefer DV discs to be displayed as DV, vs having the 9000 tone map as HDR10. Using Warm 2 setting, DV has more punch when it comes to color. Of course, I hear conflicting stories as to what color gamut one should use with HDR10. With DV picture mode, it is set to WCG and greyed out. With HDR10 I can select either normal or WCG. With HDR10 picture mode color gamut set to normal, colors look flatter compared to DV. Set to wide it looks closer but perhaps too saturated. So why does DV use WCG and HDR10 use normal color gamut on my E6? When the tv first came out, everyone said to use WCG for HDR10, and later the opinion was to use Normal.
I prefer DV when available. just noticing that in HDR10 mode when DTM is enable it'll match more often in both color and brightness then oppose to it off.

can't comment on the E6. but for the 7 series it was supposed to be set to Auto (replaced normal).

Last edited by tama; 09-15-2020 at 01:26 AM.
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Old 09-16-2020, 03:41 AM   #6071
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Debating whether to pick up the 420 for $200 or the 820 for $400. I'm really only buying this for the HDR optimizer so it seems maybe the 420 is the way to go? I also like the smaller footprint of the unit.

One thing I wasn't able to find, does the 820 have additional playback information available during presentation? Technical details?

Hope it's ok to ask about the little runt of the family in this thread
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Old 09-16-2020, 06:30 AM   #6072
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Best Buy had a bunch of open box DP-UB9000 models, at least 8 of them, for sale earlier today for $649. All sold out now. They went quick.
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Old 09-16-2020, 10:57 AM   #6073
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teddyballgame View Post
One thing I wasn't able to find, does the 820 have additional playback information available during presentation? Technical details?
If you hold down one of the status buttons you get the metadata from the disc.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:51 PM   #6074
NewAgeYankee NewAgeYankee is offline
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I am thinking of buying a UB9000 to pair with my Denon 2700h and my Sony Z8H. Can anyone confirm that this player can run Dolbyvision through a Sony set I have heard since Sony uses a specific version of DV that not all players can run DV on a Sony tv.
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Old 09-16-2020, 03:49 PM   #6075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewAgeYankee View Post
I am thinking of buying a UB9000 to pair with my Denon 2700h and my Sony Z8H. Can anyone confirm that this player can run Dolbyvision through a Sony set I have heard since Sony uses a specific version of DV that not all players can run DV on a Sony tv.
Yes it can. I have the 9000 paired with an A9G.
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Old 09-16-2020, 05:30 PM   #6076
NewAgeYankee NewAgeYankee is offline
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Originally Posted by pbz06 View Post
Yes it can. I have the 9000 paired with an A9G.
Thanks I ordered one from Vision Electronics. Should be here in a 10 days.
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Old 09-16-2020, 10:17 PM   #6077
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I'm considering getting this player, but am wrestling with whether I want to get it region free from 220 Electronics. I have a relatively new Sony x900h TV and a LG bd player from 2013. Obviously the UHD player doesn't need to be region free for the UHD discs, but what I'm wondering is this -- how much different or better would the bd (and dvd) upscaling be using the Panasonic player VS my older LG bd player? If it doesn't really matter and the TV does all the upscaling anyways, then I guess I wouldn't need to get the 820 region free. Guidance would be appreciated.

*I'm also considering the Sony 800m2 player.
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Old 09-16-2020, 10:47 PM   #6078
RoxanneTheThiccWolf RoxanneTheThiccWolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tama View Post
With Dynamic metadata I don't believe tone mapping comes into play here. I'm actually thinking something else. Dolby labs may have made a change. My LG player has gone through 3 firmware updates. The original was to add DV playback. Last firmware I believe was over a year ago. And my understanding is when Oppo threw in the towel they were also no longer issuing firmware updates for their devices. Correct me if I'm wrong.

When Vincent T. First brought up this issue for his viewers he was comparing two OLED sets. The one connected to the Oppo wasn't clipping like the Panasonic so we can at least see it's not entirely an OLED issue either.

Knowing OLEDS limitations is it possible the ceiling has been raised for DV and OLEDS can no longer handle it's specular highlights unlike the much higher nit capable LCDs?

Just my theory for the time being.
And what makes you think Dolby made a change for their HDR standard that makes OLEDs have no longer handle highlights of Dolby Vision's dynamic metadata? User trekky76 have said they have not seen any clipping on Dolby Vision 4K Blu-rays discs on their Panasonic UB820 layer, and the TV they own is an LG C9, a 2019 OLED. So far those who have found evidence Panasonic's 4K Blu-rays clip highlights on Dolby Vision content are owners of LG OLEDs from 2016-2018, that being user wxman2003, who owns an LG E6, user Mierzwiak who owns an LG B8, you who owns an LG B7, and Vincent Teoh who appeared to test the Dolby Vision output of the Panasonic UB9000 on a 2018 LG OLED as he made his review of the player before he reviewed the LG C9. So again, maybe it has to due with the tone mapping of early LG OLEDs that causes clipping on the Dolby Vision output of the UB820/UB9000.

Last edited by RoxanneTheThiccWolf; 09-16-2020 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 09-16-2020, 11:18 PM   #6079
tama tama is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoxanneTheThiccWolf View Post
And what makes you think Dolby made a change for their HDR standard that makes OLEDs have no longer handle highlights of Dolby Vision's dynamic metadata? User trekky76 have said they have not seen any clipping on Dolby Vision 4K Blu-rays discs on their Panasonic UB820 layer, and the TV they own is an LG C9, a 2019 OLED. So far those who have found evidence Panasonic's 4K Blu-rays clip highlights on Dolby Vision content are owners of LG OLEDs from 2016-2018, that being user wxman2003, who owns an LG E6, user Mierzwiak who owns an LG B8, you who owns an LG B7, and Vincent Teoh who appeared to test the Dolby Vision output of the Panasonic UB9000 ona 2018 LG OLED as he made his review of the player before he reviewed the LG C9. So again, maybe it has to due with the tone mapping of early LG OLEDs that causes clipping on the Dolby Vision output of the UB820/UB9000.
That may well be. Keep in mind Vincent also was using an Oppo during his demonstration with 2 OLEDS against the Panny for comparisons which wasn't clipping or producing added brightness which is why he guessed it was a player specific issue. Again this is just theory seeing how the brightness issue isn't just a Panny player specific issue.

Last edited by tama; 09-17-2020 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 09-17-2020, 12:40 AM   #6080
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Maybe Robert has some insight as to why Panasonic hasn't updated their firmware since last summer? I'm still stuck on 1.60. If not, perhaps he could put a bug in their ear.
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