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Old 09-13-2020, 02:11 AM   #341
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Yeah I agree that Yamaha won't win any beauty contests but that's down my pecking order tbh.

The RX-A680 seems a decent piece of kit.I've never had a Yamaha but that was my first choice for my new receiver,Aventage has good reviews but so did my Denon.

Part of me is saying,I can't be bothered anymore and the other half is saying....think of the great movie nights I'd be missing.
The thing too where appearance is concerned, this isn't the first time they had a small display. This is a pic of the DSP-A2070 flagship from the early/mid 90s. Knobs were still on the side. Still a clean design. It was my first Yamaha.

[Show spoiler]


Yeah I hear ya, I tend to side with the "think of the great movie nights I'd be missing". Hate being without my HT. But I know where my money would go. I used to dislike Yamaha for music, but ever since the Aventage line released I haven't looked back.
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Old 09-13-2020, 11:01 AM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red_5ive View Post
The thing too where appearance is concerned, this isn't the first time they had a small display. This is a pic of the DSP-A2070 flagship from the early/mid 90s. Knobs were still on the side. Still a clean design. It was my first Yamaha.

[Show spoiler]


Yeah I hear ya, I tend to side with the "think of the great movie nights I'd be missing". Hate being without my HT. But I know where my money would go. I used to dislike Yamaha for music, but ever since the Aventage line released I haven't looked back.
The RXA1080 looks good but again,its too deep to fit where it has to go.
I use my receiver a lot for music via Spotify so that side of it is important to me too.
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Old 09-13-2020, 06:42 PM   #343
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The RXA1080 looks good but again,its too deep to fit where it has to go.
I use my receiver a lot for music via Spotify so that side of it is important to me too.
At the risk of sounding like a Yamaha fanboy
[Show spoiler] which I won't deny
, I have no idea what the Aventage series does with low bitrate music streaming services, but I can actually listen to free Pandora, which I don't believe is more than 128k. I don't turn on the Enhancer, either, which IMO actually makes things worse. Granted I don't do any critical Pandora listening, but it's more than good enough to help get me through the work day. I've been telecommuting for 14 years now, and ever since I went Aventage I've been able to listen to streaming services whereas before with my Marantz AV7005 and Onkyo pre-pros I avoided music streaming like a plague.

Edit: I should note that I mainly listen to Pandora in my home office when I work, where over the years I've had a Marantz SR6005, Yamaha RX-A1030, and now a non Aventage RX-V2085 which is basically an RX-A2080 but without that "5th foot". All were used with external amplification. With the 6005, I only listened to CDs and flac and couldn't tolerate streaming.

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you to get one as I realize your space limitation. I'm just simply impressed with the Aventage line.

Last edited by red_5ive; 09-13-2020 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 09-13-2020, 08:46 PM   #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red_5ive View Post
At the risk of sounding like a Yamaha fanboy
[Show spoiler] which I won't deny
, I have no idea what the Aventage series does with low bitrate music streaming services, but I can actually listen to free Pandora, which I don't believe is more than 128k. I don't turn on the Enhancer, either, which IMO actually makes things worse. Granted I don't do any critical Pandora listening, but it's more than good enough to help get me through the work day. I've been telecommuting for 14 years now, and ever since I went Aventage I've been able to listen to streaming services whereas before with my Marantz AV7005 and Onkyo pre-pros I avoided music streaming like a plague.

Edit: I should note that I mainly listen to Pandora in my home office when I work, where over the years I've had a Marantz SR6005, Yamaha RX-A1030, and now a non Aventage RX-V2085 which is basically an RX-A2080 but without that "5th foot". All were used with external amplification. With the 6005, I only listened to CDs and flac and couldn't tolerate streaming.

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you to get one as I realize your space limitation. I'm just simply impressed with the Aventage line.
Thanks for all your input and help.I really do appreciate it.
I had my mind set on Yamaha although I have always fancied a Marantz.

I've had a few drams and got impatient,I just bought a 2nd hand SR7010 off the bay.

We'll see how it goes but will definitely keep all you said in my mind for the next time as Yamaha and Aventage does sound great.....pardon the pun.

Thanks again.
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Old 09-13-2020, 10:36 PM   #345
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Thanks for all your input and help.I really do appreciate it.
I had my mind set on Yamaha although I have always fancied a Marantz.

I've had a few drams and got impatient,I just bought a 2nd hand SR7010 off the bay.

We'll see how it goes but will definitely keep all you said in my mind for the next time as Yamaha and Aventage does sound great.....pardon the pun.

Thanks again.
Congrats! I'm sure you'll enjoy it! And you won't have a gigantic knob staring you in the face.
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Old 09-15-2020, 02:53 AM   #346
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I’m considering the A780. It has 7.2 with an additional two presence speaker jacks. Does anyone know if these two presence channels can be reassigned as front Atmos channels?
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Old 09-15-2020, 03:26 AM   #347
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I’m considering the A780. It has 7.2 with an additional two presence speaker jacks. Does anyone know if these two presence channels can be reassigned as front Atmos channels?
Yes. You will be able to select the layout in the setup menu to one of the following:

Dolby Enabled Speaker
Overhead
Front Height

Just be sure to select the layout before running the auto-calibration.

Also, just to confirm, I thought that the 780 either did rear surround OR front presence only, but I confirmed in the manual it can do both. Here's an excerpt from page 18 of the RX-A780 Manual:

Quote:
If you have nine speakers, you can use the both surround back speakers and presence speakers. In this case, the unit automatically changes the speakers to be used, depending on the input signal and CINEMA DSP.
On that last bit about the DSP, that only applies to whether or not the selected DSP will use all the channels (music DSPs and/or if you have it setup for Front Presence, for example). Most of the movie DSPs or source direct will properly use the channels for Atmos & DTS:X. Personally I keep it on Surround:AI for Atmos & DTS:X. It really brings everything to life, especially since I never watch at reference levels, which is too loud for me.

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Old 09-15-2020, 03:45 AM   #348
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Thank you, red_5ive! I tweeted and emailed Yamaha and no response. This is a big help—that’s been an important factor for me.

My decision to make is to buy a new A780 for $1017 CND (that’s with tax) or a used A770 off a guy on Kijiji for $700 CND. Is there much difference between them? They’re one generation apart, I think.
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Old 09-15-2020, 04:10 AM   #349
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Thank you, red_5ive! I tweeted and emailed Yamaha and no response. This is a big help—that’s been an important factor for me.

My decision to make is to buy a new A780 for $1017 CND (that’s with tax) or a used A770 off a guy on Kijiji for $700 CND. Is there much difference between them? They’re one generation apart, I think.
They did release wireless speaker capability with music cast on the xx80 series units if that interests you, but I think it requires music cast wireless speakers which is extra.

I also found this chart:
https://www.zkelectronics.com/compar...sa-and-canada/

The highlights to me that the 780 has but apparently are not on the 770 are:

- Newer bluetooth vesion 4.2
- 5 GHz wifi support
- Higher DSD sampling rate
- 8 Scenes vs 4 Scenes
- Airplay 2 support


The DSD thing is weird, why it would gain that for DSD but was not on there before? Really only matters though if you listen to SACD and want the AVR to do the processing. I do listen to SACDs still, but I'm no expert on the subject so maybe someone else who knows more can explain why a higher sampling rate was added to the 780.

The 8 scenes vs 4 is nice. These are basically memory banks that store source, PEQ, speaker settings, etc., that are recalled at the touch of a button. Very useful if you listening to say stereo full range and no sub(s) for music, and then want to switch to your full complement of speakers/sub(s) for HT. I use all 8.

Last edited by red_5ive; 09-15-2020 at 04:32 AM.
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Old 09-15-2020, 03:07 PM   #350
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red_5ive, thanks again for your help! Breaking down the main differences is really helpful, and the link to zkelectronics is great too.

The newer Bluetooth and faster wifi are super nice but I can’t imagine it would be necessary for me. The higher sampling rate for DSD is interesting...I do listen to SACDs but I don’t know enough about the tech to know if that higher sampling rate would make any real-world difference. The four additional scenes are nice, though I’ve never used them; I don’t think my present receiver has them at all. My TV has AirPlay—not sure if it’s 1 or 2.

The extra HDMI port up at the front of the A770 makes it tempting. Guess I now need to figure if the difference between the two receivers is worth the extra $300 CND.

I’m running a 6.1 right now, and hopefully someday I’ll nab some upfirers or mount a couple speakers in the wall above my fronts and have a 6.1.2 Thanks again!
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Old 09-15-2020, 03:55 PM   #351
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red_5ive, thanks again for your help! Breaking down the main differences is really helpful, and the link to zkelectronics is great too.

The newer Bluetooth and faster wifi are super nice but I can’t imagine it would be necessary for me. The higher sampling rate for DSD is interesting...I do listen to SACDs but I don’t know enough about the tech to know if that higher sampling rate would make any real-world difference. The four additional scenes are nice, though I’ve never used them; I don’t think my present receiver has them at all. My TV has AirPlay—not sure if it’s 1 or 2.

The extra HDMI port up at the front of the A770 makes it tempting. Guess I now need to figure if the difference between the two receivers is worth the extra $300 CND.

I’m running a 6.1 right now, and hopefully someday I’ll nab some upfirers or mount a couple speakers in the wall above my fronts and have a 6.1.2 Thanks again!
If you have the option to listen to both units in direct mode with the same speakers, I would give that a go. I wouldn't expect there'd be a big difference if any at all, but I always prefer to do that if the option is available. For me it'd be more for peace of mind.

That said, I don't see enough of a difference to justify the 780 if you can get the 770 at a discount. Personally, I have absolutely no problem getting a prior model at a discount, which I have done more than once before. Also, I am using my A5200 in 2.4 GHz mode (the 5200 is technically in-line with the xx80 series), and I have no issues with it considering my router is way upstairs in a closet (e.g., I'm more than likely getting degraded throughput). Lastly, although the xx80 series is nearing the end of it's run, I still don't think there's enough of a difference between the 780 and 770 spec-wise to justify getting the current model since you can get a discount on the 770.

Just my 2 pennies.

Last edited by red_5ive; 09-15-2020 at 05:50 PM.
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:02 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by red_5ive View Post
If you have the option to listen to both units in direct mode with the same speakers, I would give that a go. I wouldn't expect there'd be a big difference if any at all, but I always prefer to do that if the option is available. For me it'd be more for peace of mind.

That said, I don't see enough of a difference to justify the 780 if you can get the 770 at a discount. Personally, I have absolutely no problem getting a prior model at a discount, which I have done more than once before. Also, I am using my A5200 in 2.4 GHz mode (the 5200 is technically in-line with the xx80 series), and I have no issues with it considering my router is way upstairs in a closet (e.g., I'm more than likely getting degraded throughput). Lastly, although the xx80 series is nearing the end of it's run, I still don't think there's enough of a difference between the 780 and 770 spec-wise to justify getting the current model since you can get a discount on the 770.

Just my 2 pennies.
Thanks for your input, red_5ive; I hugely appreciate it. I happen to concur. Iíll rarely need the receiver for fast internet or even to stream something from my phone, as the TV itself can do that. The increased sample rate of DSD might be noticed by me, but probably not.

It also seems appropriate, since I bought my current TV open box and my player as refurbished, that the receiver should be used. Sometimes itís good to save a buck.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:24 AM   #353
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Thanks for your input, red_5ive; I hugely appreciate it. I happen to concur. I’ll rarely need the receiver for fast internet or even to stream something from my phone, as the TV itself can do that. The increased sample rate of DSD might be noticed by me, but probably not.

It also seems appropriate, since I bought my current TV open box and my player as refurbished, that the receiver should be used. Sometimes it’s good to save a buck.
I agree, the sampling rate is 4 times higher than standard SACD and should be noticeable providing that the source is recorded at the higher rate, but for me I was just always happy to be able to listen DSD recordings in general. I'm sure some SACD guru/purist would whip me for saying that lol.

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Old 09-16-2020, 01:12 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by red_5ive View Post
Yes. You will be able to select the layout in the setup menu to one of the following:

Dolby Enabled Speaker
Overhead
Front Height

Just be sure to select the layout before running the auto-calibration.

Also, just to confirm, I thought that the 780 either did rear surround OR front presence only, but I confirmed in the manual it can do both. Here's an excerpt from page 18 of the RX-A780 Manual:



On that last bit about the DSP, that only applies to whether or not the selected DSP will use all the channels (music DSPs and/or if you have it setup for Front Presence, for example). Most of the movie DSPs or source direct will properly use the channels for Atmos & DTS:X. Personally I keep it on Surround:AI for Atmos & DTS:X. It really brings everything to life, especially since I never watch at reference levels, which is too loud for me.
Hi again, red_5ive! I’m just about to meet the Kijiji guy for the used A770 and it occurred to me...is the A770 similar in that I can use the presence speakers as Atmos fronts? I can’t find the manual online but I’ll look again.

EDIT: just found it at https://usa.yamaha.com/files/downloa...CRAF_En_A0.pdf and yes, I believe it can do the same.

I’m experiencing the slightest bit of buyer’s remorse, as I keep thinking about that sampling rate for SACDs. But then I remember that I’m saving $300, there are always things I’ll miss out on without the latest and greatest, and I have only a couple dozen SACDs anyway. No big.

Last edited by supervij; 09-16-2020 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 09-16-2020, 06:08 PM   #355
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Hi again, red_5ive! I’m just about to meet the Kijiji guy for the used A770 and it occurred to me...is the A770 similar in that I can use the presence speakers as Atmos fronts? I can’t find the manual online but I’ll look again.

EDIT: just found it at https://usa.yamaha.com/files/downloa...CRAF_En_A0.pdf and yes, I believe it can do the same.

I’m experiencing the slightest bit of buyer’s remorse, as I keep thinking about that sampling rate for SACDs. But then I remember that I’m saving $300, there are always things I’ll miss out on without the latest and greatest, and I have only a couple dozen SACDs anyway. No big.
Cool. Yeah, that's how my 2nd setup is, I have front/rear presence speakers and not overheads. Honestly, I tried overheads and I couldn't tell the difference so I kept the presence speakers since they're more aesthetic in the room they're in. But I think that has to do with them being in a small room. In my larger room, things sound way different with overheads.

As for the SACD thing, it would only matter anyway if you have DSD256 recordings. I personally don't have any myself as I haven't bought anything in DSD format in years, and they were all before DSD256/11.2 MHz spec released.
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Old 09-16-2020, 10:06 PM   #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supervij View Post
[Show spoiler]Hi again, red_5ive! Iím just about to meet the Kijiji guy for the used A770 and it occurred to me...is the A770 similar in that I can use the presence speakers as Atmos fronts? I canít find the manual online but Iíll look again.

EDIT: just found it at https://usa.yamaha.com/files/downloa...CRAF_En_A0.pdf and yes, I believe it can do the same.


Iím experiencing the slightest bit of buyerís remorse, as I keep thinking about that sampling rate for SACDs. But then I remember that Iím saving $300, there are always things Iíll miss out on without the latest and greatest, and I have only a couple dozen SACDs anyway. No big.
So I got curious and downloaded a free dsd music sample in DSD64/2.8 MHz and DSD256/11.2 MHz from Blue Coast Music and did some not-very-scientific listening tests on my A5200. I verified each were the specified sample rates as I listened and... I can't tell the difference. Granted it was only one song and maybe I needed something more like an orchestra recording to test with, but regardless I'm still very happy with what I hear with DSD64.
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Old 09-17-2020, 12:51 PM   #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red_5ive View Post
So I got curious and downloaded a free dsd music sample in DSD64/2.8 MHz and DSD256/11.2 MHz from Blue Coast Music and did some not-very-scientific listening tests on my A5200. I verified each were the specified sample rates as I listened and... I can't tell the difference. Granted it was only one song and maybe I needed something more like an orchestra recording to test with, but regardless I'm still very happy with what I hear with DSD64.
Is it wrong of me to be happy you couldnít hear the difference? Cos if you canít using your gear, I definitely wouldnít hear the difference with mine. Plus I saved an extra $350 CND, so yay!
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Old 09-17-2020, 01:03 PM   #358
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YPAO is kinda funny in the A770 compared to my settings I had for my old V750. It seems to think all my speakers (including centres and bookshelves) should be set to large with crossovers around 40 for the fronts and 60 for the bookshelves. I manually changed them all back to small and set global crossover at 80. But maybe I’ll try out the suggested settings and determine for myself.

It also set subwoofer distance at 1 foot away rather than the 8 feet away that the old V750 set. The speaker levels on the new A770 have the surrounds lower by a couple db and the rear surrounds by 10!

I couldn’t find my RS SPL meter or I would’ve set the levels manually. Hopefully I’ll find it soon and can set these wonky levels.

But, oh, what a pretty interface compared to the old V750b
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Old 09-17-2020, 06:39 PM   #359
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Is it wrong of me to be happy you couldnít hear the difference? Cos if you canít using your gear, I definitely wouldnít hear the difference with mine. Plus I saved an extra $350 CND, so yay!
Well I admit I'm probably not the best source for that. I like to think I have a good ear, but a lot of times as long as things sound clean, there's a sound stage, and my ears aren't being hurt by low-bitrate music files, I'm happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supervij View Post
YPAO is kinda funny in the A770 compared to my settings I had for my old V750. It seems to think all my speakers (including centres and bookshelves) should be set to large with crossovers around 40 for the fronts and 60 for the bookshelves. I manually changed them all back to small and set global crossover at 80. But maybe Iíll try out the suggested settings and determine for myself.

It also set subwoofer distance at 1 foot away rather than the 8 feet away that the old V750 set. The speaker levels on the new A770 have the surrounds lower by a couple db and the rear surrounds by 10!

I couldnít find my RS SPL meter or I wouldíve set the levels manually. Hopefully Iíll find it soon and can set these wonky levels.

But, oh, what a pretty interface compared to the old V750b
While I think YPAO has come a very long way, especially in the 7 year gap between my prior Yamaha's to the current line, still pretty much every Aventage model I've ever had has set my speakers to large. I have monitors in my mancave that have a steep drop at 80Hz, but still YPAO sets them to large. If someone told me that it's actually a feature, I'd believe it. But in the end, I still would probably change the crossovers anyway and also reset the levels with an SPL. I don't think I've ever not done that with any AVR/Pre-pro I've owned, Yamaha or not.
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Old 09-18-2020, 03:36 PM   #360
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I finally heard back from Yamaha yesterday. I had asked them “ I can’t decide between buying the 685 or 780 receivers. What is the difference between them? Can the presence channels be reassigned as front Atmos speakers?”. Here’s their reply:

Quote:
Please note that the RXA780 and RXV685 are almost identical units.

Here's is the quick list of differences:
- 4 year warranty on RXA780 vs 2 years on RXV685
- Metal faceplate on RXA780 vs Plastic on RXV685
- Anti-Resonance-Technology (5th foot in center bottom plate)

Everything else "under the hood" is exactly the same.
They’re the same except for warranty, faceplate and 5th foot? So much for Aventage being “a dramatic and inspired leap forward”.
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