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Old 11-17-2016, 10:44 PM   #41
ArmyOfDarknessAW ArmyOfDarknessAW is offline
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If everyone that is so fearful about the potential downfalls of digital actually thought about all the different ways you can die in a normal day they may never leave the house haha. Beat to live for now imo of course.

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Old 11-17-2016, 10:53 PM   #42
Dynamo of Eternia Dynamo of Eternia is offline
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Originally Posted by ArmyOfDarknessAW View Post
If everyone that is so fearful about the potential downfalls of digital actually thought about all the different ways you can die in a normal day they may never leave the house haha. Beat to live for now imo of course.
That's not really an accurate comparison. There's a difference between living and not living life, and choosing to spend one's money on something that will likely last longer.

You are free to have your opinion, but just now that if you ever do lose access to your Xbox digital games, your 700+ Steam games, or anything akin to that, and you are here in these gaming forums being upset, angry, and complaining about it, I'll reply reminding you of what you posted here.


Also, calling it "fear of the unknown" isn't entirely accurate. We've seen companies go in and out of business over the years. Most companies that are still in business and have been for many, many years change up their products over time (you don't see Sony making VCRs anymore, just as you don't see MS making the original Xbox), and as that happens and time passes, they stop supporting those older products sooner or later. The future is only "unknown" insofar as we don't know the exact circumstances under which at least some digital content will be rendered unavailable in any official manner going forward within our lifetimes, but it's pretty much a certainty that something like this WILL happen sooner or later.

With physical products that are no longer supported by the original company, people who care about them can still have methods to maintain them. With digital distribution, there's no legal way to do that.

Last edited by Dynamo of Eternia; 11-17-2016 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 11-17-2016, 11:02 PM   #43
ArmyOfDarknessAW ArmyOfDarknessAW is offline
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Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia View Post
That's not really an accurate comparison. There's a difference between living and not living life, and choosing to spend one's money on something that will likely last longer.

You are free to have your opinion, but just now that if you ever do lose access to your Xbox digital games, your 700+ Steam games, or anything akin to that, and you are here in these gaming forums being upset, angry, and complaining about it, I'll reply reminding you of what you posted here.
No it's not just now sorry to tell you. I purchase a car and it drops in value immediately until eventually very little, I buy furniture and eventually it needs to be replaced, I need to replace appliances, clothes need to be replaced over time, plus many more examples. So why exactly would I get upset over losing access to very cheap games 10 years down the road when more expensive things don't last forever? Sorry if that bums you out that things don't last forever. Not even physical games will last forever. Turn on your PS4 in 2060 and see how that goes for you. Plus enjoy going to eBay for the almost zero that will be on there in working condition.
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Old 11-17-2016, 11:14 PM   #44
Dynamo of Eternia Dynamo of Eternia is offline
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No it's not just now sorry to tell you. I purchase a car and it drops in value immediately until eventually very little, I buy furniture and eventually it needs to be replaced, I need to replace appliances, clothes need to be replaced over time, plus many more examples. So why exactly would I get upset over losing access to very cheap games 10 years down the road when more expensive things don't last forever? Sorry if that bums you out that things don't last forever. Not even physical games will last forever. Turn on your PS4 in 2060 and see how that goes for you. Plus enjoy going to eBay for the almost zero that will be on there in working condition.
See my edit in my above post.

Also, there's a difference IMO between entertainment items and the sorts of items you mentioned. Yeah, a couch will wear out and need to be replaced. But I've never heard of anyone "collecting" couches (there's probably someone out there who does, but they're the extreme exception) or appliances. While the look and style is important, fundamentally a couch mostly serves a functional purpose as a place to sit. So assuming that one replaces one couch with another that is at least as comfortable if not more so, the function is maintained. Same thing with replacing one stove with another, etc.

The same thing kind of applies to cars, though for those who have the interest and the financial means, there are, of course, car collectors out there. But that falls under the category of my edit to my last post about being able to maintain a physical item.

With things like movies, video games, etc., one experience doesn't necessarily "replace" another in terms of different content. Watching a new movie or playing a new video game does not necessarily remove someone's interest in wanting to revisit past movies/games.

And past video games aren't re-releases as often or frequently in new formats as movies. And some games can't legally be re-released without renewing long expired licenses - an issue that movie studios don't have. To make another TMNT related example, Konami can't re-release their old TMNT games on new platforms without renewing the license for TMNT. However, WB, who owns the live action films from the 90s and CGI film from 2007, can re-release those films until their blue in the face, despite the newer films being made my Paramount.

At any rate, that's all I'll say about this for now, as it's obviously WAY off topic at this point.
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Old 11-17-2016, 11:23 PM   #45
ArmyOfDarknessAW ArmyOfDarknessAW is offline
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See my edit in my above post.

Also, there's a difference IMO between entertainment items and the sorts of items you mentioned. Yeah, a couch will wear out and need to be replaced. But I've never heard of anyone "collecting" couches (there's probably someone out there who does, but they're the extreme exception) or appliances. While the look and style is important, fundamentally a couch mostly serves a functional purpose as a place to sit. So assuming that one replaces one couch with another that is at least as comfortable if not more so, the function is maintained. Same thing with replacing one stove with another, etc.

The same thing kind of applies to cars, though for those who have the interest and the financial means, there are, of course, car collectors out there. But that falls under the category of my edit to my last post about being able to maintain a physical item.

With things like movies, video games, etc., one experience doesn't necessarily "replace" another in terms of different content. Watching a new movie or playing a new video game does not necessarily remove someone's interest in wanting to revisit past movies/games.

And past video games aren't re-releases as often or frequently in new formats as movies. And some games can't legally be re-released without renewing long expired licenses - an issue that movie studios don't have. To make another TMNT related example, Konami can't re-release their old TMNT games on new platforms without renewing the license for TMNT. However, WB, who owns the live action films from the 90s and CGI film from 2007, can re-release those films until their blue in the face, despite the newer films being made my Paramount.

At any rate, that's all I'll say about this for now, as it's obviously WAY off topic at this point.
Not everyone that plays games is a collector as you may think they are. I just want to play games. I don't need to build up a massive collection to be proud of or something. And my examples of those items practical items or not are pointing out I spend way more money on things that don't last forever. Getting upset about losing a $60 game many years down the road seems super trivial. Anyway I guess I'm good ending it here. We have way way different tales on what actually matters when it comes to gaming.
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Old 11-18-2016, 12:16 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyOfDarknessAW View Post
Not everyone that plays games is a collector as you may think they are. I just want to play games. I don't need to build up a massive collection to be proud of or something. And my examples of those items practical items or not are pointing out I spend way more money on things that don't last forever. Getting upset about losing a $60 game many years down the road seems super trivial. Anyway I guess I'm good ending it here. We have way way different tales on what actually matters when it comes to gaming.
There are video game players, and video game collectors, you are obviously the former. I can still play my NES games from my childhood. If my system breaks I can buy a new one and still play all of my games. I guarantee ten years from now, let alone 20, Sony or Microsoft will not be supporting their current digital games, so if the system dies, you are screwed. That's the argument. Just because a game is old, doesn't mean it's less fun to play. I play more on my SNES then I do any other system, but if they were digital I doubt that would be the case.
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Old 11-18-2016, 12:44 PM   #47
Dynamo of Eternia Dynamo of Eternia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyOfDarknessAW View Post
Not everyone that plays games is a collector as you may think they are. I just want to play games. I don't need to build up a massive collection to be proud of or something. And my examples of those items practical items or not are pointing out I spend way more money on things that don't last forever. Getting upset about losing a $60 game many years down the road seems super trivial. Anyway I guess I'm good ending it here. We have way way different tales on what actually matters when it comes to gaming.
I don't think that everyone is a collector. (collector is kind of a loaded term anyway, because there are those who collect to play, and those who try to go for complete collections of games for systems, including the crappiest ones, most of which they'll never play - I fall under the former, and not the latter - and I get that there are those that don't fall under either of these).

But my point is that we should all have a choice in the matter. When gamers like yourself move on from older systems/games and trade them in, that helps keep a supply available for those who do want to maintain and add to their collections of older systems/games. There's a nice symbiotic relationship there. People like yourself get to sell off your old games and get at least something back for them. And gamers like me are interested in buying that stuff. Without people who collect for one reason or another, there wouldn't be as many people for you to sell your old stuff to directly or indirectly.

Digital completely ruins those options. You may not care about going back and playing older systems, and that's fine... but it should be that way for you because you CHOOSE for it to be that way... not because all gamers will be more or less forced into it due to the problems that will eventually surface from digital gaming. People like yourself don't think about these things because the 360 and PS3 were the first consoles to really embrace digital in a big way (the original Xbox had it to some degree - support for which was dropped years ago BTW - but it was on a much smaller scale), and for now support for them still exists since they had an unusually long system cycle. But those systems are pretty much all but retired. You can still buy some new games in stores, but the systems are no longer manufactured. It's very questionable how long Sony and MS will support them. This is a matter of when, not if.

Not that I actually want anyone to lose access to their games, but in terms of it being a wake-up call, I actually hope at some point this sort of thing does bite you and others like yourself in the rear end. Once it does, you'll be less flippant about it. Whether it be in the near future or 10-20 years from now, if you were to ever lose access to your 700+ Steam games, I'm sure you'd be quite angry and have a lot to say about it.


Also, understand that while you and most people, myself included, spend more money on stuff that won't last forever, most of those are things that we expect to replace at some point in time down the road, and don't intend to "collect." But for those who do collect certain things (be it games or anything else), the financial investment in that collection really has to be considered, and those things are often purchased with the long term in mind. Losing access to a $60 game years down the road may seem trivial to you, but losing access to multiple $60 games is a different story (and even when losing access to a single game, how much of a problem that is can depend on how much someone enjoyed and cared about that particular game). I don't look at the purchase of each game or system as a trivial, individual purchase. I look at the purchase of a system and all of the games/peripherals that go with it as a collective expense/"investment" (from an entertainment standpoint). That can easily add up to a couple/few thousand dollars for any given system depending on the amount of games on has for it. Then add up all systems that someone has, and that increases that much more.

Last edited by Dynamo of Eternia; 11-18-2016 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 11-18-2016, 12:53 PM   #48
ArmyOfDarknessAW ArmyOfDarknessAW is offline
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Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia View Post
I don't think that everyone is a collector. (collector is kind of a loaded term anyway, because there are those who collect to play, and those who try to go for complete collections of games for systems, including the crappiest ones, most of which they'll never play - I fall under the former, and not the latter).

But my point is that we should all have a choice in the matter. When gamers like yourself move on from older systems/games and trade them in, that helps keep a supply available for those who do want to maintain and add to their collections of older systems/games. There's a nice symbiotic relationship there. People like yourself get to sell off your old games and get at least something back for them. And gamers like me are interested in buying that stuff. Without people who collect for one reason or another, there wouldn't be as many people for you to sell your old stuff to directly or indirectly.

Digital completely ruins those options. You may not care about going back and playing older systems, and that's fine... but it should be that way for you because you CHOOSE for it to be that way... not because all gamers will be more or less forced into it due to the problems that will eventually surface from digital gaming. People like yourself don't think about these things because the 360 and PS3 were the first consoles to really embrace digital in a big way (the original Xbox had it to some degree - support for which was dropped years ago BTW - but it was on a much smaller scale), and for now support for them still exists since they had an unusually long system cycle. But those systems are pretty much all but retired. You can still buy some new games in stores, but the systems are no longer manufactured. It's very questionable how long Sony and MS will support them. This is a matter of when, not if.

Not that I actually want anyone to lose access to their games, but in terms of it being a wake-up call, I actually hope at some point this sort of thing does bite you and others like yourself in the rear end. Once it does, you'll be less flippant about it. Whether it be in the near future or 10-20 years from now, if you were to ever lose access to your 700+ Steam games, I'm sure you'd be quite angry and have a lot to say about it.
Haha whoa whoa back things up. Who the hell said i don't play older games? I don't believe I've said that.



I hook them up and play when I want to play a game. That doesn't make me a collector though. They are a means to play the video games. I'm willing to the play the game on am NES or a Wii U I don't really care. A game is game regardless if it is on a cart, a disc, or digital. I'll continue to buy games in whatever way I need or want to PLAY the game not to look at the cart.

I'm sick of reading all this digital is ruining things hyperbole. Continue to think whatever you want. I'll continue to play and buy games in all different ways.


Also thanks for the warming support hoping me playing video games bites me in the ass. Yeah me buying games in digital or whatever is definitely worth hoping it bites me in the ass. Haha the amount of supposition in your post about my gaming habits is quite funny. Again keep guessing how I'll feel or how I play games and that I obviously sell all my old stuff.

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Old 11-18-2016, 01:07 PM   #49
ArmyOfDarknessAW ArmyOfDarknessAW is offline
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Just saw your edit. The fact you look at gaming as an "investment" is enough for me. You can keep track of what your stuff is worth and how much investment you have. I'll actually play the games...the whole purpose of a video game.
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Old 11-18-2016, 01:14 PM   #50
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Haha whoa whoa back things up. Who the hell said i don't play older games? I don't believe I've said that.

I hook them up and play when I want to play a game. That doesn't make me a collector though. They are a means to play the video games. I'm willing to the play the game on am NES or a Wii U I don't really care. A game is game regardless if it is on a cart, a disc, or digital. I'll continue to buy games in whatever way I need or want to PLAY the game not to look at the cart.
It sounds like our gaming habbits aren't all that different, then. Your posts up to this point made it seem otherwise IMO. I'm not "collecting to collect" or to "look at the cart." I collect to play. But as I pointed out earlier, many games don't get re-released on newer consoles, so losing access to them is of concern to me.

Quote:
I'm sick of reading all this digital is ruining things hyperbole. Continue to think whatever you want. I'll continue to play and buy games in all different ways.


Also thanks for the warming support hoping me playing video games bites me in the ass. Yeah me buying games in digital or whatever is definitely worth hoping it bites me in the ass. Haha the amount of supposition in your post about my gaming habits is quite funny. Again keep guessing how I'll feel or how I play games and that I obviously sell all my old stuff.
Again, I was mistaken thinking you didn't keep your older systems. But it shouldn't be too hard to see why one might get that impression from your responses here.

And like I said, it's not that I actually want anyone to lose access to their games, but I just want people to wake up to the real issues with digital distribution overall.

You can be sick of reading these things about digital all you want. But come a time when several games that you enjoy are impacted by servers going down and such, I find it hard to believe that you'll shrug it off as a non issue like you are right now.
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Old 11-18-2016, 01:23 PM   #51
Dynamo of Eternia Dynamo of Eternia is offline
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Just saw your edit. The fact you look at gaming as an "investment" is enough for me. You can keep track of what your stuff is worth and how much investment you have. I'll actually play the games...the whole purpose of a video game.
And you are mistaken on this just as I was about assuming that you didn't hang onto old systems.

I meant an entertainment investment and the collective cost that goes into obtaining that - not a financial investment for later resale. Much in the same way as the movies that I buy on Blu-Ray and DVD, which I buy to watch and not resell - I buy games to play, but video games aren't re-released on newer platforms as often as movies are (and even in the case of movies, many still don't get rereleased). I don't make it a point to keep track of what each item is worth monetarily. Frankly the things that have shot up in value I actually wish would come down quite a bit- that way if I ever have to replace it, it will be much cheaper to do so.

Most of my older games and systems are from when they were "current." I just never sold them off, and I just pick up the occasional older game for them from time to time.

But as I said in a previous post, earlier this year, I discovered that my original Sega Saturn stopped working. I have several games for it. I was able to buy a couple of replacement systems and still play those games. Had digital distribution existed in the mid 90s at the time this system was around and that was the only way to get many of the games that I have for it or even part of the content in those games, then I'd be out of luck right now, as Sega got out of the console business 15 years ago. I doubt they'd be maintaining servers. So in that sense, I have first hand experience of a long retired system dying out, and knowing how I would be impacted had digital distribution been the delivery method of at least some of the content on that system. I wouldn't have just lost access to a "single $60 game." I would have lost access to a number of games that I originally spent a lot of money on.

Last edited by Dynamo of Eternia; 11-18-2016 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 11-18-2016, 01:28 PM   #52
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Again, I was mistaken thinking you didn't keep your older systems. But it shouldn't be too hard to see why one might get that impression from your responses here.
Personally I don't see how me being pro digital in posts means I'm anti physical and sell my old stuff. One doesn't equal the other. As I said I'm for gaming....in whatever way that is. I don't rebuy a game in digital or physical. I'll buy it the once for whatever I like and I'm good because my goal is to play the game.

And when you look at it they both have pros and cons, but people only look at the cons of digital. On my Xbox my friend and I were able to set up each other's houses home consoles and we got whatever the other one bought. We got twice the games that way...it way great. Especially for a game like COD which we would have bought two of. There is also a greater chance my house is robbed or burned down than Microsoft or Sony pulling support anytime soon. Sure it may happen....it may not. Right now it's pure guesswork. Sure there have been some precedents in digital stuff being shut down and such, but most allowed you to keep your stuff or transfer it. They gave ample warning. Ones that did not were honestly ones that were so new into that forefront I wouldn't have purchased from them anyway. Valve, Sony, and Microsoft are massive corporations that make a ton off gaming and is a major focus. I'm not worried about them going under or pulling support anytime soon. If it happens I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
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Old 11-18-2016, 01:32 PM   #53
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Anyway if we need to continue take it to PM. We've derailed this thread plenty. I think we both know where each other stand on this by now though.

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Old 11-18-2016, 01:33 PM   #54
Dynamo of Eternia Dynamo of Eternia is offline
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Personally I don't see how me being pro digital in posts means I'm anti physical and sell my old stuff.
I didn't get the impression that you were necessarily anti-physical, but rather that you seemed to be unconcerned with having/losing access to older games, that it made sense to assume that you either didn't keep older games around or at the very least if you never did sell them off, that they are just sitting in a corner somewhere collecting dust.
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Old 11-18-2016, 02:08 PM   #55
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For me, the reason I've embraced digital is because I've simply reached a point in my life where I'm tired of accumulating more shit to keep up with. The older I get, the FEWER things I want cluttering up my space and my life overall. That's what makes digital so great. I can amass a giant library of games and I don't have to worry about where to store all of it. I don't even buy Blu Rays anymore because, what for? Virtually everything is available now either by digital download or streaming and it's only a click away. I don't have to worry about shelf space, I don't have to worry about anything getting lost or damaged. The only thing I have to worry about is hard drive space. To me that's a win win.

Now having said that, I probably will buck this trend with the Nintendo Switch. However the game cards are probably going to be so small, storing those shouldn't be too much of problem.
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Old 11-18-2016, 02:17 PM   #56
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I have no collections anymore either, I keep a small shelf of the current games that my family plays and that's about it.
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Old 12-02-2016, 08:55 PM   #57
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Old 12-05-2016, 03:54 PM   #58
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This is an interesting read:

http://kotaku.com/why-some-video-gam...ore-1789609791
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Old 12-05-2016, 04:19 PM   #59
ArmyOfDarknessAW ArmyOfDarknessAW is offline
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Thanks that was a good read. Unfortunately games get lost in time....it happens. Until it was rereleased on GOG and Steam I was completely unable to play Carmageddon 2 which I loved. Newer PCs just couldn't play the game. I spent hours and hours reading how to make it work and I just couldn't. I was so excited when it was released to work on Windows 8.
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Old 12-05-2016, 07:30 PM   #60
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Nintendo - "Hey Android users...**** you!"
Statically, Android users don't like to pay for things. Nintendo is just targeting users that are most likely to buy the app.
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