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Old 03-03-2017, 02:53 PM   #61
evoll evoll is online now
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Imo it depends on what you are going to use your build for, if more of a work station that needs more cores than the ryzen is the way to go but for gaming I would stick with Intel. I have a guy I am doing a water-cooled build for now and he is doing mostly gaming so we stayed with Intel. It def is good to see AMD is coming back with some nice products esp for the budget based builds.
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Old 03-03-2017, 03:20 PM   #62
Wingman1977 Wingman1977 is offline
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Originally Posted by evoll View Post
Imo it depends on what you are going to use your build for, if more of a work station that needs more cores than the ryzen is the way to go but for gaming I would stick with Intel. I have a guy I am doing a water-cooled build for now and he is doing mostly gaming so we stayed with Intel. It def is good to see AMD is coming back with some nice products esp for the budget based builds.
Agreed. This is another example of what happens when people board on the hype train (people online were making this CPU out to be the second coming). As far as people talking about a BIOS update will correct the shortcomings, we'll wait and see.
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Old 03-03-2017, 03:54 PM   #63
Nick The Slick Nick The Slick is offline
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Originally Posted by Wingman1977 View Post
Agreed. This is another example of what happens when people board on the hype train (people online were making this CPU out to be the second coming). As far as people talking about a BIOS update will correct the shortcomings, we'll wait and see.
Let's be clear here, we're talking about it fixing the memory speed and latency issues. And this isn't speculation, this has come from board partners that they're working with AMD to release an update within the next month to hopefully address this issue. Higher speed RAM just happens to bring the side effect of a little better performance as well.

As far as people hoping this to be the second coming? I guess that's a fair statement, but while Ryzen hasn't blown Intel away, I still think it met my expectations and I feel the hype train was fully justified. It brought serious competition back to the high end and, while I won't hold my breath, we still have the 6c12t and 4c8t CPUs to release that could make a better run at the 7700k depending on their OC headroom (I know you've stated before that you don't overclock so this doesn't apply to you, but it's still a valid point).

Raw clock speed is where Ryzen is getting beat by the 7700k since they have about the same IPC, but that was expected on an 8 core CPU. What wasn't expected was the lack of OC headroom. 6900k can clock up to 4.3/4.4 on average but these first versions of 1700x and 1800x are topping out at 4.0/4.1 (well, for reviewers. We'll see what happens when users get their hands on them). Again, not holding my breath but hopefully the 4 and 6 cores will have some more headroom and will be able to hit the 4.5-4.8 range to throw some blows at the 7700k in gaming. Regardless, I expect clocks to get better over time though as they refine the process and release new steppings.

Finally, we haven't even seen their server offerings yet, which is where the big bucks are and where AMD really needs to be focused with Intel holding over a 90% market share. If AMD can claw back here and get some serious revenue flowing, expect big things from Zen+ (the next planned release on the AM4 platform).
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Old 03-05-2017, 11:33 PM   #64
Wingman1977 Wingman1977 is offline
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Wow, just when you thought that the trolls of the web couldn't get any lower, this happens:

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Old 03-06-2017, 12:47 AM   #65
Nick The Slick Nick The Slick is offline
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Originally Posted by Wingman1977 View Post
Wow, just when you thought that the trolls of the web couldn't get any lower, this happens:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPnW_lY7qPY
Yea the state of the community is pretty sad right now. I'm all for good healthy debates but some people take it way too far. The fanboy mentality never ceases to amaze me. Couldn't agree more with everything this guy said, even his summary of Ryzen so far.
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Old 03-06-2017, 01:57 PM   #66
Wingman1977 Wingman1977 is offline
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Yea the state of the community is pretty sad right now. I'm all for good healthy debates but some people take it way too far. The fanboy mentality never ceases to amaze me. Couldn't agree more with everything this guy said, even his summary of Ryzen so far.
AMD fanboys have their anger misplaced. Instead of flaming the reviewers,, they shoould place their anger at AMD for over hyping the Ryzen CPU's
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Old 03-06-2017, 03:19 PM   #67
R3P0 R3P0 is offline
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Its a good starting point for AMD, they just need to build on it consistently.
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Old 03-06-2017, 04:39 PM   #68
Nick The Slick Nick The Slick is offline
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Originally Posted by Wingman1977 View Post
AMD fanboys have their anger misplaced. Instead of flaming the reviewers,, they shoould place their anger at AMD for over hyping the Ryzen CPU's
AMD didn't over hype it though? They presented it for exactly what it is. People have no one but themselves to blame if it didn't meet their expectations.

Last edited by Nick The Slick; 03-06-2017 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:03 PM   #69
42041 42041 is offline
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AMD fanboys have their anger misplaced. Instead of flaming the reviewers,, they shoould place their anger at AMD for over hyping the Ryzen CPU's
AMD delivered exactly what they said they were going to deliver. If idiots can't be bothered to actually read the pre-release information before making up their own performance targets and foaming at the mouth when AMD doesn't hit them, that's on them. The pre-release targets basically pointed at this performing on par with Intel's Haswell/Broadwell architecture, IPC-wise, and it does just that (more or less). AMD didn't say much about peak clock speeds or overclocking headroom, as far as I know, so anyone getting angry about that is angry about shit AMD was never hyping.
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:16 PM   #70
R3P0 R3P0 is offline
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Exactly for someone on a budget this chip is a good value chip. Now AMD needs to drop money into research and in 2 years truly give Intel a run for its money.
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Old 03-06-2017, 06:08 PM   #71
Nick The Slick Nick The Slick is offline
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AMD delivered exactly what they said they were going to deliver. If idiots can't be bothered to actually read the pre-release information before making up their own performance targets and foaming at the mouth when AMD doesn't hit them, that's on them. The pre-release targets basically pointed at this performing on par with Intel's Haswell/Broadwell architecture, IPC-wise, and it does just that (more or less). AMD didn't say much about peak clock speeds or overclocking headroom, as far as I know, so anyone getting angry about that is angry about shit AMD was never hyping.
Exactly. AMD actually exceeded their ipc projections. They originally stated +40% over Excavator which would put it at Ivy Bridge/Haswell ipc, they actually achieved +52% which puts it at Haswell-e/Skylake ipc.

The overclocking headroom was pure speculation though, which I was a little disappointed in but only have myself to blame for that. Again on this point though, we still have the 4c8t and 6c12t versions to come which could (not holding my breath) provide more clock speed headroom just as Intel's 4c8t chips can clock much higher than their 8c16t counterparts.

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Exactly for someone on a budget this chip is a good value chip. Now AMD needs to drop money into research and in 2 years truly give Intel a run for its money.
Even without a budget I find it hard to choose Intel HEDT over Ryzen. The only real advantages it has at this point are quad channel RAM (which only really benefits benchmarks and intense computation applications) and more PCIe lanes which would be hard to justify for me personally at the premium you pay for it, but a lot of people can benefit from it so it does have a purpose (and I'm not talking about SLI here, it's been proven x8/x8 PCIe 3.0 does not significantly reduce performance over x16/x16).

Good point about AMD putting money into research, which is exactly what Ryzen can allow them to do, especially if their server chips can start digging into the server market share where the real money is. If this happens expect Zen+ or new revisions/steppings of Ryzen to address some of the current shortcomings.
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Old 03-06-2017, 06:09 PM   #72
42041 42041 is offline
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Now AMD needs to drop money into research and in 2 years truly give Intel a run for its money.
Problem is, Intel is a much bigger company with a lot more money and people and their own fabs, so that's unlikely to work out well for them.

The more likely scenario is that AMD and Intel will roughly converge on performance, as all the potential of modern semiconductor technology gets squeezed out (and I suspect we're pretty close to that point already, judging by how thoroughly comfortable Intel's been at the top of the high power/performance space for so many years in the face of competitors like AMD/Oracle/IBM) and designers run out of clever microarchitectural tricks.

Last edited by 42041; 03-06-2017 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 03-08-2017, 02:23 PM   #73
R3P0 R3P0 is offline
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Problem is, Intel is a much bigger company with a lot more money and people and their own fabs, so that's unlikely to work out well for them.

The more likely scenario is that AMD and Intel will roughly converge on performance, as all the potential of modern semiconductor technology gets squeezed out (and I suspect we're pretty close to that point already, judging by how thoroughly comfortable Intel's been at the top of the high power/performance space for so many years in the face of competitors like AMD/Oracle/IBM) and designers run out of clever microarchitectural tricks.
How do smaller companies become bigger, smart investments and word of mouth. Basic marketing technique is to do you best because 1 positive user experience will tell 2 more users about it. 1 Negative will tell 10.

AMD has not screwed up because the chips are not bad and everyone who builds PC's knows new architecture will always require firmware updates and drivers.

AMD can contain any situation with Ryzen right now simply by doing good quality control. I have not heard any issues with regards to Ryzen having the same problems as the previous release of AMD chips.

As for investment in RND take this chips profits and maximize it. Dont give it to the shareholders, invest in yourself and then the profits will come with better products. I'm rooting for AMD to recover here because it will drive both companies to be a success.
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Old 03-17-2017, 03:54 AM   #74
Wingman1977 Wingman1977 is offline
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AMD's affordable Ryzen 5 CPUs arrive April 11 starting at $169.
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