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Old 11-17-2017, 12:56 PM   #1
levcore levcore is online now
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Talking The General Public and 3D

So just for a subject of discussion I often think about the perspective of the general public and 3D, mainly their ambivalence and apathy towards the format and what that means. Is it symptomatic of the general public's apathy towards most things like that, for example sound systems etc.

I am hugely enthusiastic about 3D but know so few people in my actual life who enjoy or have embraced the format. I mean most people I know hardly ever go to the cinema, let alone care about whether something is in 3D or not.

It can be tough being a big movie fan and engaging with casual movie fans who basically couldn't care less about stuff like picture quality, sound quality and 3D etc. I mean most people I know still watch DVDs and have never even seen a blu ray, let a lone a 3D blu ray.

It's impossible to get people enthused about something like this too. I bang onto colleagues about blu ray and how great a format it is, but these are people who can't even be bothered to buy a DVD, let alone anything better.

Part of me wonders if, due to the general nature of people, 3D was always destined to be niche and never take off as a format embraced by the vast majority. People are so apathetic toward stuff and especially anything that requires doing anything different (like wearing 3D glasses). I mean look at VR, it's absolutely amazing yet how many people have embraced it.

Even people I know who have really enjoyed a 3D movie in theatres haven't really done anything about it after that. They have no desire to own a 3D TV and watch 3D blu rays. It's weird. I guess I struggle to understand people being so unenthusiastic about something I love but that's just life I guess.

That was a bit of a rambling post
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Old 11-17-2017, 01:42 PM   #2
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That's life as you say.

Happens with all kinds of things in life. Some folks don't understand why their friends don't like, for example, fine wines and instead rather just drink box wines or no wine at all. Some folks are foodies. Some folks will spend 1000's of dollars on every new iphone that comes out even when the one they have works perfectly fine, yet their friends are content with a basic smartphone, or even a flip phone.

There are millions of examples of this and 3D is just one of them. The general public just didn't care enough to invest in the format and deal with the extra steps it took for a family or group to sit and enjoy a movie at home. As we close out 2017, the same folks who think DVD is just fine are now switching over to streaming their movies to their smart 4K TV's yet they don't even care if the streaming movie is 4K, honestly, they don't even know what resolution it's in most likely.

3D at home is on life support and the power plug to it is almost pulled out of the wall at this point, so enjoy it while you can. Keep you equipment in tiptop shape so it lasts a while.

3D at theaters is slowly fading as well, it's probably half of what it was during it's peak. Today IMAX dumped 3D (other than Marvel) and many theaters are making their money from 2D and showing 3D stuff on smaller screens and only a handful of times during the day.

3D was a fad that a niche of folks hoped would explode and be as commonplace as DVD's but that never happened and now they struggle to deal with its departure. Will it ever come back, probably when some company invents the 3D with no glasses TV that actually works, but even then, costs will probably cause it to be an uber niche item so it most likely won't take off.

I know many here and on other forums have a tough time dealing with it and it sucks being them, but life goes on and they will have to deal with failures, be it 3D or whatever other "greatest" thing comes and goes that they embrace.

It's tough being in the minority, but you'll get through it.
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Old 11-17-2017, 02:32 PM   #3
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People don't like things that require extra attention or effort, whether that's 3D with its glasses or VR with its ridiculous headset and cabling.

Convenience is king.
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Old 11-17-2017, 03:32 PM   #4
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id say the vast majority watch woeful quality streaming- they will watch a horrendous stream from kodi box of a new film that stutters and stops, just to save a few quid.

the manufacturers will just want money, but its frustrating them dropping support to current technology, like 3d sound but 2d pic, crazy.
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Old 11-17-2017, 04:21 PM   #5
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As long as studios churn out quality movies with good 3D, I will keep buying. But one day, I'm afraid they are no longer going to release anything in 3D. I pray that never happens but 3D is only enjoyed by few. As far as raw number of these few 3d enthusiast is my guess but from looking at all the sold out 3D movies recently, I bet there are lot more than we think which is good.

Because of my interest in 3D movies, my kids love them. It's only way to watch movies if it is available in 3D. My wife in the other hand, she doesn't seem to care for it that much.
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Old 11-17-2017, 04:25 PM   #6
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I wouldn't equate "sold out" discs with having a huge fanbase.

You and I know that at this point the disc makers are probably making a TINY..TINY fraction of discs in 3D to put up for sale. So even though they disappear quick, it's because when a store has 3 in stock (vs. say 50+ per location) of the 4K, it will seem to the 3D enthusiast that "Wow, look at how popular 3D is, it's sold OUT!!". No, it's gone because there aren't many if any on the shelves.
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Old 11-17-2017, 04:43 PM   #7
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Actually, in my experience, stores that carry both but more 3D copies than 4k. Sorry, but 4k is not a big seller, despite what the PR tries to sell you. That's why they are practically being given away every few weeks at close-out prices (sometimes only a week or two after release!)

Here's a current anecdotal example: local Target
12 copies of Planet of the Apes in 3D and 6 copies in 4k. As of 2 days ago, 2 3d copies remained (10 sold) and 5 4k copies remained (Only one sold). So this week, they discounted the price of the 4k version...maybe that'll get another copy sold. Over at Best Buy, it would seem that every month has a "Black Friday" 4k sale.

Some people pointed to the 4K Spider-man Homecoming getting a 13% market share as some sort of indication of "success." But years ago, when Amazing Spider-Man 2 in 3D was released, wanna guess what market share was? Yep...13%. Don't be one of those fooled by the hype...4k won't be going anywhere mainstream. But they will continue to be released for one reason only...it is the last time they will be able to re-release their catalog on a physical disc format.

As for the general public, put them in a room and show them a sequence in 4k and then the same sequence in 3d and ask them which they preferred. The answer (in my experience) is always 3D. And with 4k, anyone I show HDR to dislikes it...they ask "why do they alter the movie like that?" Or say it looks "fake," "cartoony", and other adjectives... and I won't even mention how some filmmakers refer to it. I know this flies in the face of what you read on boards like this one but the real world is different. And currently, it will occupy a niche so small that it won't even approach laserdisc penetration.

Last edited by film11; 11-17-2017 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 11-17-2017, 04:54 PM   #8
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And at BB or WM or Target, they have no dedicated 3D section so if you're lucky you may find a stray disc buried withing the Blu or DVD or even 4K piles. I remember in the 3d heyday, BB had a decent sized rack dedicated to 3D. All that is gone now. It is now a big (and getting bigger) row of 4K discs and a ton of DVD/Blu piled up on shelves and in buckets. But not to the same levels it was 10 years ago of course.

But in the end, 4K will overtake the shelves just like all "new" tech does and 3D will be a thing of the past that you will only find at used DVD stores.
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Old 11-17-2017, 05:40 PM   #9
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Hi levcore,

Those I know, the typical consumer, are mostly content having a basic monitor in their living room with a DVD player. No surround system. TV settings either using built-in or eyeballing.

They have separate system for music, but often it's a small compact player, nothing fancy.

The consumer electronics industry has a limited following as far as home theater and home audio is concerned. I know of only one other who has a home theater system besides my brother and I. In addition, more of today's generation goes into computers, I phones, and the sort.

So the focus has to be on specialization because consumer needs are so much varied unlike before when much fewer type products were available. That holds true for 3D as well. When 3D was introduced, i read quotes from corporate executives talking about televisions in terms of a commodity, stating people would upgrade every few years like with computers.

I don't know if they really believed that or were trying to influence peoples buying habits. Even after 3D they hyped having to upgrade with increased refresh rates, higher contrast ratios and four or more primary colors - which really added nothing since those went beyond the scope of human vision and could only be measured in lab tests.

So 3D got caught up in the whole glut of televisions being over produced with consumption no longer sustainable after the HD format became a staple.

There was no reason to drop it as a feature. Some would chose sets with that feature specifically, some irrelevant. Other than Netflix, etc, how many really use the apps that are installed in their monitors today on a regular basis, especially because they can do the sane on their computers and tablets?

So 3D just getting the shaft looking for an instant quick buck rather than the integrity of a product service.
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Old 11-17-2017, 05:45 PM   #10
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True on all counts. For most, a sound bar is as deluxe as most consumers are willing to consider for HT!
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Old 11-17-2017, 06:07 PM   #11
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Imagine how many in the general public have only seen a handful of 3D movies and they were all poor/mild conversions? If that's all I knew of 3D I'd hate 3D too.
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Old 11-17-2017, 06:34 PM   #12
Indy64 Indy64 is offline
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You have to remember too that people couldn't rent many if any 3D movies in their towns most likely. And you know there was no way in heck they would just dump $30+ per movie on blind buys like some crazy folks do so 3D at home had little chance to begin with as far a rental mode goes.
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Old 11-17-2017, 09:31 PM   #13
Zivouhr Zivouhr is offline
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Even a niche market can still generate business/income for those offering 3D in theaters and on blu ray 3D, though with TV manufacturers, they have to realize it's a niche market and offer it as a niche item, not hoping it's a mainstream item and then going all or nothing when it doesn't meet their profit margins, as we saw them do in 2017 for the most part.

As far as people I know in person who enjoy 3D, I agree, that among the many I've spoken to about 3D, it's a rare thing to find someone who goes out of their way to enjoy it.

Good amount of 3D fans in theaters? Yes:
When I visit the 3D theater, I see a medium sized 3D audience during the daytime, and for evening shows, a packed audience for 3D theaters. I first saw Spider-Man Homecoming 3D in July (Cinemark) when it released during the day, to a medium sized audience, and then mid August, saw it again at night, with the 3D theater being fully packed from front to back, and a large sized theater too with high priced tickets (AMC).

So in theaters, 3D is still going even if a percentage of audiences go for the 3D shows. At home, it needs to keep the prices fair (no 34.99$ on release week for blu ray 3D as we've seen), and keep offering the films on blu ray 3D in the US even if in more limited quantities (but stores need to limit 3 per household) so resellers don't buy 100 and then resell them at twice the price.

While it also depends on films offering stronger 3D to reward the audience instead of punishing them with mild 3D, the bottomline is, strong 3D is an awesome, visual experience, so if most people want to pass on being more immersed in the film, that's their loss. 3D can continue without being accepted by the mainstream.
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe D. View Post
I don't know if they really believed that or were trying to influence peoples buying habits. Even after 3D they hyped having to upgrade with increased refresh rates, higher contrast ratios and four or more primary colors - which really added nothing since those went beyond the scope of human vision and could only be measured in lab tests.
Wait, what?
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Old 11-17-2017, 10:53 PM   #15
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True that the general public doesn't care about quality- just look at how long they were happy with VHS and ignored laserdisc, and many happily paid for cable with horrible analog reception. Nowadays they're happy with standard DVD despite its being extremely obsolete, as well as compressed streaming and cable (though thankfully enough people are now waking up and dropping cable for "cord-cutting" to be recognized.)

That said, the industry has really screwed up with 3D and they certainly have a lot of nerve now saying that "nobody wants it." If they had REALLY wanted 3D to succeed, they wouldn't have made it a "premium" format with extra charges. The upcharges for it at theaters have definitely been a turn-off. I'd hoped that people's refusal to pay them would've led to dropping the upcharges, but instead it's led to fewer 3D showings. ALL showings at a theater should be 3D, but there should also be no upcharges for it. Likewise the ONLY Blu-Ray editions of a 3D movie should be 3D, but of course playable in 2D for those without the right equipment. Charging a premium AND making consumers specifically seek out the 3D edition hasn't helped things. The general public will usually take whatever is thrown at them, so imagine how much 3D material they'd have by now if there had been NO separate 2D-only releases of 3D titles.

I noticed at Wal-mart a few days ago that ALL or at least most new TVs seem to have 4K/UHD now, so that won't be something that people will have to seek out to get and pay a premium for, they'll have it whether they want it or not. How should 3D be any different?
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Old 11-18-2017, 03:24 AM   #16
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People are always willing to pay for convenience. That's why streaming is so popular despite the lack of quality.

However, it seems that with DVD most people are satisfied with it. BD has been the home theatre's medium of choice but really most people would rather just stream it and not have to deal with discs.

It's for that reason why I think 4K has no chance of making it as a valid format. At least with 3D you can have a different experience.
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Old 11-18-2017, 05:27 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalashaska View Post
People don't like things that require extra attention or effort, whether that's 3D with its glasses or VR with its ridiculous headset and cabling.

Convenience is king.
This right here sums it up pretty good I think, sad but true. I know people who don't want to watch 3D at home because of the glasses.

Oh btw despite the "ridiculous" headset and cabling, I love my PS VR headset.
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Old 11-18-2017, 06:10 AM   #18
Joe D. Joe D. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shalashaska View Post
Wait, what?
Hi shala,

Gimmicks were created as selling points.

The human eye only sees in three primary colors so the manufacturers who added a fourth and a fifth were in actuality adding nothing to the picture except artificial color saturation.


http://shutha.org/node/809

And the human eye only sees motion at 60hrz yet manufacturers tried to get consumers to buy nrw sets claiming vast improvements in picture quality and motion with 120hrz.

https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2379206,00.asp

BTW, 240 HRZ is required for 3D.
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Old 11-18-2017, 10:30 AM   #19
Shalashaska Shalashaska is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe D. View Post
Hi shala,

Gimmicks were created as selling points.

The human eye only sees in three primary colors so the manufacturers who added a fourth and a fifth were in actuality adding nothing to the picture except artificial color saturation.


http://shutha.org/node/809

And the human eye only sees motion at 60hrz yet manufacturers tried to get consumers to buy nrw sets claiming vast improvements in picture quality and motion with 120hrz.

https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2379206,00.asp

BTW, 240 HRZ is required for 3D.
Are you talking about RGBW pixel structures? I don't see how that's relevant. HDR's about extending dynamic range and contrast to a very noticeable degree, and improving upon colour depth (10-bit/12-bit) and colour gamut (DCI-P3/BT. 2020) for a much more accurate, real image.

I'm not sure where in that article it says "the human eye can only see at 60 Hz", but that's a complete lie. How do you explain to all the people who game on 144 Hz monitors that the big improvements they're seeing in smoothness and clarity is just a fabrication and it's impossible to see past 60 Hz?
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Old 11-18-2017, 01:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8traxrule View Post
ALL showings at a theater should be 3D, but there should also be no upcharges for it. Likewise the ONLY Blu-Ray editions of a 3D movie should be 3D, but of course playable in 2D for those without the right equipment. Charging a premium AND making consumers specifically seek out the 3D edition hasn't helped things. The general public will usually take whatever is thrown at them, so imagine how much 3D material they'd have by now if there had been NO separate 2D-only releases of 3D titles.
I would say wherever this is possible, this is how it should always be done. The releases the 3-D Film archive puts out include the option of 3D or 2D on the one disc, and I don't see any complaints demanding 2d-only editions.

The difficulty with getting wider 3D adoption is this struggle to get passed the chicken or egg stage. Electronics producers may argue there isn't enough content to justify continued hardware production, but because of the lack of hardware out there, studios don't bother releasing the software.
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