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Old 02-16-2020, 10:51 PM   #1
voltz voltz is offline
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Default DVD's and 24fps support

I want to look more into this due to the fact I like having my Blu-ray films in their native frame rate and what I understand is most DVD's are encoded for 30fps. I think I had a few discs that worked with one of my sony players before the thing broke, so I'm trying to figure out what I need to look for or if there are lists of 24fps DVD's out there.
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Old 02-16-2020, 11:26 PM   #2
SillyG SillyG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voltz View Post
I'm trying to figure out what I need to look for or if there are lists of 24fps DVD's out there.
There is no such thing as 24fps DVDs. DVD specs only support 25fps and 29.976fps. A very small number of players may be able to simulate 24fps for DVDs, but it is just that, a simulation.

DVD supports the following resolutions:

PAL: 25fps (50i)
720 576 pixels
704 576 pixels
352 576 pixels
352 288 pixels (also supported at MPEG-1 for VCD backwards compatibility)

NTSC: 29.976fps (60i)
720 480 pixels
704 480 pixels
352 480 pixels
352 240 pixels (also supported at MPEG-1 for VCD backwards compatibility)

Only Blu-rays support native 23.976fps and also 24fps. Blu-ray also supports 59.94fps and 50fps at 720p, but 720p is only rarely used.

Last edited by SillyG; 02-16-2020 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 02-16-2020, 11:35 PM   #3
voltz voltz is offline
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Yeah that's what I know of the NTSC standard.

I've read a few discussions on some DVD's being pressed for 23.976fps before, but I wasn't too sure if I was willing to believe that. However interesting is the my now defunct player used to have both an automatic and 24fps (locked, not automatic) that was able to work with DVD's and it did bare a difference in smoothness. Now that I can't use that I can't go with any further testing until I manage to pick up another player that does keep the 24fps option open.

I'm wondering if anyone else is willing to chime in on this, cause I do think the frame rate is still possible... somehow.
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Old 02-17-2020, 02:49 AM   #4
David M David M is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voltz View Post
I want to look more into this due to the fact I like having my Blu-ray films in their native frame rate and what I understand is most DVD's are encoded for 30fps. I think I had a few discs that worked with one of my sony players before the thing broke, so I'm trying to figure out what I need to look for or if there are lists of 24fps DVD's out there.
Almost all NTSC film releases are encoded with pulldown flags, which is the DVD specification's way of implementing 24fps. The format is still 60hz-centric but a modern player can choose to just ignore the repeat field flags to get 24p output.


Quote:
There is no such thing as 24fps DVDs. DVD specs only support 25fps and 29.976fps. A very small number of players may be able to simulate 24fps for DVDs, but it is just that, a simulation.
The original purpose of the repeat field flags / pulldown in DVD was to improve compression efficiency. But it effectively means it's possible for a player to extract perfect 24p for DVDs encoded this way. It just wasn't (as far as I know) the original reason.
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WaltWiz1901 (02-18-2020)
Old 02-17-2020, 05:30 AM   #5
Geoff D Geoff D is online now
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I still don't like how players do the 24p output from DVDs though David, it still seems a bit choppy on 4K players like the Panny and the OPPO whereas the reverse 3:2 pulldown on my Sony telly is excellente.
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Old 02-18-2020, 07:46 PM   #6
voltz voltz is offline
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I think the Sony BDP series really knew what they were doing. Not sure about their 4k player though.

Too bad they're not exactly built to last and I sure as hell hate Sony's consumer help for products designed to fail after warranty.
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Old 02-19-2020, 07:30 PM   #7
WaltWiz1901 WaltWiz1901 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SillyG View Post
There is no such thing as 24fps DVDs. DVD specs only support 25fps and 29.976fps. A very small number of players may be able to simulate 24fps for DVDs, but it is just that, a simulation.

DVD supports the following resolutions:

PAL: 25fps (50i)
720 576 pixels
704 576 pixels
352 576 pixels
352 288 pixels (also supported at MPEG-1 for VCD backwards compatibility)

NTSC: 29.976fps (60i)
720 480 pixels
704 480 pixels
352 480 pixels
352 240 pixels (also supported at MPEG-1 for VCD backwards compatibility)

Only Blu-rays support native 23.976fps and also 24fps. Blu-ray also supports 59.94fps and 50fps at 720p, but 720p is only rarely used.
Not completely true.

As David pointed out, most NTSC DVDs use pulldown flags to store 23.976/24 frame-per-second material at that frame rate on disc. Most players will recognize these flags and play progressively-encoded material at 29.976/30 frames per second, but more recent players can bypass them and play said material at 24fps.
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Old 02-20-2020, 05:55 PM   #8
oddbox83 oddbox83 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
I still don't like how players do the 24p output from DVDs though David, it still seems a bit choppy on 4K players like the Panny and the OPPO whereas the reverse 3:2 pulldown on my Sony telly is excellente.
My Oppo will do 24p automatically for DVDs encoded 24p with pulldown flags. At least as far as I'm aware.

The problematic setting is forcing 24p playback on titles hard-encoded as 60i. We've discussed this before and agreed it barely ever makes anything but a mangled mess.
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