Any rumors about Buffy the Vampire Slayer show coming out on Blu-ray?

[NL197]

I was prepared to re-purchase seasons 2 through 4 of ANGEL if the recaps were intact on iTunes like seasons 1 and 5 but since they were the same as the US DVDs, I didn't bother. It always bothered me, having watched it when it was actually on TV to then get the DVDs throughout 2003 and 2004 and have those scenes missing with the recaps.

[CinemaScope]

I think to stand any chance of a Blu-ray release, an old TV show has to have something of a cult following, like The Twilight Zone or the 60's Batman, & I think Buffy easily qualifies there (& I hope, Angel)...& come on Warner, get working on, The Man From UNCLE.

[theprestige85]

Originally Posted by Nico Darko

Don't forget Once More with Feeling, that one should look gorgeous in HD, with the colors and everything. And that's the one episode meant to be seen in widescreen.

Meh...I wanted to like that episode. I guess I admire it for it's ambition and the like, plus it brought a lot of people's attention to Buffy at the time (had 60 and over people banging on about it on the street!). However, I am not a musical bloke so it was always going to be an uphill struggle for it to be a top episode for me.

You are right though, it should look superb in HD.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by NL197

That's what angered me the most (along with many, many fans I'm sure) about the US DVD sets for both shows. ANGEL fared worse than Buffy simply because in at least two cases, cutting off the recaps meant they cut into the episode, making it incomplete:

I like recaps (in general, not just Buffy) because they often use alternate angles and takes compared what was actually in the broadcast episode, and it was a shame that Fox had that policy of cutting them off. Thankfully this sort of thing is happening less and less, and I don't see why they can't do what CBS does with their 'episodic promos': present an option to play the episode with or without it, that way everyone's happy.

Found this brief mention of Buffy's OAR by Joss Whedon himself, interviewed last year (July 24, 2013)

http://www.nerdist.com/2013/07/joss-...nd-avengers-2/

It should be plainly, clearly, and blatantly obvious by now that Whedon simply does not want Buffy to be seen in anything but 4:3 (aside from OMWF, natch). But, like I said, that genie's out of the bottle and for some countries the 16:9 is all they've ever known, so Fox aren't going to go back now. If it's 16:9 only then I'll still be buying it, I'm not gonna cut off my nose to spite my face. But I'd be all over a 4:3 Blu-ray in a heartbeat. I still think Nico had the best idea: Angel in 16:9, Buffy in 4:3.

Originally Posted by theprestige85

Meh...I wanted to like that episode. I guess I admire it for it's ambition and the like, plus it brought a lot of people's attention to Buffy at the time (had 60 and over people banging on about it on the street!). However, I am not a musical bloke so it was always going to be an uphill struggle for it to be a top episode for me.

You are right though, it should look superb in HD.

Some of the songs are a bit cringeworthy, but I LOVE 'Under Your Spell'.

[Lava_Lander]

As long as they restore the series recap to the opening of "The Gift," I'll be happy.

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It should be plainly, clearly, and blatantly obvious by now that Whedon simply does not want Buffy to be seen in anything but 4:3 (aside from OMWF, natch). But, like I said, that genie's out of the bottle and for some countries the 16:9 is all they've ever known, so Fox aren't going to go back now. If it's 16:9 only then I'll still be buying it, I'm not gonna cut off my nose to spite my face. But I'd be all over a 4:3 Blu-ray in a heartbeat. I still think Nico had the best idea: Angel in 16:9, Buffy in 4:3.

With a big enough fan petition, one supported by Whedon, I think Fox would quite easily go 4:3 in territories that were previously 16:9. Maybe stick a TNG style video essay (narrated by Whedon!) on the first season to demonstrate how awful the show looks both cropped and opened up.

We go on and on about how people fetishise widescreen, but the TNG sets have presumably sold very well. Certainly I've not heard anyone being upset about them not being 16:9.

As for me, I'll accept the Blu-rays in 16:9 because I can just crop them all like I do the DVDs. But if the pre-Super35 Buffy episodes are 16:9 on the Blu-rays (i.e. cropped), Fox can go f*** themselves.

[samukas]

I'm one of the few "bad seeds" that's hoping for Buffy opened up in widescreen.

That being said, if Fox S1 is released for home video like the few screenshots we've seen... Yeah, I'll keep watching that on DVD as well, even if the quality sucks!!!

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by samukas

I'm one of the few "bad seeds" that's hoping for Buffy opened up in widescreen.

Out of interest, what advantage do you feel you get out of seeing it in widescreen?

[samukas]

Well, this could easily be a long-winded answer... I'll try to make it somewhat short

To me, I guess it all comes down to how I've always seen the show and what emotionally feels "right".
I didn't watch Buffy on TV, my country was very much behind compared to other countries, so I imported the UK DVD releases as soon as they came out.

Of course my viewing habits / perception of the show was a bit influenced, I guess, due to the fact that I wasn't waiting 1 week to watch the next episode, but I was waiting pretty much a year to get the next season.

Also, of course, starting with season 4, Buffy for me had "switched" to 16:9.
Keep in mind that at the time, I had a 4:3 CRT set and I was watching it letterboxed, so it was not a case of "it finally fills up my screen"!

The point is... to me, it never felt wrong or un-natural. That's how my first and most viewings of the series have been.
On my first viewing of each episode I was very much concentrated on the plot to notice the goofs. I guess the TV's overscan might have helped with a few... Also, I was 14/15 years old at the time and maybe not very aware!
I remember:
- The occasional rounded black corners on campus shots for Buffy season 4
- I remember spotting one as well in "Checkpoint".
- I have no idea how I missed the random guy sitting in Willow's dorm room (it's pretty obvious!!!)

The problem for me is... I can't "unsee" what I've seen.
I have no problem admitting that I've been corrupted by the widescreen versions. Of course, it goes both ways.

- IF Fox releases the show in 16:9, I'll be really pleased! But even if said flubs/goofs/mistakes/whatever are corrected... I can't forget them. I'll still know what was there, I'll still giggle because a strange man is in Willow's room, because I remember seeing Xander's underwear or a blue screen in one scene.
- If Fox releases the show in 4:3, I feel like I'll be constantly thinking and missing the left and the right side of the picture. It feels cramped. Psychologically, it feels like watching a Pan-and-Scan version, even though I know that's not the case. I can't even imagine watching in 4:3, for example, The Gift or Chosen!!!... I wish I could, I know that it's the Intended Aspect Ratio, but I'll always remember seeing it otherwise (I'm trying not to use the word "cinematic", by the way).

Regarding seasons 2 and 3, I'm curious to see them in widescreen. I'm not sure if I'll like to see them that way, to be honest (again, it's not how I remember seeing them), but I guess I'm curious about it.

The same way I'm curious about other things with this remaster:
- Will they re-do the Opening Credits? If they go the cheap route and just upscale the whole sequence, it won't look good.
- Will they keep the original font? For X-Files they didn't. I never watched X-Files, so I wouldn't know. For Buffy, I'd definitely notice!
- Will they re-do,re-render or just upscale the SFX? What would be more jarring? New/Unfamiliar SFX or a poor SD shot in the middle of a sequence?

Either way, broadcast/VOD or home video releases won't be able to please everyone, that's for sure.

Also, I don't really understand people rooting for Angel in 16:9 for seasons 1&2 and Buffy in 4:3, when obviously they were filmed/framed under the same conditions, so it doesn't make sense to me.

[simonynwa]

Funny thing is if you look at the screenshots for the Season 1 that have been shown on here and you didn't know if it was cropped or opened up, there is no obvious difference in the problems with the composition than the Season 4-7 shots (i.e. they are both equally problematic - dead space at the sides). They have clearly not just cropped top to bottom equally.

That's why Im surprised people argue that they will not accept a 16:9 release of 1-3 but will accept one of 4-7. It's really only because you know it is opened up rather than cropped than a judgment on the composition itself. But I supposed if you are used to it...

Whedon's comment from 2013 I hadn't read before. Let's hope Fox show him the respect he deserves like they do to Cameron or Lucas.

I think what people are trying to say (Im sure I will be corrected if Im wrong ) when they refer to the idea it becomes more "cinematic" is that it gives the feel of a more epic scope than the intimate 4x3 frame. I don't like the 16x9 shots, but I can see how the establishing shots of outdoor areas of particular locations (Sunnydale University, the library, the Initiative etc) allows you to see more and may give the impression of a more epic feel. When you think of 4-7, the show was dealing with Buffy going out into the wider world in a sense having left high school so I suppose there is some sort of logic to this. Trouble is these shots are few and far between and Buffy was always more intimate as a show than say Angel.

Conversely, apart from the obvious problems they cause to the composition, I find the 16x9 shots often emphasise more of the setting and in particular the lack of background action or setting, be it props/set dressing or extras/ whereas the 4x3 shots help to mask this and create a greater focus on the characters in the shot.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by samukas

Also, I don't really understand people rooting for Angel in 16:9 for seasons 1&2 and Buffy in 4:3, when obviously they were filmed/framed under the same conditions, so it doesn't make sense to me.

As previously mentioned, the look of Angel really lends itself to the wider ratio, and in the case of S2 I do believe that Whedon okayed the 16:9, errors and all, because it was intended to be the more 'cinematic' of the two shows from the beginning. Have a look at the last two eps of S2 ("Numfar! Do the dance of joy!" ) and they really do look 'wide', for want of a better word. There's very little dead space throughout, and even in things like over-the-shoulder shots both characters fill the 16:9 image, unlike on widescreen Buffy where the person who's facing camera is parked in the middle of the frame with loads of space to the side of them.

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

We go on and on about how people fetishise widescreen, but the TNG sets have presumably sold very well. Certainly I've not heard anyone being upset about them not being 16:9.

Funny you should say that, I was reading a thread on digitalspy about amazon returns and people started talking about TNG and one dude said (and I quote) "The transfer keeps the original 1.33:1 ratio, unless you stretch the image the black bars down each side will drive you crazy after a while".

It's only one person, granted, but the average joe isn't as clued up as the average Armchair Expert™ on the internets. People, especially younger folk, are conditioned to expect bars across top and bottom (although some people still moan about that!) but bars at the sides are a no-no. And given that an entire generation has grown up with 16:9 Buffy outside of the US, it'll be very difficult for Fox to deny it from them in HD.

[samukas]

Originally Posted by simonynwa

Funny thing is if you look at the screenshots for the Season 1 that have been shown on here and you didn't know if it was cropped or opened up, there is no obvious difference in the problems with the composition than the Season 4-7 shots (i.e. they are both equally problematic - dead space at the sides). They have clearly not just cropped top to bottom equally.

The "dead space" on the sides for these season 1 screenshots is almost minimal... The cropped portion feels huge, and the framing seems too much "in your face".
I for one noticed it immediately while watching the trailer for the first time, I even thought they simply had chopped the 4:3 frame without adding anything to the sides.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

and in the case of S2 I do believe that Whedon okayed the 16:9, errors and all

Maybe... I haven't read anything so far that let me to interpret that, though.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by samukas

Maybe... I haven't read anything so far that let me to interpret that, though.

He's said nothing on the subject AFAIK. But it's a simple deduction: Whedon nixed widescreen Buffy on US DVD, yet Angel S2 - which was concurrent with the Buffy DVDs and was released by the same studio - was 16:9, so surely Whedon must've okayed that one? (And this is the same show that went all out with proper 16:9 framing for its very next season. Incidentally I remember when some channel or another showed S3 in 4:3 and it was horrible, people were literally hanging half out of the frame most of the time.)

It's not proof, granted. But it's what my gut and my eyes are telling me. Buffy SHOULD be in 4:3, there's no doubt, yet with Angel S1 and (especially) S2, I'm not so sure.

[EddieLarkin]

Don't the extreme goofs of Season 1 and 2 make you more sure? As I said before, even if an argument can be made that the style of Angel lends itself more to widescreen, the goofs surely prove that it is merely coincidence? Why would a director/DP frame a shot and actually give consideration to the widescreen framing (as you seem to be suggesting), but then pay no attention whatsoever to the massive goof staring him in the face?

As for Angel S2 going out in widescreen, I think it's much less of a leap to believe it was simply a mistake, as opposed to Whedon okaying it despite the obvious goofs

[simonynwa]

Aside from the unintended person in the side of the frame. Id say the Season 4 one here actually looks worse than the Season 1 shot.

Not necessarily fair to compare perhaps but the cropping of the frameand slightly opening of the frame in Season 1 has created a similar error in both even if you ignore the unintentional figure,

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

As for Angel S2 going out in widescreen, I think it's much less of a leap to believe it was simply a mistake, as opposed to Whedon okaying it despite the obvious goofs

A mistake on Whedon's part that is, as he did indeed apparently OK S2 in widescreen:

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Angel/629

Hmmm. Season 2 was broadcast in 4x3, not 16x9. That started with Season 3. And it has the goofs. I'm off to take a look at the composition of my Season 2 set, and see what I think.

[EddieLarkin]

Sorry Geoff, but I don't know what you're talking about. I chose a random episode from Angel S2 (episode 6) and composition wise it has a lot more in common with Buffy than it does with S3 of Angel. Indeed, it has nothing in common with the latter. As soon as you crop S3 to 4x3 it is immediate that something is wrong. This episode of S2 works absolutely fine in 4x3, and has all the usual hallmarks. When the camera moves, it always keeps people within the 4x3 area, and there is oodles of space on the side. It just looks like same old same old:








For now, I stand by my claim that Whedon made a mistake when saying Angel started shooting widescreen with S2.

[NL197]

When season 2 was released, DVDTalk did a wonderful review and analysis of the wider framing, even going as far as including about 8 or 9 random shots in both 16:9 and cropped to 4:3 for a direct comparison.

Trouble is 11 years later, that review is void of any images now because they are all broken URLs, but the (still insightful) words remain.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/7211/angel-season-two/

There are even quotes in the review from ANGEL exec Tim Minear (who was more involved with the day-to-day decision-making than Whedon was) about the wider framing.

Here's that 4:3 scene transition from season 2, episode 18, "Dead End":

[NL197]

Another easy example is the shape of the main title sequence:


Season 1


Season 2


Season 3 - used the same shot from "City Of", but there's a black border on it...guess they didn't have access to the wider shot from that episode when making this wider title sequence.

[theprestige85]

Originally Posted by simonynwa

Funny thing is if you look at the screenshots for the Season 1 that have been shown on here and you didn't know if it was cropped or opened up, there is no obvious difference in the problems with the composition than the Season 4-7 shots (i.e. they are both equally problematic - dead space at the sides). They have clearly not just cropped top to bottom equally.

That's why Im surprised people argue that they will not accept a 16:9 release of 1-3 but will accept one of 4-7. It's really only because you know it is opened up rather than cropped than a judgment on the composition itself. But I supposed if you are used to it...

Whedon's comment from 2013 I hadn't read before. Let's hope Fox show him the respect he deserves like they do to Cameron or Lucas.

I think what people are trying to say (Im sure I will be corrected if Im wrong ) when they refer to the idea it becomes more "cinematic" is that it gives the feel of a more epic scope than the intimate 4x3 frame. I don't like the 16x9 shots, but I can see how the establishing shots of outdoor areas of particular locations (Sunnydale University, the library, the Initiative etc) allows you to see more and may give the impression of a more epic feel. When you think of 4-7, the show was dealing with Buffy going out into the wider world in a sense having left high school so I suppose there is some sort of logic to this. Trouble is these shots are few and far between and Buffy was always more intimate as a show than say Angel.

Conversely, apart from the obvious problems they cause to the composition, I find the 16x9 shots often emphasise more of the setting and in particular the lack of background action or setting, be it props/set dressing or extras/ whereas the 4x3 shots help to mask this and create a greater focus on the characters in the shot.

Very good post.

Yeah, I guess that's more or less what I meant from the term 'cinematic'. Theres definitely a sense of scope to the show, especially in the establishing shots and action sequences. It's almost like the difference between watching The Dark Knight at a normal screening vs watching it at the IMAX...except The Dark Knight was intended to be seen at the IMAX more so than your average local cinema. Some shots work well in the widescreen, even if they aren't meant to, but yeah, the compositions are quite off, especially in some of the pics that was posted from Angel season 2 (though it's making me want to put my season 2 DVDs back in, that was a really good season up until those dodgy Pylea episodes!!!!)

Ultimately, the best thing to do would just be to have access to both versions.