Any rumors about Buffy the Vampire Slayer show coming out on Blu-ray?

[theprestige85]

Heres a quick email I just sent to them. I should have thought it out more but I have quite a lot on my plate and just wanted to get it done before I lost the urge. I think it's probably too similar to the first email I sent them and may appear repetitive to them. Probably should have spoken more about the concerns for the dusting effects, but, oh well.

Dear sir/madam,

I previously sent you an email regarding the issues that I (and MANY others on blu ray forums.com) had regarding the Buffy HD remastered broadcasts. If you remember, I highlighted dissatisfaction with the heavy use of DNR applied to the show, the completely different colour timing that changed the feel of it, the excessive brightness/contrast that turned darker scenes in overly lit ones and, of course, the cropping effects of your decision to give it a 'widescreen' presentation.

Now, since season 2 has ben airing on Pivot, it is only the colour timing that appears to have been improved so far. And perhaps theres less cropping too. The DNR is still a big issue and the contrast could do with toning down, but so far, season 2 is definitely looking better than season 1 in HD.

However, a new issue has come to arise. We've noticed that you have completely redone the vampire dusting effects. This is something we had not anticipated due to the cost of having to redo special effects. And while we appreciate the effort of going to such lengths, we are very dissatisfied with the results. The dusting doesn't appear to be dusting at all - it resembles a cloud of smoke combined with water. It really is a jarring effect, much more so than if you just upscaled the effects, which would be preferable to that.

If/when you do release this on blu ray, I really hope that these issue will be fixed.

Perhaps the broadcasted HD version is meant to be different to the blu ray?? I would hope so, as this show's fan base has been VERY vocal about the need for improvements. Due to the internet and increased technology, we are living in an age where fans are very educated about the process of restoration and remastering, and will immediately know the difference between a rushed high definition remaster and one that's been meticulously taken care of to ensure the best possible results.

Now, if you are planning on releasing this show on blu ray without the DNR, with the appropriate colour timing and brightness and with the original aspect ratio (as preferred by Whedon himself, reportedly), then please ignore this message and know that you'll see a lot of customers ready to pay whatever they need to watch this on blu ray. If you are planning to just slap on the broadcasted version onto a disc then it's unlikely you'll have many sales.

I urge you to do the right thing by this show if you are not already doing so.

Yours sincerely,

[theprestige85]

Originally Posted by rewak

There comes a point where you're just going to have to accept compromise, the fact they're actually re-rendering these SFX shots is pretty commendable in and of itself, the standard fare would be to just upscale those shots and then you'd all ***** about that too.

No, you should NEVER compromise, especially when it comes to quality. We're the ones who will be spending hard earned cash on this so we deserve to have our say.

If they'd just upscaled the effects nobody would have been surprised. The upscaled effects of Firefly don't appear to be bad and nobody has been complaining about that.

The issue is that the new effect results resemble very little of what the original effect was. It hasn't improved on it and it's probably a lot more jarring than it would have been if they'd just upscaled it.

[rewak]

Look, in this instance you have 2 choices. Upscaling the effects, and we've all seen just how pretty upscaled footage has looked in this, or re-rendering them from scratch. You have to compromise something, there is no option of retaining the original quality so you need to make a choice in this instance. The re-framing and the color scheme, those things are worth complaining about because those are choices where a choice was made where it was unecessary.

[#Darren]

Originally Posted by rewak

There comes a point where you're just going to have to accept compromise, the fact they're actually re-rendering these SFX shots is pretty commendable in and of itself, the standard fare would be to just upscale those shots and then you'd all ***** about that too.

Actually, No. If you read this thread you will see that most have said they would be happy with upscaled SD.

[#Darren]

I watched my Firefly BD with "upscaled" SFX on a 100 inch screen and had NO PROBLEMS with it.

I would much rather this with Buffy as well (if the only other option is second rate re-workings).

BTW I watched the later seasons of Buffy in 16x9 so that is what I am "used to," yet somehow I would prefer OAR for the BD - so not everyone who saw it in 16x9 will say no to an OAR release...

[Nico Darko]

Originally Posted by rewak

Look, in this instance you have 2 choices. Upscaling the effects, and we've all seen just how pretty upscaled footage has looked in this, or re-rendering them from scratch. You have to compromise something, there is no option of retaining the original quality so you need to make a choice in this instance.

I see the point you're trying to make, and I'm willing to compromise on some things (decent upscaled effects was one of them). But they are clearly not re-rendering the original effect, they are ignoring it (even the timing if off). You can't tell me that it would have cost more money to be closer to the original dusting.

I can compromise if I understand their excuse (it's too expensive, widescreen will sell better... etc). But seeing that they redid the dusting effects and chose not to match the original, when it would have been just as easy to re-render a similar effect ! That I don't understand, and won't accept.

[samukas]

Originally Posted by #Darren

Actually, No. If you read this thread you will see that most have said they would be happy with upscaled SD.

Originally Posted by #Darren

I watched my Firefly BD with "upscaled" SFX on a 100 inch screen and had NO PROBLEMS with it.
I would much rather this with Buffy as well (if the only other option is second rate re-workings).

I don't think they would look good at all... Weren't they rendered interlaced at 480i60? Grrr, it would be very very jarring. Just look at the X-Files upscale!
Firefly's renders are a bit more recent and were obviously better (same with Angel S5, I think)... apart from one particular CGI or stock footage aerial shot that always looked horrible to me on Firefly.

[Reddkryten]

A lot of people have commented on the cropping being inconsistent, one shot in a scene being opened up, while others have been cropped. A lot of people have mentioned light stands and crew in shot as the reason. I just want to throw another idea out there. Original lens choice.

It's been awhile since I used a 16mm camera, but from what I remember, certain lenses would have vignetting, where the edges are darker than the centre. A few pages back someone posted a video of Star Trek TNG's remastering, in the background there was a monitor showing the entire frame and the edges were noticablly darker.

So it could be that some shots can be opened up, while vignetting prevents this happening with others? Just an idea.

Originally Posted by Nico Darko

Made a gif of the new dusting, and yeah, bad :

Okay it's been a long time since I watched this one, but where is the stake? She stakes him, but then she's in a punching pose without a stake? This has nothing to do with the remaster, but it looks like a goof I missed before.

[GoldMotel]

Originally Posted by Reddkryten

Okay it's been a long time since I watched this one, but where is the stake? She stakes him, but then she's in a punching pose without a stake? This has nothing to do with the remaster, but it looks like a goof I missed before.

Maybe the stake disintegrated? But I agree with others about the dusting effects. The HD ones definitely don't look that great. I can't even imagine what they are going to do with the staking that have skeletal features involved.

[lstar337]

Originally Posted by Reddkryten

Okay it's been a long time since I watched this one, but where is the stake? She stakes him, but then she's in a punching pose without a stake? This has nothing to do with the remaster, but it looks like a goof I missed before.

It's a goof, I have seen it mentioned a few times before.

[Reddkryten]

Originally Posted by lstar337

It's a goof, I have seen it mentioned a few times before.

Ah thanks. It's weird, I'm usually great at spotting goofs, but missed this one for years.

Having a gif constantly looping shines a harsh light on any errors

[Buffdale]

I just watched the episodes (not fully) on my Full HD TV. It has nothing to do with what I see on my computer. Contrast is boosted, and the black is... black ! I see fewer things in the Bangel's scene of the first episode (in the alley), but at least it's more realistic !

I can confirm that the first episode was the worse for the DNR !

[simonynwa]

Originally Posted by slainery

And to close the chapter once and for all on this (as far as I'm concerned):

Art is subjective by nature and its value is as much in the eye of the artist as it is in the eye of the beholder. Whedon & co are absolutely free to say what they want (entitled to, actually), but it doesn't mean I should follow it blindly and disregard what I prefer. I mean, we're in 2014 and I still won't buy into

[Show spoiler]Spuffy and Spike's redemption post Seeing Red

even though the TPTB pushed it.

As for as the wishes of the creator go and how it is intended to be seen, I only have two words:

[Show spoiler]STAR

[Show spoiler]WARS

.

Absolutely right you are entitled to disregard what Whedon prefers, don't think anyone disputes that - Fox IMO should not be so entitled to disregard Whedon and should respect the creator's wishes. Im sure however they won't.

And as a massive fan of the original Star Wars films too, that is a completely different situation, but as it stands the creator's vision is out there as it should be. The argument is over whether his original vision should be out there too (and it should).

[simonynwa]

Originally Posted by goldnnck

jesus stop that already, there are already a number of dvd sets and whatnot containing the 4:3 versions. if u don't like 16:9 just go watch those dvds thanks.

it's not disrespectful to release a widescreen version of buffy. yes joss whedon intended it to be shown in 4:3 and it's been like that for the last 17 YEARS! it's time for some change if u ask me.

I dont see anything wrong with being able to see a bit more of what was meant to be seen, i personally find that the best bonus feature ever! if there needs to be cropping done, i'm totally fine with that cos, AGAIN, we already have so many dvd sets that show buffy 'the way it was meant to be seen'.

anyway if ur not happy with that, just think about how buffy was also never meant to be seen in HD, it was meant to be seen in standard def, so much that the cgi were rendered in SD and composed for that definition. so stop that weak argument already please.

jesus stop that already, there are already a number of dvd sets and whatnot containing the 16:9 versions. if u don't like 4:3 just go watch those dvds thanks.

it's IS disrespectful to release a widescreen version of buffy. yes joss whedon intended it to be shown in 4:3 and it's been like that for the last 17 YEARS!

It was meant to be seen in standard def ?? How exactly do you compose for standard def when I'm sure you are aware just from this thread it was filmed in 16mm and 35mm? The intent of the effects was to blend in with the action to make it believable surely, not to simply just be in SD for the sake of it but because it was the most cost effective way at the time. If you are going to increase the resolution, then to match this same intent means raising the effects resolution too. Actually I would be happy with upscaled effects if necessary but Im equally ok with rendering HD effects to match the original shots as closely as possible to recreate the intention of the filmmakers. It's not like someone can't ask them.

[EV1L]

Originally Posted by Nico Darko

Made a gif of the new dusting, and yeah, bad :

Oh my... what the hell they are doing.There are no more ashes.
I don't get it, why invest money in remastering and then doing everything half baked like this.

[Panemlights]

Originally Posted by simonynwa

jesus stop that already, there are already a number of dvd sets and whatnot containing the 16:9 versions. if u don't like 4:3 just go watch those dvds thanks.

Not for seasons 1-3

[simonynwa]

Originally Posted by Panemlights

Not for seasons 1-3

I'll give you that one but hey it seems that there doing it now

[goldnnck]

whenever they used buffy doubles, i'm pretty sure they hoped the lack of detail in SD would hide the fact that it wasn't SMG doing all those nifty tricks. so yes, i'm pretty sure they meant buffy to be seen in SD.

and for the record, i don't mind it being released in 4:3. i am perfectly fine with my slayer collection and love it very much. i'm just simply not oppossed to change, and i think MANY people would LOVE to have buffy in 16:9 in HD. i just dont understand the people who oppose that. like, if you dont like it dont watch it, stick to the current dvds, but don't let this project halt just bc u think its disrespectful when it's not.

[simonynwa]

See if you read the comments, its not about it just being disrespectful, its about the fact that ultimately the OAR version will become secondary to the modified version if not completely replaced and to me that's not acceptable. That is more than disrespect to the artist/filmmakers.

If I could be sure that an OAR version would be released and would be the master version going forward, by all means bring on as many modified AR versions as they want, widescreen 16:9, 2:35:1 if they really want. Just like you, I want an HD version and on a disc but in 4x3. I think quite a few would love that too including those pro 16:9.

Its funny the predominant POV I hear from those wanting widescreen is that they would accept a 4x3 version and buy it. Would OAR purists ? Difficult one to be honest as supporting disc releases at the moment is necessary to convince studios that disc releases are still worthwhile and stop this ever moving shift to digital downloads and streaming. I don't think I would simply on principle, not because I'm just trying to be spiteful about it or stopping my own enjoyment, but I have seen the show many times and don't absolutely feel the need to own it again if its not done right.

Now if they tried to make a widescreen version of DS9, Id be far more torn as I really want that show yet don't want a modified OAR. There is a real problem with disc releases right now in that there is a far more prevalent issue of whether in fact any of these shows are actually going to be released on disc at all, widescreen or not. Even shows that are current and have had initial Bluray releases are now being released DVD only and that is a real concern.

This whole discussion could turn out to be moot with the exception of downloads

[willbfree]

Originally Posted by simonynwa

jesus stop that already, there are already a number of dvd sets and whatnot containing the 16:9 versions. if u don't like 4:3 just go watch those dvds thanks.

No, because the PAL dvds have the PAL speed-up, making everyone sound a bit like Minnie Mouse. The iTunes versions don't have PAL speed-up but they're not remastered...