Friday the 13th: The Complete Collection (WB)

[GeoffOliver]

Well, the series never exactly took itself seriously, and A New Beginning was already a jump-the-shark film in the worst way. Doing a more self-aware film like Jason Lives was a logical next step. Films 2-4 had already exhausted the "Jason kills a bunch of camp counselors" premise to hell and back (and 2 and 3 are basically the same movie, with the latter just more dumb and in 3D), so why not try to subvert it in a fun way? The New Blood had the right idea with a girl with superpowers, but didn't do much with it. The film is barely different from the first four films, with only an added subplot and climax with more special effects. Every film afterwords just found new ways to jump the shark.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by KubrickKurasawa

Yes for Crispin Glovers sick moves they played Back in Black on set but it was changed to a Lion song later. It's discussed in the DVD commentary. Watching it now Sync it up like Wizard of Oz and Dark Side of the Moon.

AC/DC - Back In Black (Official Music Video) - YouTube

That actually makes sense... those moves would work well dancing to that song.

[Matt89]

Originally Posted by GeoffOliver

Well, the series never exactly took itself seriously, and A New Beginning was already a jump-the-shark film in the worst way. Doing a more self-aware film like Jason Lives was a logical next step. Films 2-4 had already exhausted the "Jason kills a bunch of camp counselors" premise to hell and back (and 2 and 3 are basically the same movie, with the latter just more dumb and in 3D), so why not try to subvert it in a fun way? The New Blood had the right idea with a girl with superpowers, but didn't do much with it. The film is barely different from the first four films, with only an added subplot and climax with more special effects. Every film afterwords just found new ways to jump the shark.

Funny you say that, last time I marathoned the series a few years ago, my friends and I came to the conclusion that parts 1 and 2 are pretty much the exact same movie, you just swap out Mrs. Voorhees with Jason. It has a very similar tone, the setup is the same, Crazy Ralph serves the exact same purpose, people are killed off at the same pace, there's still that mystery aspect as to who the killer is (whereas the later sequels really gave Jason a lot of screen time), even the chase scene at the camp at the end is almost a carbon copy of the first film. Part 2 is basically a more polished version of part 1 before part 3 just took the series in a more ridiculous direction. However, I feel like parts 1-4 are quite similar tonally, whereas 5-8 have a very different vibe.

~Matt

[Mister B Gone]

my best to worst list

2
4
1
3
Remake
FvJ
5
6
7
8
9
10

[Pinot Grigio]

Originally Posted by GeoffOliver

Well, the series never exactly took itself seriously, and A New Beginning was already a jump-the-shark film in the worst way. Doing a more self-aware film like Jason Lives was a logical next step. Films 2-4 had already exhausted the "Jason kills a bunch of camp counselors" premise to hell and back (and 2 and 3 are basically the same movie, with the latter just more dumb and in 3D), so why not try to subvert it in a fun way? The New Blood had the right idea with a girl with superpowers, but didn't do much with it. The film is barely different from the first four films, with only an added subplot and climax with more special effects. Every film afterwords just found new ways to jump the shark.

Compared with 1, 2 and 4, they took themselves pretty seriously, especially when up against that joke Jason Lives. I don't see the fun in being pandered to and having my hand held in VI, and it lacks the mean streaks of before. Considering the first five worked so well, I feel the gimmick culture surrounding the latter series was an illogical conclusion, at least in the way they executed it. They're just progressively lame.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by Pinot Grigio

Compared with 1, 2 and 4, they took themselves pretty seriously, especially when up against that joke Jason Lives. I don't see the fun in being pandered to and having my hand held in VI, and it lacks the mean streaks of before. Considering the first five worked so well, I feel the gimmick culture surrounding the latter series was an illogical conclusion, at least in the way they executed it. They're just progressively lame.

I think GeoffOliver enunciated the reasons for the way the series evolved quite well. There are plenty of other film series, particularly horror films, where they simply re-tread the same thing over and over to the point of tedium. The humour in Jason Lives was a good way to freshen things up and Jason himself is still taken seriously and many of the kills are still quite innovative. You can always restrict yourself to watching the first four or five movies if those are all that you enjoy.

[notops]

Originally Posted by Post Prod

It's weird for me because I loved the Kane Hodder Jason's as a kid but have grown to find them annoying as I get older with each viewing. Why is jason suddenly jacked, when he's been rotting in a lake? Why does he moved so fluently, why is he heaving - he's not breathing ffs. It's just really over the top and jacks up the silly factor. That being said, the makeup in part 7 is amazing.

Agreed. I can't stand Hodder's portrayals of Jason. The charactar is imposing enough. The 'cockiness' Hodder brings to it makes Jason seem more like a douchebag to me than anything truly menacing.

[TravisPNW]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

I think GeoffOliver enunciated the reasons for the way the series evolved quite well. There are plenty of other film series, particularly horror films, where they simply re-tread the same thing over and over to the point of tedium. The humour in Jason Lives was a good way to freshen things up and Jason himself is still taken seriously and many of the kills are still quite innovative. You can always restrict yourself to watching the first four or five movies if those are all that you enjoy.

Yep...

[Show spoiler] Nikki's face imprint and Sheriff's backbreaker

are 2 that come to mind.

[Matt89]

Originally Posted by Pinot Grigio

It's a neutered spoof of the series, and why it is considered a fan favorite will elude me forever.

I think V is a pretty fitting end to the films with that downer of a surprise ending. Leave it up to the viewer what happens. But no. Now we have space robot Jason in the canon.

It's considered a fan favourite because it was self-reflexive, it poked fun at itself and other films in the genre. It was fun and breathed new life into the series after the mess that was part 5. Jason Lives is probably the smartest Friday movie but coming from someone who thought A New Beginning was somehow a fitting ending to the series I don't really know what to tell you.

And you're blaming Part 6, a film produced by Paramount, for Jason X, a film that was made by New Line? That doesn't even make any sense. And Jason X was one of the more fun sequels. If anything, you can blame Part 5 for the nevereding sequels, as part 4, 'The Final Chapter' was supposed to be the end of the series (I mean clearly).

~Matt

[rocknblues81]

Originally Posted by DarknessBDJM

I think part VI (as much as I love it) would be much better with a more classic Harry Manfredini soundtrack.
The one in as it is (still by Manfredini) makes the movie feel more comical and less serious. With a more part I-V (preferably I-II) sounding soundtrack it wouldn't enhance the comedic elements and keep a general mood even with them in place (like Return of the Living Dead, The Evil Dead, and Night of the Demons do, despite the comedic elements in them).
I'd kill a hobo for part VI with an alternate part I-II sounding soundtrack in place.

I disagree... I love Cooper’s countributions. I don’t think Jason Lives needed another redundant score.

[Pinot Grigio]

Originally Posted by Matt89

It's considered a fan favourite because it was self-reflexive, it poked fun at itself and other films in the genre. It was fun and breathed new life into the series after the mess that was part 5. Jason Lives is probably the smartest Friday movie but coming from someone who thought A New Beginning was somehow a fitting ending to the series I don't really know what to tell you.

And you're blaming Part 6, a film produced by Paramount, for Jason X, a film that was made by New Line? That doesn't even make any sense. And Jason X was one of the more fun sequels. If anything, you can blame Part 5 for the nevereding sequels, as part 4, 'The Final Chapter' was supposed to be the end of the series (I mean clearly).

~Matt

I blame zombie Jason for eventual space, yes. That's not a stretch. If you like Jason Lives, fine, but Jason isn't a threat, and Jason X is easily the candidate for most boring and monotonous entry. I get that people want to think outside the box as the series progresses, but I can easily blame the supernatural zombie introduced here for what came after, not the supposed mess of ANB because people wanted a safer entry. ANB is a fitting end because it goes full circle with the cycle of the curse of Crystal Lake continuing in Tommy, and it did so while keeping the tone of the previous films, simultaneously doing something new with expectations.

[Pinot Grigio]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

I think GeoffOliver enunciated the reasons for the way the series evolved quite well. There are plenty of other film series, particularly horror films, where they simply re-tread the same thing over and over to the point of tedium. The humour in Jason Lives was a good way to freshen things up and Jason himself is still taken seriously and many of the kills are still quite innovative. You can always restrict yourself to watching the first four or five movies if those are all that you enjoy.

Yeah, the kills are innovative, I just don't feel they packed much punch. I do understand what you're saying with the need to breathe new life into it to save their backs, from a production standpoint I agree with you. I just feel in regards to how the films play out, this is where the franchise derailed. I should clarify, I agree with your rundown, but I personally have a hard time wrapping myself around the way Jason Lives carries itself and thus the fate of the films afterward.

[GeoffOliver]

Jason Lives was basically the first movie that established Jason as the main character of the franchise. Yeah, Tommy Jarvis and Megan were technically the protagonists, but the movie is unabashedly about Jason, and future sequels embrace that to a fuller extent, for better or worse. In the first four films, he was a badass, but mostly a faceless killer, and not that distinguishable from Halloween's Michael Myers. The entire franchise was campy, but Jason Lives seemed to be the first one that knew it was campy, and embraced it in a smart way. Compare that to A New Beginning, where the writers must have thought they could just LET IT become stupid and ridiculous by putting in as little effort as possible.

And yeah, 1 and 2 are very similar, but with different killers, but Part 2 was still a well-made film with decent characters (relatively for the genre), a badass final girl, and some attempt at creating genuine dread and suspense. Part 3 was basically the same, but lazier, dumber, and, like A New Beginning, didn't seem to put in as much effort into the writing because they probably didn't think they needed to. Part 4 technically followed the same formula, but it had more effort put into the characters, the kills, and the atmosphere. Having a child protagonist probably helped distinguish it too.

Part 1 on paper is about as generic of a slasher movie as it gets, but it's elevated by a fantastic score, excellent cinematography, decent characters, and a nice sense of atmosphere, suspense, dread, and tension.

[Pinot Grigio]

Originally Posted by GeoffOliver

Jason Lives was basically the first movie that established Jason as the main character

Oh. That may be the first time anyone has actually said something that helped me to see why Jason Lives is so popular. It also explains why I don't like it. The focus on the killer being someone to root for and center around never appealed to me. But that makes perfect sense. Thank you Geoff.

[Matt89]

Originally Posted by GeoffOliver

Jason Lives was basically the first movie that established Jason as the main character of the franchise. Yeah, Tommy Jarvis and Megan were technically the protagonists, but the movie is unabashedly about Jason, and future sequels embrace that to a fuller extent, for better or worse. In the first four films, he was a badass, but mostly a faceless killer, and not that distinguishable from Halloween's Michael Myers. The entire franchise was campy, but Jason Lives seemed to be the first one that knew it was campy, and embraced it in a smart way. Compare that to A New Beginning, where the writers must have thought they could just LET IT become stupid and ridiculous by putting in as little effort as possible.

And yeah, 1 and 2 are very similar, but with different killers, but Part 2 was still a well-made film with decent characters (relatively for the genre), a badass final girl, and some attempt at creating genuine dread and suspense. Part 3 was basically the same, but lazier, dumber, and, like A New Beginning, didn't seem to put in as much effort into the writing because they probably didn't think they needed to. Part 4 technically followed the same formula, but it had more effort put into the characters, the kills, and the atmosphere. Having a child protagonist probably helped distinguish it too.

Part 1 on paper is about as generic of a slasher movie as it gets, but it's elevated by a fantastic score, excellent cinematography, decent characters, and a nice sense of atmosphere, suspense, dread, and tension.

Yes to all of this.

~Matt

[KubrickKurasawa]

Originally Posted by Ray Jackson

[/SPOILER]

You’ve done a very admirable job of encapsulating that which i most dislike about the millennial generation.

...so easily satiated by technological simulacra of reality.

The millenial Freddy VS Jason made the best use of fire stunts.

It's also better quality than any or all of the stunts CGI that are found in 7,8, 9, or X with Kane Hodder.

They didn't need Kane Hodder. It killed at the Box Office. Put that in your millennial box.

Propane Blast Dual Freddy & Jason stuntman launch.

Freddy vs. Jason (9/10) Movie CLIP - Go to Hell! (2003) HD - YouTube

Final Girl. Welcome to my world ending.

Freddy vs. Jason (10/10) Movie CLIP - Welcome to My World (2003) HD - YouTube

Cornfield party kills.

Freddy vs. Jason (3/10) Movie CLIP - Jason Crashes the Party (2003) HD - YouTube

[TripleHBK]

Originally Posted by KubrickKurasawa

The millenial Freddy VS Jason made the best use of fire stunts.

It's also better quality than any or all of the stunts CGI that are found in 7,8, 9, or X with Kane Hodder.

Gee I wonder why...

Freddy vs Jason Budget -- $25 Million

Jason X Budget -- $14 Million
Jason Goes to Hell Budget -- $2.5 Million
Friday the 13th Part 8 Budget -- $8 Million
Friday the 13th Part 7 Budget -- $7 Million

You mean to tell me that a film that had between 2x - 10x the budget had better effects? Who ever would have predicted such a thing?

I'll take the practical effects found in 1-X any day of the week over almost anything found in the 2000's.

[buck135]

Originally Posted by GeoffOliver

Part 1 on paper is about as generic of a slasher movie as it gets, but it's elevated by a fantastic score, excellent cinematography, decent characters, and a nice sense of atmosphere, suspense, dread, and tension.

Excellent points, however in my opinion, I find Harry Manfredini's scores to be distracting. I know I'm in the minority with that thought, but it's always a problem I've had with the series.

[GeoffOliver]

I don't mind film scores that draw attention to themselves, as long as they enhance the material. Very few today are like that. Most make an effort to not be noticed at all. Henry Manfredini's F13 score borrowed a lot from Psycho, but in the best way, and at least it was memorable while complimenting the material well. If anything, the score was better than the films deserved.

[KubrickKurasawa]

Originally Posted by TripleHBK

Gee I wonder why...

Freddy vs Jason Budget -- $25 Million

Jason X Budget -- $14 Million
Jason Goes to Hell Budget -- $2.5 Million
Friday the 13th Part 8 Budget -- $8 Million
Friday the 13th Part 7 Budget -- $7 Million

You mean to tell me that a film that had between 2x - 10x the budget had better effects? Who ever would have predicted such a thing?

I'll take the practical effects found in 1-X any day of the week over almost anything found in the 2000's.

I hear you.

I personally like Part 4 and Jason X about the same though. Unpopular opinion I think. Get this...

Part 4 budget = 2.6 mil & better/more liked than all you mentioned too! And this threads favorite Friday! Gee I wonder why? Lol??

Hint:

[Show spoiler]It's not the Kane Hodder Jason stunts. Kane Hodder does have a handful of Iconic Kills in the series though!! He's cool! But...

[Show spoiler]It's the kills, the scarieness, the cast, the script, tits and butts, and the comedy, and directing. Part 4 had Tom Savini at his prime, Crispin Glover, Corey Feldmen, Joseph Zito. Amazing what 2.6 million can get you ain't it! So why are 7, 8, and 9 so damn terrible? No good scripts, no cast, not enough awesome kills, not scary enough either! bad directing, bad editing etc.

I do love Jason X though it brought the formula back, in Space which was a great idea because 6,7,8,9 ruined the series! Going to Space can only bring it back! I think it would have been better or just as good with Ken Kirzinger, it's also possible it wouldn't have as well! Who knows! Not the rest on that short list. They can burn in hell, drown in NYC or Crystal Lake for all I care. Same with Part 6 they can go to Eternal Rest Cemetary and take a hairy turn LOL!

The only Friday films I like and find entertaining are 1-5,X,FvsJ,Reboot. If you like the others AWESOME! I find them a depressing low point for the series with a handful of cool kills that if combined and rebooted with a script, cast, director, good use of comedy etc. Might be worth watching. As they are? God NO!

TLDR

4>7+8+9 with same or less budget

Therefore 7+8+9=Worst in series, and they don't have an excuse exept they suck!

Jason X is an Awesome Satire with fun kills and better executed idea on bringing Jason back from the dead. That's my point. It's not about the budget.