Doctor Who: The Collection Season 12 • Tom Baker Season 1 - Limited Edition

[Dragon Ranger]

[Jezza]

Originally Posted by malcy30

I guess a special edition of Earthshock would help sales on S19 if they made you buy the boxset. Can’t see they would want to do both standalone and a boxset.

Had heard the high volume of S12 pre-orders pushes forward future releases as we may now get one every 4 months assuming sales hold up. I think S18 needs little work so they could get that out just after the summer and then a more extravagant S19 with Earthshock SE in December for the Christmas market.

Personally would loved to have seen one of the Pertwee seasons but I am sure they all need a lot of work to bring up to scratch compared to the Tom Baker or Davison. Would think they would stick to those three for now to try and keep sales high. McCoy and in particular Colin Baker could kill these releases stone dead with low sales.

In fairness that's a bit of an outdated attitude, 10+ years ago it was true, but not so much now.

In more recent years the appreciation for Colin and Sylvester has gone up, especially Sylvester. Seasons 25 and 26, in particular 26, are very highly regarded now and I think most recognise that in hindsight there was a substantial increase in quality and an effort to get the show back on track.
And given the revelations that have come out over the past few years surrounding Colin's tenure I think there's an understanding that circumstances were beyond his and the production team's control, so fans are more accepting of him now.
The days of Colin and Sylvester being considered 'terrible' are on the past.

If anything it wouldn't surprise me if season 26 is released early on, partly because of its acclaim, but also because the original DVDs are quite old now. Similarly the DVDs for Season 22 are also quite old and considering there's an iconic villain in all but one of the stories, much like Season 12, so it's also pretty marketable.
Add to that there's a tone of archive material from the mid-late 80s that I'm sure could be exploited on Blu-ray.

[Dragon Ranger]

Originally Posted by Jezza

In fairness that's a bit of an outdated attitude, 10+ years ago it was true, but not so much now.

In more recent years the appreciation for Colin and Sylvester has gone up, especially Sylvester. Seasons 25 and 26, in particular 26, are very highly regarded now and I think most recognise that in hindsight there was a substantial increase in quality and an effort to get the show back on track.
And given the revelations that have come out over the past few years surrounding Colin's tenure I think there's an understanding that circumstances were beyond his and the production team's control, so fans are more accepting of him now.
The days of Colin and Sylvester being considered 'terrible' are on the past.

If anything it wouldn't surprise me if season 26 is released early on, partly because of its acclaim, but also because the original DVDs are quite old now. Similarly the DVDs for Season 22 are also quite old and considering there's an iconic villain in all but one of the stories, much like Season 12, so it's also pretty marketable.
Add to that there's a tone of archive material from the mid-late 80s that I'm sure could be exploited on Blu-ray.

I'd buy any boxset featuring any Doctor and McCoy was my Doctor so I have been a huge fan of his since 1987. Can't believe it took so long for his era to be held in better regard. Curse of Fenric for example is bloomin fantastic.

[Fnord Prefect]

Originally Posted by malcy30

I guess a special edition of Earthshock would help sales on S19 if they made you buy the boxset. Can’t see they would want to do both standalone and a boxset.

Had heard the high volume of S12 pre-orders pushes forward future releases as we may now get one every 4 months assuming sales hold up. I think S18 needs little work so they could get that out just after the summer and then a more extravagant S19 with Earthshock SE in December for the Christmas market.

Personally would loved to have seen one of the Pertwee seasons but I am sure they all need a lot of work to bring up to scratch compared to the Tom Baker or Davison. Would think they would stick to those three for now to try and keep sales high. McCoy and in particular Colin Baker could kill these releases stone dead with low sales.

I'd rather have a Season 19 blu-ray set than an Earthshock special edition. Should have added the phrase "or vise versa" to my original comment as I meant to also say a Season 19 box might be the reason behind the rumoured Earthshock special edition.

Regarding Pertwee stories I agree they probably need more work than even the b&w seasons and as you say a 6th or 7th Doctor set at this point would potentially kill the range meaning we're probably only going to get 4th and 5th Doctor sets to begin with.

Though it'll be a while yet a set containing 7th's final series would be a day one purchase for me. My pet theory being that if they happen we'll get two McCoy sets of 6 serials rather 3 season separate season releases. I seem to remember McCoy was too busy in New Zealand to contribute to the Greatest Show In the Galaxy DVD so some new features exploring his thoughts on that story would be nice.

[malcy30]

Originally Posted by Jezza

In fairness that's a bit of an outdated attitude, 10+ years ago it was true, but not so much now.

In more recent years the appreciation for Colin and Sylvester has gone up, especially Sylvester. Seasons 25 and 26, in particular 26, are very highly regarded now and I think most recognise that in hindsight there was a substantial increase in quality and an effort to get the show back on track.
And given the revelations that have come out over the past few years surrounding Colin's tenure I think there's an understanding that circumstances were beyond his and the production team's control, so fans are more accepting of him now.
The days of Colin and Sylvester being considered 'terrible' are on the past.

If anything it wouldn't surprise me if season 26 is released early on, partly because of its acclaim, but also because the original DVDs are quite old now. Similarly the DVDs for Season 22 are also quite old and considering there's an iconic villain in all but one of the stories, much like Season 12, so it's also pretty marketable.
Add to that there's a tone of archive material from the mid-late 80s that I'm sure could be exploited on Blu-ray.

Okay fans may be re-evaluating them, although for me they still rate at the bottom for classic DW.

My comment is they don’t drive sales and would particularly in the US sell a fraction of Tom Baker and probably Davison as well.

Is no surprise the BBC have started with Tom Baker and the next rumoured series are a Tom Baker and a Davison. I guess we may see a McCoy in a few years if these continue at the rate of 3 or 4 per year but I wouldn’t hold my breathe for Colin Baker unless these get to virtually all the original stuff making BD.

[Jezza]

Originally Posted by malcy30

Okay fans may be re-evaluating them, although for me they still rate at the bottom for classic DW.

My comment is they don’t drive sales and would particularly in the US sell a fraction of Tom Baker and probably Davison as well.

Is no surprise the BBC have started with Tom Baker and the next rumoured series are a Tom Baker and a Davison. I guess we may see a McCoy in a few years if these continue at the rate of 3 or 4 per year but I wouldn’t hold my breathe for Colin Baker unless these get to virtually all the original stuff making BD.

It is though also dependent on the source material, not just popularity, and late 80s episodes are in far better shape than most of Pertwee's seasons. In fact the only Pertwee season you could easily release right now of Pertwee's is Season 10, all the others have questionable source material. They would need to hold off a until even more advanced restoration techniques become available before tackling his other seasons again.

And they can't exactly rely on Tom and Peter for first few years, especially as Peter would be over and done with in no time at all and it would get a bit repetitive with so many Tom seasons. If anything other than the rumoured Season 18, I wouldn't be surprised if they do one season per Doctor before cycling back round and starting each Doctor over again. The exception would probably be the 60s season, but I think we're all expecting to hold them off for now.

If they're going by how the DVDs were handled then they will vary the releases, by mixing up 'popular' and 'unpopular' seasons/Doctors. You can't postpone the 'unpopular' stuff until the end because then they may not sell at all. If you mix it up you're encouraging consumers to collect them all and just generally making for a more interesting release pattern.
The VHS releases made the mistake of holding off the bad stories until the end, but the DVDs deliberately held off on Terror of the Zygons and The Tenth Planet until the end because they knew they would sell well irrespective of when they would get released.

Originally Posted by Dragon Ranger

I'd buy any boxset featuring any Doctor and McCoy was my Doctor so I have been a huge fan of his since 1987. Can't believe it took so long for his era to be held in better regard. Curse of Fenric for example is bloomin fantastic.

Exactly, easily one of the finest of examples of Who from any era, let alone McCoy's.

[Dragon Ranger]

Speaking of Zygons I once stayed the night in the Pub where it was filmed. It had barely changed on the outside.

[Man From Hammer]

Originally Posted by malcy30

McCoy and in particular Colin Baker could kill these releases stone dead with low sales.

Absolutely.
Certainly in the UK market where the dvd's are not OOP like they are in the US I see this Bluray range struggling beyond 3 or 4 seasons. The idea of McCoy and Colin Baker on Bluray seems laughable , for the UK at least.

By the 80's many of the technical limitations of video that were present on the 70s' stories but cleaned up for the dvd's weere gone so even with the best hype in the world Blurays will not improve the quality. I would expect all the Blurays in the UK will sell on extras alone so they will need a very high standard of bonus feature to keep the cash cow delivering

[Fnord Prefect]

The blu-rays will certainly have better picture quality than even the recent DVDs and if the elements are up to scratch better sound too. However despite the work of DW Restoration Team and their billion pound standards converter gizmo I'll be shocked if the improvements are anything more than negligible. As MfH said, presumably in the UK (and no doubt PAL territories in general) these will sell on the back of bonus material.

[Man From Hammer]

Originally Posted by Fnord Prefect

The blu-rays will certainly have better picture quality than even the recent DVDs and if the elements are up to scratch better sound too. However despite the work of DW Restoration Team and their billion pound standards converter gizmo I'll be shocked if the improvements are anything more than negligible.

That's the thing. I'm sure the RT sitting in front of their computer displays will see graphs and diagrams that show what appears to be a big improvement but I wonder if Joe Public will see or even appreciate it.
Obviously the NTSC audience should notice it more.

I know we Dr Who fans are among the biggest anoraks on the planet but are there enough of us who will pay all over again for what could be a marginal improvement?

[adamclark83]

Originally Posted by thecooldud

I'm sure they will.
(Lalla isn't in the Key to Time, though the first Romana is. Lalla is in seasons 17 and 18. )

I knew that. Of seasons 17 and 18 with Lalla, I much prefer 17 and if I remember correctly, so does she.

[McCrutchy]

Now pushed back again to 18 June.

[adamclark83]

How many times are they going to keep chop-and-changing the release date?

[thecooldud]

Originally Posted by Jezza

In fairness that's a bit of an outdated attitude, 10+ years ago it was true, but not so much now.

In more recent years the appreciation for Colin and Sylvester has gone up, especially Sylvester. Seasons 25 and 26, in particular 26, are very highly regarded now and I think most recognise that in hindsight there was a substantial increase in quality and an effort to get the show back on track.
And given the revelations that have come out over the past few years surrounding Colin's tenure I think there's an understanding that circumstances were beyond his and the production team's control, so fans are more accepting of him now.
The days of Colin and Sylvester being considered 'terrible' are on the past.

If anything it wouldn't surprise me if season 26 is released early on, partly because of its acclaim, but also because the original DVDs are quite old now. Similarly the DVDs for Season 22 are also quite old and considering there's an iconic villain in all but one of the stories, much like Season 12, so it's also pretty marketable.
Add to that there's a tone of archive material from the mid-late 80s that I'm sure could be exploited on Blu-ray.

Most of fandom has long held seasons 25 and especially 26 in very high regard; it just tends to be a very small minority of loudmouths who try to convince people otherwise.

[Dante20161]

probably this was moved to the 18th june as a certain black panther is out on 11th june

[Jezza]

Originally Posted by Dante20161

probably this was moved to the 18th june as a certain black panther is out on 11th june

I don't think there's much crossover between Black Panther and Who, so I doubt that's it.

Looking at what extras been passed by the BBFC, it seems some additional ones were added quite late on so will require extra time to add them to the discs.

Knowing the history of BBC Blu-rays I'm hoping the delay will allow for a polished fault-free release. The last thing this set needs is for any kind of error to slip through.

[Man From Hammer]

Originally Posted by thecooldud

Most of fandom has long held seasons 25 and especially 26 in very high regard; it just tends to be a very small minority of loudmouths who try to convince people otherwise.

You don't need to be loud to convince anyone seasons 25 and 26 are shit.
We were there when they were on. They were so highly regarded the show was cancelled.
But they are not unique in that. The majority of the JNT era is an embarassment with the odd decent story somewhere in between.
The JNT obsession with having comedy actors appear in what often amount to be no better than pantomime didn't make it a hard decision for the BBC to take

[Jezza]

Originally Posted by Man From Hammer

You don't need to be loud to convince anyone seasons 25 and 26 are shit.
We were there when they were on. They were so highly regarded the show was cancelled.
But they are not unique in that. The majority of the JNT era is an embarassment with the odd decent story somewhere in between.
The JNT obsession with having comedy actors appear in what often amount to be no better than pantomime didn't make it a hard decision for the BBC to take

And you wonder why so many on this forum are calling out for having a negative attitude....

[Man From Hammer]

Originally Posted by Jezza

And you wonder why so many on this forum are calling out for having a negative attitude....

My opinion is that the JNT era is shite.
Seasons 25 and 26 are no better than the rest of his tenure.
Am I supposed to say that they are actually quite good?
What a curious complaint on a forum.

We can't all like all the same stuff. Just backing up my opinions with some facts- it always helps.

My fave era is the Pertwee era but I wouldn't complain if someone came along and expressed a dislike of it, specially if they had some valid reasons. The constant appearances of sitcom actors in the show was a regular complaint in fandom at the time. Read some DWB of the era.
Later issues explain how the involvement of JNT almost ruined the video range too - until he was fired.

Criticism of the JNT era is not being negative toward this new release. Far from it. I am looking forward to this one but I do remain cynical about the range being able to sustain more than 3 or 4 releases, but time will tell
The notion of seasons 25 and 26 making it to Bluray seems preposterous , but then any taped Who on Bluray seemed the same a year ago.

Bonus features will interest a lot of people. I'm not convinced the "improvement" in quality will be substantial enough to sell the titles on their own. And as one of the production team already said, the future of the range is very dependant on day one sales. That's quite a few variables.
But I would say initial interest in this season aswell as the wealth of bonus features should guarantee at least one more season on Bluray and likely quite quickly. Strike while the irons hot and all that

[Jezza]

Originally Posted by Man From Hammer

My opinion is that the JNT era is shite.
Seasons 25 and 26 are no better than the rest of his tenure.
Am I supposed to say that they are actually quite good?
What a curious complaint on a forum.

We can't all like all the same stuff. Just backing up my opinions with some facts- it always helps.

My fave era is the Pertwee era but I wouldn't complain if someone came along and expressed a dislike of it, specially if they had some valid reasons. The constant appearances of sitcom actors in the show was a regular complaint in fandom at the time. Read some DWB of the era.
Later issues explain how the involvement of JNT almost ruined the video range too - until he was fired

God, DWB, one of the worst things to ever come out of Doctor Who fandom and summed up everything that was wrong with its fans during that era, and sadly similar attitudes have persisted to the present day, only now they're found on Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and Tumblr.

I'm not sitting here saying everything is great about Who, but it's healthier to keep a positive tone about things, which is what I try to do and why I'm excited about this new BD set.

I'll just leave it at that, there's no point going back and forth on this.