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Old 03-15-2019, 01:40 PM   #50341
Marsupial Werewolf Marsupial Werewolf is online now
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Someone else on the Dark Force Facebook thread is also confirming that Dark Force's version of FORCED ENTRY is, in fact, missing explicit content.

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I just watched both versions on the blu ray. It was my first time seeing the Last Victim cut. Enjoyable, but not at all what I remembered. The Forced Entry cut is the version I'm familiar with. This cut of Forced Entry is shorter then I remember (I haven't seen the movie in years), most notably in the violent/sleaze scenes. And the rape scene with Nancy Allen. So there you go...
So Dave is running around on Facebook telling people "nothing important" is missing when what's really is missing is the whole reason for this movie's existence.

You'd think Dave would've checked the VHS version against his version. "Other labels" would've been crucified for putting out a movie missing a lot less, let alone sixteen minutes.
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Old 03-15-2019, 01:45 PM   #50342
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Dave doesn't get to decide if what's missing is important or not.
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Old 03-15-2019, 01:45 PM   #50343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsupial Werewolf View Post
Someone else on the Dark Force Facebook thread is also confirming that Dark Force's version of FORCED ENTRY is, in fact, missing explicit content.



So Dave is running around on Facebook telling people "nothing important" is missing when what's really is missing is the whole reason for this movie's existence.

You'd think Dave would've checked the VHS version against his version. "Other labels" would've been crucified for putting out a movie missing a lot less, let alone sixteen minutes.
Weird thing is I saw another post on facebook from a buyer who compared the 72min vs the 1984 88min and claimed the main thing cut was some driving scenes and that it had a truncated beginning and end. I haven't compared myself tho since I don't have the 88min as I'm not much interested in the re-cut.. This would be a good one for movie-censorship.com.

Shame of it is the 1975 75min last victim cut on the disc is solid and this controversy is overshadowing that. They should have just left off the 72min cut entirely.

Last edited by Ruined; 03-15-2019 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:18 PM   #50344
Marsupial Werewolf Marsupial Werewolf is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
Shame of it is the 1975 75min last victim cut on the disc is solid and this controversy is overshadowing that.
It's fine. It looks really good. Of the two versions on the disc, its the better of the two.

But you have to understand that *most* people know this as FORCED ENTRY. That title has all the notoriety. That title is the one i've read about for years. It's the version most people have seen due to its VHS release. And it's why the movie has any sort of following.

So while THE LAST VICTIM is fine as "the director's original version" it's a big mistake to have screwed up the version that most people are expecting to have on Blu-ray.

I think it's awesome that Dark Force tackled this release. But the controversy around it is because they failed to preserve the version everyone knows. And Bill and Dave's "good enough" mentality doesn't fly in this market. Especially when this could be the last time it's ever released on any physical format.
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:19 PM   #50345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsupial Werewolf View Post
Or Dark Force could've done it right and just filled in the missing sixteen minutes with SD inserts.
That would have been fine too, I'm just saying as is unless some more context is given by the filmmaker the 72min cut included seems unnecessary and more of a hinder than help to the release.
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:25 PM   #50346
Marsupial Werewolf Marsupial Werewolf is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
That would have been fine too, I'm just saying as is unless some more context is given by the filmmaker the 72min cut included seems unnecessary and more of a hinder than help to the release.
Fair enough.

Though I do think people would've complained if *just* that version was included, too. Maybe not quite as much if Dark Force had been upfront about it, but in a market where LOTS of cult labels offer multiple cuts of older titles, I think the only play here was to include both cuts as full and complete as possible.
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:30 PM   #50347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsupial Werewolf View Post
Fair enough.

Though I do think people would've complained if *just* that version was included, too. Maybe not quite as much if Dark Force had been upfront about it, but in a market where LOTS of cult labels offer multiple cuts of older titles, I think the only play here was to include both cuts as full and complete as possible.
If expectations were set ahead of time, I think it would have been okay. There also might be some rights or other issue with using a VHS rip of the 88min cut, who knows. Maybe Bill only had rights to the full uncut 1975 last victim and some 72min TV cut of 1984 forced entry (but not full 88min cut)? Only Bill knows answer to this likely.

Last Victim 1975 75min had enough going for itself that it didn't need all the baggage the 72min cut brought.

Last edited by Ruined; 03-15-2019 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:31 PM   #50348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kraven View Post
Dave doesn't get to decide if what's missing is important or not.
Best thing I've read on this thread since, well, forever.
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:56 PM   #50349
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Wow, reading through the DF and CR thread about this latest snafu has been both interesting and tiring at the same time.

Looks like they should have only put out The Last Victim and left Forced Entry out of it entirely if they didn't have the full elements for that version of the film. Putting out an incomplete cut of that version did them no favors. If they just released The Last Victim, there would be no false advertising going on and they could have also said that they're putting out the version the director wants the world see, which likely is one of the truthful things they've said about this release.

It wouldn't have prevented them from releasing Forced Entry later on either and it would have given them more time to figure out what's been cut, which they should have known based on the vast difference in time, and correct it somehow. Sure, it might suck to buy something again for a different cut of a film but it's not like that hasn't happened before (I'm looking at you Peter Jackson and all your extended editions, although Kino is a better example with how they handled Black Sabbath). Honesty and transparency go a long way with tempering expectations and building confidence in a brand. If lower quality inserts would be required to complete the Forced Entry cut, be honest about that upfront, people are accepting of that when they know about it and why. And if you're not going to bother to correct it, make sure you label what you're putting out correctly, in this case, it's probably some sort of TV edit, although "Newly Neutered Edition" sounds better since if Bill was involved something about balls need to be mentioned every now and then.
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:03 PM   #50350
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BTW if any are wondering quality of the last victim and FE, it is mixed. The majority is very good but it seems there are some small snippets (only a couple mins of total runtime) in SD that were taken from a 15fps 240i source with aliasing - seems these cuts were a bit pieced together. The opening credits of FE are a good example of this or around 37:45 of the last victim cut. On brief glance color looks similar between the two cuts.

On the whole though this looks nice and filmic 99% of the time.

2second dialog sync issue @9:27 probably bad adr

Color outstanding

Last edited by Ruined; 03-15-2019 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:38 PM   #50351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloudnine View Post
The 1975 version as LAST VICTIM which is 75 minutes and uncut isn't your concern. It's the early 80's 72 min. version of FORCED ENTRY that is heavily cut and missing scenes of extreme violence. FE orig. runtime should be 88 minutes. I own the tape.
Did Tanya Roberts even agree to being in 88min Forced Entry? Sure, she was in Last Victim but FE was 9yr later and recut into a much different and more violent movie using her Last Victim performance. I know they had to hire a new actress to reprise her role in Forced Entry to make the 1984 voiceover. Would not be surprised if there was some legal issue afoot as another poster mentioned, but who knows what really happened.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:03 PM   #50352
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Why are you continuing to try to spread this speculation? It's clearly being deleted.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:44 PM   #50353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
BTW if any are wondering quality of the last victim and FE, it is mixed. The majority is very good but it seems there are some small portions in SD that were taken from a source with aliasing - seems these cuts were a bit pieced together. The opening credits of FE are a good example of this. On brief glance color looks similar between the two cuts.

On the whole though this looks nice and filmic most of the time.
Why are you talking about a Dark Forces release in the Code Red thread? The DF thread was locked down for a reason. Let it go.
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:55 PM   #50354
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Let them keep spewing. Maybe they'll close this thread too
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:08 PM   #50355
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Ok, so I just got my copy of FORCED ENTRY/LAST VICTIM. So the 75 min version is the one to watch, then?
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:36 PM   #50356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuggyBear73 View Post
Ok, so I just got my copy of FORCED ENTRY/LAST VICTIM. So the 75 min version is the one to watch, then?
Yup "Last Victim Cut" is the one I'd go for.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:35 PM   #50357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonMichael View Post
Why are you talking about a Dark Forces release in the Code Red thread?
FYI it's a joint release. Disc has both Dark Force and Code Red trailers. See attached screen from the disc menu.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20190315_183558~2-800x395.jpg (90.6 KB, 26 views)

Last edited by Ruined; 03-15-2019 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:41 PM   #50358
Thomas Irwin Thomas Irwin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsupial Werewolf View Post
RIP Dark Force thread. Not sure why it was actually locked, unless a lot of crazy stuff was deleted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
There was definitely stuff deleted after that last post in the thread but I don't rememeber it being particularly controversial, maybe something happened overnight.
Things definitely got ugly in the early morning hours of yesterday. It was cleaned up fairly quick though. I think the mods were simply wary of it heading in that direction again. It has certainly been pretty bad on Facebook. Though oddly, through it all, we seem to have achieved a certain level of unity and accord. For once, the Facebook posters generally aren't blaming the "toxic" members here.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:35 PM   #50359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruined View Post
FYI it's a joint release. Disc has both Dark Force and Code Red trailers. See attached screen from the disc menu.
The authoring was probably completed awhile ago, but no mention of Code Red on the back cover though.

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Old 03-15-2019, 11:41 PM   #50360
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