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Old 11-27-2010, 12:43 AM   #1
jorjoskim jorjoskim is offline
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Default Deep color output (HDMI)

Hey all!

I just bought the Sony BDP-S370. Upgrading from the old S300.

My question is whether I should have the Deep Color Output setting on Auto, 10-bit, or off.

My TV is a Sony 52Z5100 which uses a 10-bit panel. So I assume it is DCO capable. So should I set the BDP to the 10-bit setting?

Thanks,
Joe
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Old 11-27-2010, 01:09 AM   #2
trentv85050 trentv85050 is offline
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The content itself, has to be 10-bit.
Right now, it's 8-bit.

Software, Hardware I/O.
8-bit workflow. 8x3=24-bit.
10-bit workflow. 10x3=30-bit. Next step.
12-bit workflow. 12x3=36-bit.
16-bit workflow. 16x3=48-bit.

Last edited by trentv85050; 11-27-2010 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 11-27-2010, 01:30 AM   #3
crackinhedz crackinhedz is offline
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as Trentv mentioned, Bluray disc only supports 8 bit.

No real advantage for 10 bit output unless you're using Camera/HD Camcorder that uses 10 bit.
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Old 11-27-2010, 02:44 AM   #4
elwaylite elwaylite is offline
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Put it on auto.

Some sets can accept 4:4:4 ycbcr 36 bit (12bit), which is just the native 4:2:2 20 bit (10bit) increased with color interpolation.

My set for example, can accept 4:4:4 36 bit, so I send 4:2:2 20 bit from my player to the pre/pro, then it outputs 4:4:4 36 bit to the display (DVDO handles the color interpolation).
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Old 11-27-2010, 05:35 AM   #5
Ray O. Blu Ray O. Blu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorjoskim View Post
Hey all!

I just bought the Sony BDP-S370. Upgrading from the old S300.

My question is whether I should have the Deep Color Output setting on Auto, 10-bit, or off.

My TV is a Sony 52Z5100 which uses a 10-bit panel. So I assume it is DCO capable. So should I set the BDP to the 10-bit setting?

Thanks,
Joe
Howdy, I have a 52Z5100 also and I have a BDP-S470 coming soon. I was curious about which setting to use for the DCO also. I figured Auto would be fine. Could you give an update on how yours is working out for you when you set it up and get a chance to report back? Thanks OP.
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Old 11-27-2010, 02:57 PM   #6
trentv85050 trentv85050 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwaylite View Post
Put it on auto.

Some sets can accept 4:4:4 ycbcr 36 bit (12bit), which is just the native 4:2:2 20 bit (10bit) increased with color interpolation.

My set for example, can accept 4:4:4 36 bit, so I send 4:2:2 20 bit from my player to the pre/pro, then it outputs 4:4:4 36 bit to the display (DVDO handles the color interpolation).
You can do interpolation, convert, upscale, upconvert, etc, all you want.
It's pseudo, unless otherwise.
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Old 11-27-2010, 03:13 PM   #7
elwaylite elwaylite is offline
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So I guess dvd upconversion is a scam huh? We should quit letting those Oppo guys get away with that then...

Last edited by elwaylite; 11-27-2010 at 03:23 PM.
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Old 11-28-2010, 02:17 AM   #8
oppopioneer oppopioneer is offline
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I have a Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-151FD plasma, does it support 4:4:4 ycbcr 36 bit (12bit) or 4:2:2 20 bit (10bit) ? I have it hooked up to a Pioneer Elite BDP-23FD bluray player and I had Color Space set to 'Auto'. Which is the correct setting for best PQ ?
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Old 11-28-2010, 02:20 AM   #9
elwaylite elwaylite is offline
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Auto is right. They will communicate via HDMI, and the player will select the proper format for the TV.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extende...ification_data

Last edited by elwaylite; 11-28-2010 at 02:23 AM.
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Old 11-28-2010, 02:23 AM   #10
oppopioneer oppopioneer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwaylite View Post
Auto is right. They will communicate via HDMI, and the player will select the proper format for the TV.
Sounds interesting, what are the advantages and disadvantages of those options in Color Space and what do they achieve?
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Old 11-28-2010, 02:28 AM   #11
elwaylite elwaylite is offline
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It's just color interpolation, kinda like LCD frame interpolation. The process is filling in extra color bits, that were not there before.

Here is a review of the BD85, and it's 4:4:4 output.

Quote:
Rather than follow the standard process of upconverting the chroma (color) signal from the compressed 4:2:0 stored on the disc to 4:2:2, then de-interlacing the 480i DVD signal to 480p and doing additional color processing, Panasonic has chosen to apply the deinterlace processing first, which gives the video processor more color information to work with when doing the chroma upsampling from 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 all the way to 4:4:4. What this means to the layman is that the DMP-BD85 is able to provide full color detail for each and every pixel in the 1920x1080 pixel progressive output, restoring details that are lost in the video encoding process. This leads to cleaner edges and superior visible detail in the video signal. According to Panasonic, the improvements in chroma processing apply not just to 480i and 1080i material, but to 1080p material as well (though the improvements to 1080p discs are much more subtle).

Putting that processing claim to the test, the Chroma Zone test plate pattern on Spears and Munsil's Benchmark Blu-ray Disc looked beautiful (as far as test patterns go, that is), with excellent definition and smoothness on the radiating lines. This is the cleanest I've ever seen this test pattern showing that the player's chroma processing is top notch. The player easily locked onto both 2:2 (video) and 2:3 (film) cadences on both DVDs and Blu-ray Discs, which represent most material available in both formats, though it did have mixed results on the more unusual cadence tests, leading to some visible moir and tearing around edges. The BD85 also performed well on the "jaggies" tests in SD and HD versions (HQV DVD and Blu-ray, as well as Spears and Munsil Blu-ray), showing that the player includes an excellent diagonal filter. Mixed cadence tests (a film-sourced background with video titles overlaid) was clean, with virtually no tearing or comb artifacts. Overall the player performed extremely well on standard def and 1080i high def content converting the output to 1080p.

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The be honest, if you just used source direct, or auto, you'd prob not see a difference. I run my player on source direct, because I have the calibrated pre/pro, and I have all it's settings to auto. Since my plasma is capable, the pre/pro takes the source direct from the player, and sends 4:4:4 36 bit (12 bit) to the S2. As I stated, I checked the results with spears and munsil chroma tests, and it does well.
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Old 11-28-2010, 03:37 AM   #12
oppopioneer oppopioneer is offline
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So I should set Color Space to 'Auto' and set output to 'Source Direct'? If I set it to 'Auto' will my Pioneer Kuro 151FD set it to 4:4:4 ycbcr if the Kuro disply accepts it?
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Old 11-28-2010, 03:43 AM   #13
elwaylite elwaylite is offline
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Yes, yes and yes.
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Old 06-13-2015, 11:12 AM   #14
StingingVelvet StingingVelvet is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oppopioneer View Post
So I should set Color Space to 'Auto' and set output to 'Source Direct'? If I set it to 'Auto' will my Pioneer Kuro 151FD set it to 4:4:4 ycbcr if the Kuro disply accepts it?
Ancient thread but it comes up near the top when searching google about this setting, so I wanted to post my recent experience. My new Vizio TV for the bedroom was giving me fits with it's glowing, very red and warm color. I couldn't figure out what was wrong with it since picture quality in reviews was said to be excellent and calibration discs showed no errors.

I was playing around with my BD player's settings and changed HDMI Deep Color Output from "auto" to "off" the other night. Suddenly the TV looked right, people no longer glowed and the normal color mode looked like proper 6500k white. The TV was saved.

So not every TV and BD player negotiate this setting correctly. Since BD only supports 8 bit anyway, I would say turn the setting off and compare your picture, making sure it isn't boosting things artificially and making your picture worse.
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Old 06-22-2015, 05:41 AM   #15
smhussain smhussain is offline
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Good info here thanks.
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Old 07-01-2015, 10:33 AM   #16
BluRay84 BluRay84 is offline
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This is an interesting subject for a long time i've wondered if it actually done anything as I understand it Deep Colour makes colours look a bit more natural, realistic the difference should be subtle. my HD TV is pretty old now almost 10 years or so I'm not totally sure if this setting works on my set but when I turn Deep Colour on to Automatic Blu Rays looks bit better in my opinion, videogames too look noticeably more impressive.
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Old 07-01-2015, 11:54 AM   #17
Tech-UK Tech-UK is offline
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Blu-ray's are encoded at 8-bit per component giving you a total of 3 (components) x 8 (bits per component) = 24-bit, although actual bit usage is lower due to using video levels.

Deep Colour allows for more than 24-bit to be transported over HDMI, so when you playback a Blu-ray and you transmit more than 24-bit to your display, the player is basically multiplying/padding the bits to the desired Deep Colour level, for example 36-bit (12-bit per component). This shouldn't make the image pop more or give it more 'colour' because no additional colour is encoded on the disc, what it may do is allow for more precision for the colour space processing within the display, i.e. going from YCC to RGB to pixels, and it can also reduce banding due to the extra precision.

Deep Colour can also have a negative effect if the equipment is handling it wrong, so its always best to test your setup with and without Deep Colour enabled using the S&M 2nd edition test disc, and watch some content that you are familiar with, to see if the image has changed drastically. Although Deep Colour can be useful in some situations. For example, it helps reduce banding on my setup, so I use it, but I tested the results using the calibration test disc.

Last edited by Tech-UK; 07-01-2015 at 11:59 AM.
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Thanks given by:
Geoff D (07-01-2015)
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