Cross Of Iron

[mike siegel]

Dear Blu-ray experts,

I'm looking for a pardner to place my blu-ray/DVD supplements worldwide regarding films by Sam Peckinpah. I just finished bonus material for the upcoming french KILLER ELITE blu-ray / DVD special edition, but I had learned about that project mainly by sheer luck just four weeks before the deadline. I'm not really following or investigating upcoming Peckinpah releases, being tied up in all sorts of different projects not related to homevideo.

Hence I need someone (or more than one person) who is good at finding out very early about upcoming Peckinpah releases so we could offer possible new or already produced documentaries & featurettes etc. to the involved companies around the globe. I already missed the STRAW DOGS blu-rays, I could have done some nice additional supplements. Just think about the CROSS OF IRON blu-ray, it easily could have become a release without any supplements at all, if someone attached to the label here in Germany would not have rembered an old e-mail of mine.

There must be some persons around who are good at being 'up to date'. In any case, to discuss this matter any further, just forward me a message!

Mike

[huntauk]

I would highly recommend you liaise with blu-ray forum member King Simba as a point of contact regarding any future Peckinpah UK releases/exclusives.

[YOJIMBO JIM]

For anyone looking to purchase Cross Of Iron (Region A) there is a Japanese Version of Cross Of Iron coming out on November 27th and its already up for pre-order on amazon it will be Region A

[Early Memphis]

Originally Posted by YOJIMBO JIM

For anyone looking to purchase Cross Of Iron (Region A) there is a Japanese Version of Cross Of Iron coming out on November 27th and its already up for pre-order on amazon it will be Region A

That's the version I just got and watched. I wonder how it stacks up vs. the UK release. The disc says that it's 5.1, but it's DTS-HD MA mono. I thought the PQ was inconsistent, but that could be source related. Since the UK is region B and I'm A, only someone region free could A/B the two discs.

[HotRats]

I think the Japanese and UK editions are identical, same extras and Studio Canal logo on the front. Unfortunately the UK has a couple of problems (and probably all editions based on the Studio Canal transfer) http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...ss=1#vergleich and http://caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleich...ss=1#vergleich The same transfer appears to have been used on the Scandinavian, German, French and Spanish editions.

[Davidian]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

That's the version I just got and watched. I wonder how it stacks up vs. the UK release. The disc says that it's 5.1, but it's DTS-HD MA mono. I thought the PQ was inconsistent, but that could be source related. Since the UK is region B and I'm A, only someone region free could A/B the two discs.

So the Japanese version is all green as well?

[Early Memphis]

Well, I wouldn't say "all green" , however the images which play during the menu screen certainly look richer and more natural - perhaps sharper. That's especially evident when one returns to the menu after watching the movie. It struck me immediately. The menu footage appeared better all around.

EDIT : Thanks for the links, HotRats! Well, at least it looks better than the DVD I had way back when.

[CinemaScope]

This really does need re-doing. I think a steely, slightly desaturated bleach-bypass look would be just the job. That look wasn't available when Peckinpah made the film, I know he was going for a desaturated image & ended up with a greeny look, that's even worse now on the Blu-ray. This is a brilliant film & it deserves better.

[Novecento]

Originally Posted by CinemaScope

This really does need re-doing. I think a steely, slightly desaturated bleach-bypass look would be just the job. That look wasn't available when Peckinpah made the film, I know he was going for a desaturated image & ended up with a greeny look, that's even worse now on the Blu-ray.

Interesting comment. How exactly would a desaturated look end up green? Also, are you suggesting that the color should be re-done but in a different manner from the original so as to attain what you say Peckinpah (or rather Coquillon) was aiming for but did not manage to achieve?

[CinemaScope]

Originally Posted by Novecento

Interesting comment. How exactly would a desaturated look end up green? Also, are you suggesting that the color should be re-done but in a different manner from the original so as to attain what you say Peckinpah (or rather Coquillon) was aiming for but did not manage to achieve?

I don't know, maybe going away from warm colours he ended up with green, there wasn't really a way to desaturate a print then (he'd been better off with a cold look), what's worse, the picture is so flat on the Blu-ray)

http://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&d1...=1&x=511&y=327

With bleach-bypass (so beloved by film-makers about 15 years ago) you get deep blacks desaturated colours, a cold look, I'd think perfect for Cross Of Iron. This is achieved by bypassing the bleach bath on the processing machine. Peckinpah didn't have that option then. Meanwhile, I'd rather have my memories of this film than own the rotten looking Blu-ray.

[Novecento]

Originally Posted by CinemaScope

I don't know, maybe going away from warm colours he ended up with green, there wasn't really a way to desaturate a print then...

Thanks - I'm curious since all the other reviewers that criticized the colors said it was not an authentic representation of the original. It seems you are saying that it is actually an authentic representation of the original, its just that the original was not what Peckinpah and Coquillon intended. Also, hadn't Vilmos Zsigmond already famously flashed the print of McCabe & Mrs Miller 6 years earlier to get a desaturated look?

[Aclea]

Originally Posted by CinemaScope

there wasn't really a way to desaturate a print then

Yes there was, and that kind of grading, if not commonplace, was often used in 70s films - the end of Taxi Driver was deliberately desaturated through a Chemtone process to avoid getting an X rating because of the quantities of onscreen blood, for example. John Huston and Oswald Morris were experimenting with how far the process could be taken long before that, desaturating the Eastman-shot Moby Dick through adapting the Technicolor dye-transfer system on the release prints to get the look of vintage whaling prints. Freddie Young used pre-exposed stock on The Deadly Affair to create a muted color range that Sidney Lumet called 'colorless color.' The opening sequence of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid is another example, albeit in a very different style. Had Peckinpah really wanted a drastically desaturated look - something that he never really went for in any of his films - he certainly would have had the means to do it in 1976-77, either in-camera or processing the release prints.

[CinemaScope]

I'm thinking back to a documentary I saw on the telly about Peckenpah, I can't remember much about it, I think it was about the time of Cross Of Iron, & it in he was at the lab trying to mute the colours (not "drastically desaturate" it)*. He didn't use flashed stock when he shot it & probably didn't have any budget left to muck around too much. But...I'd be happy with a full colour version, as long as it looked good. That's all I really want, a good looking Blu-ray of Cross Of Iron.

*or was it a doc about Cross Of Iron? In it, they talk of how the ending came about...they ran out of money, Peckenpah came to the set one morning & no crew or cast, shooting finished, no money left!

[Aclea]

Though it never hit the crisis point it did on Convoy, Peckinpah's drug abuse problem was so bad on the film that he reportedly forgot he had already filmed certain scenes and had sent the actors home and would turn up on set expecting to shoot them for the first time. The story was that the only day he turned up on the set on time was the day after they'd finished shooting. But I do know several of the editors who worked on the film - it was basically a tag team effort with different editors working on different sections of the film by the end - and they seemed to be able to find the money for that. It wouldn't have been a huge problem to simply grade the film with a muted look without going through any elaborate special processes, but Peckinpah's state of mind may well have changed from day to day during the process.

[Novecento]

Originally Posted by CinemaScope

I'm thinking back to a documentary I saw on the telly about Peckenpah, I can't remember much about it, I think it was about the time of Cross Of Iron, & it in he was at the lab trying to mute the colours (not "drastically desaturate" it)*. He didn't use flashed stock when he shot it & probably didn't have any budget left to muck around too much. But...I'd be happy with a full colour version, as long as it looked good. That's all I really want, a good looking Blu-ray of Cross Of Iron.

*or was it a doc about Cross Of Iron? In it, they talk of how the ending came about...they ran out of money, Peckenpah came to the set one morning & no crew or cast, shooting finished, no money left!

The interesting thing is that the new BD has quite a muted color scheme - not in a desaturated sense but more in a sepia-tinted sense. I actually really like how it looks and the reviewer of the disc on this site suggests that is how it should actually look. While you do not agree with the reviewer on liking the colors, you do seem to be suggesting that it was the original color (regardless of Coquillon's and Peckinpah's actual intent). It would be great if you could remember where you saw/heard all this.

[Dailyan]

I got my copy of this in the mail today and I gotta say...how did they mess up the year on the side and copyright date; 1950?

[BigNickUK]

Originally Posted by Dailyan

I got my copy of this in the mail today and I gotta say...how did they mess up the year on the side and copyright date; 1950?

Was it the new Vintage Classics branding?

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by BigNickUK

Was it the new Vintage Classics branding?

Yes. It has a 2015 release date and no sign of Optimum on the casing (except for the disc itself I assume they just reused the '11 release)

[BigNickUK]

Originally Posted by Dailyan

Yes. It has a 2015 release date and no sign of Optimum on the casing (except for the disc itself I assume they just reused the '11 release)

Good grief , how wrong could they get

[Hawkmonger]

Came here to say the exact same thing, it's jumped out at me this morning and have no idea how Studio canal could blunder so badly. It's annoying me now i've seen it.