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Old 09-30-2014, 12:37 AM   #1
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Exclamation Early Blu-rays that may have playback issues - Provide Mould Code when reporting!

This thread is going to go through some cleanup and re-organization (hopefully soon) to provide a more insightful and data-driven analysis of this problem. Right now, the thread and people's thinking are very studio-oriented (i.e., "Lionsgate discs rot," "Criterion discs used to rot but now don't thankfully"), but really the important issue is the disc replicator. One studio can, and usually does, use multiple replicators, so finding and recording where problem discs were actually manufactured is the key to tracking this.

People come here and report when a disc they own has died, which is certainly good to know, but the followup question that I always ask (and is almost always ignored) is "Where was the disc manufactured?" I'm hoping people will read this introduction and provide that information when they first report a disc instead of having to be chased for a followup question. How do you find that information, you might be wondering? Well just look at the following photo:



That is actually a photo of a CD (it is the most informative and well-shot photo I have found thus far), but the principle is 100% the same for Blu-rays. The "Mould Code" on the clear plastic at the center of the disc is the crucial information; it might be hard to see in certain light, and a magnifying glass certainly makes it a lot easier. That code allows us to trace what replication company and even what machine was used to press that disc. Finding all that information from the code can be tricky sometimes, but just make sure to post the Mould Code in this thread, and we can do the rest.

Known US problem codes (and relevant time periods):

IFPI 10K6
IFPI 10K7
IFPI 10K8

These three were codes used by Sonopress, USA, and are most notable for being the codes of the bronzing Criterion discs from 2009 to 2010. The Sonopress USA plant has since closed, so no new discs are being pressed by them anymore, but it's unknown the extent of their pressing (and problems) during the period that they were pressing Blu-rays. I've seen early Image BDs with these codes, but I haven't run into an Image BD that has bronzed (yet?).

---

IFPI 2F29

CMCA / Deluxe. I believe I've mistakenly attributed this Mould Code to DiscMakers in the past, and I will try to clean up any instances of that I find. CMCA / Deluxe is one of the few replicators remaining in the US (Lionsgate uses them to this very day), and unfortunately there are quite a few Lionsgate discs that have rotted in the past, leading to people being generally distrustful of all Lionsgate discs even though CMCA / Deluxe is the real problem.

Very early Lionsgate discs up through at least 2010 have had many reports of bronzing or failure (My Bloody Valentine, Near Dark, Wallace and Gromit Collection, Rambo 1-4, etc.). From 2011 on, there really have not been significant reports (I can think of maybe 3 individual reports of bad discs across that entire time period, which is statistically pretty close to 0). Lionsgate HAS used other replicators from time to time - I've seen "IFPI 2U**" discs from them, though not super frequently, and they press their 4K UHD discs at Technicolor Mexico (IFPI KK**, a plant with a very good track record thankfully).

Fox has also used CMCA / Deluxe - both very early on (2006-2008) and very recently (through 2019, though their acquisition by Disney might finally change that because Disney does not use CMCA / Deluxe). I'm unsure when they switched away and switched back, but I don't think they used CMCA / Deluxe for the entirety - that might explain why we don't hear reports of bad Fox discs in the 2009-2010 period that is so prevalent for Lionsgate. This type of issue right here is why it is key for problem discs to be reported along with their IFPI Mould Codes.

---

IFPI 2TB4

2TB4 corresponds to Technicolor, California. Some 2008-early 2009 Paramount BDs have had this code and been reported for bronzing (at least one of the Jack Ryan movies, Cloverfield, many reports of Zodiac disc 2). I believe this plant is now closed, but that is a more recent development.

---

IFPI IC0Z

This is actually an Asian replicator (which is a whole different can of worms; there were many problematic Asian pressings in the 2009-2011 period), but it makes an appearance on the US list because Well Go USA had their discs manufactured there. Well Go USA stopped using them after the issues were discovered, and I have not seen them used for any US Blu-rays since (though they are still a replicator for Asian Blu-rays, and they say the problem was due to some bad resin that they no longer use).

Known international problem codes: Work-in-progress



Original thread below (will be deleted once all information is incorporated into the new structure):

------

This thread was initially a thread for Criterion BDs suffering from disc rot (bronzing and/or peeling). It now covers all BDs with potential defects.

This thread is for discs that either don't work properly or have some sort of mistake. Movies in need of restoration or remastering are excluded.

--------------------------------------------------

Blue Underground: New York Ripper (air bubbles)

Criterion BDs: bronzing/peeling discs, replacements for some being sent out as of 11/12/2014 (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1349); Carlos (audio problem; replacement available); Eraserhead (video error; replacement available); Three Colors: White (audio problem; replacement available)

Disney BDs: The Little Mermaid (improper video edit; Disney will replace 2D discs but not 3D discs); Pinocchio (missing dialogue; replacement available); Pirates of the Caribbean 1 (mis-framed; replacement available); The Prestige (disc simply stops working; replacement available); Unbreakable (audio issue); Who Framed Roger Rabbit? (The BD is fine, but the DVD might be Pan&Scan instead of widescreen; replacement available)

Echo Bridge: Godzilla vs. Biollante (12/04/2012 release; missing audio channel; superseded by 10/07/2014 Lionsgate release)

Fox/MGM BDs: Die Hard 2 (missing DTS-HD MA track; Fox just sent out the same bad disc as a "replacement"); Sunshine (video commentary can't be turned off; replacement available); Speed (compatibility issues with some Samsung players); West Side Story (all versions affected; opening credits are altered; replacement discs are still incorrect; Fox did not replace the DVDs in combo sets); X-Men: Days of Future Past Rogue Cut (audio problems due to branching technology; no replacement/exchange program yet; call Fox to complain)

Funimation: Afro Samurai: Resurrection (audio is supposed to be Dolby TrueHD 5.1, NOT DD 5.1; replacement program here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=87829)

HBO: The Sopranos: The Complete Series (two episodes in Season 6 have minor defects; replacements available if you contact HBO)

Image: Into the Woods -- Original Broadway Cast (audio was encoded in mono instead of stereo; Image is sending out replacements; https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=101 ); The Twilight Zone Season 1 (Discs 1 and 4 may be glitchy; replacements available); The Phantom of the Opera (1925) (audio was encoded in mono instead of stero; replacement available; https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...7&postcount=42 )

Lionsgate BDs: many early titles no longer play https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1279; The Hunger Games Best Buy Exclusive (the movie disc does not play past the layer change)

Paramount BDs: Cloverfield (bronzing); Event Horizon (disc rot; https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=254972); Gladiator (defective video transfer; inactive replacement program; find a copy with a yellow barcode); Saving Private Ryan (audio sync problem; inactive replacement program; find a copy with a yellow barcode); Shine a Light (bronzing; https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1702); Star Trek TNG S1 (audio problems; inactive replacement program; find a copy with a yellow barcode); World Trade Center (disc skips during playback; possible rotting)

R&B Films: Chronos (compatibility problems with some players, including PS3; replacement offered but now superseded by IMAGE release)

Sony: Air Force One (incorrect subtitles; replacement available, but subtitles still incorrect compared to DVD versions); The Fifth Element Best Buy Pop Art Steelbook (Sony used the old disc master instead of the remastered version.); Starship Troopers (a scene is repeated; inactive replacement program); black crush on several titles between 2014 and 2015 (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=257809 )

Starz / Anchor Bay: Sin City: A Dame to Kill For (stacked discs might be stuck together, rendering them unplayable)

Universal: Battlestar Galactica: The Remastered Collection and Battlestar Galactica: The Definitive Collection (missing footage on Disc 3 of the widescreen version; replacement available via USHEConsumerRelations@visionmediamgmt.com); The Big Lebowski (08/16/2011) bronzing, same plant as bronzing Criterions (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1558); Halloween II (09/13/2011 release has wrong credits; replacement offered)

Warner: Batman: The Complete TV series (various issues; replacement offered; https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=15555); Blade Runner (first BD release may have incorrect Disc #5; https://www.thecnl.com/BladeRunnerBR.pdf); Enter the Dragon, 2007 first pressing, the one with A Warrior's Journey (disc no longer plays; replacement available, though you'll need to track down the two-disc DVD to get A Warrior's Journey); The Matrix Revolutions (http://s24.postimg.org/tx5ssw99h/Mat...ny_BDPS301.jpg); The Right Stuff DigiBook (audio error; replacement available; https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1400); 10,000 BC (discs might develop a hazy "mist"); Terminator 3 (early pressings were 1080i instead of 1080p)

Well Go USA BDs: bronzing discs (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1278); Well Go USA's PDF about this issue: http://www.wellgousa.com/sites/defau...0-%20FINAL.pdf; Torrente has reported that Drug War might also start bronzing; Ip Man (locks up in some BD players; no replacement offered)

From Criterion



Quote:
Exchanging Defective Discs


We have confirmed that certain Blu-ray discs pressed at a replication facility that we used for a period in 2010 have become defective, showing a noticeable bronze discoloration on the underside and developing playback problems. We have confirmed the problem on seven titles, though not on all copies of those titles. All of these titles have since been re-pressed at a different pressing plant, and the vast majority of discs in circulation should not be affected.

The potentially affected Blu-ray titles are:

Howards End

M

Monsoon Wedding

Monterey Pop


Paris, Texas

Pierrot le fou

Ride with the Devil

The Seventh Seal

Summer Hours

Walkabout

If you have found that your Blu-ray copy of one of these titles does not play, please send your disc to the following address for a replacement:

Jon Mulvaney
The Criterion Collection
215 Park Avenue South
5th floor
New York, NY 10003

Please include only your disc—no packaging—along with the address to which you’d like us to mail your replacement. We will not be replacing or exchanging packaging. There is no need to email us in addition.

If we learn that other titles are similarly defective, we will add them to this list and continue to replace them as well.

Thank you for your patience and understanding

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Old 09-30-2014, 12:37 AM   #2
neo_reloaded neo_reloaded is online now
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.

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Old 09-30-2014, 12:40 AM   #3
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We absolutely need a new thread dedicated to all of them. Thanks for starting this one. I have a horrible feeling that this is only the start of something bad, bad, bad. This isn't just one or two titles, this is a whole slew of them. I'll paste what I just posted in the other thread...

Ok, this sucks a great deal. Thanks for making this thread and bringing it to my attention. I hate to say that I have horrible news. I just went through all of my titles and I found six that have noticeable browning/bronzing.

The titles included here are from my personal collection, and these are the ones I have found so far that are afflicted with this issue. The titles are...

-M (2010, first printing)
-Monsoon Wedding (2009, first printing)
-Paris, Texas (2009, first printing)
-Summer Hours (2010, first printing)
-Walkabout (2010, first printing)

None of the above titles will load in any Blu-ray player that I own. They are all completely and totally dead Blu-ray discs now. My copy of Days of Heaven (2010, first printing) also has the the browning/bronzing effect that is starting to show up, but as of right now that disc will still load in my player and I can fast forward through the entire movie.

What are the others that I need to check? I discovered the above only by doing a quick visual inspection. I haven't tested any other titles without noticeable browning/bronzing. Have any of you guys had any that didn't work but did not have a physical flaw?

I am beyond ticked off about this. I have five titles that flat out no longer load, one that is likely going to end up like this, and who knows on some of the other titles I have. I have tons of Criterion discs, and this is incredibly worrying to me.

Here are some pictures I took of the ones that will no longer play...











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Old 09-30-2014, 12:46 AM   #4
rdodolak rdodolak is online now
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I checked all of my Criterion discs and they all seem to be OK as of right now. If that happened to me I'd be pissed. I'm guessing the cover layer is interacting with the reflective layer is some manner.
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Old 09-30-2014, 12:46 AM   #5
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Hmm...I checked the six that I own from that list and the only one with a slight tint of brown seems to be Howard's End. I'll have to see how it plays.

Thanks for the list.
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Old 09-30-2014, 12:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdodolak View Post
I checked all of my Criterion discs and they all seem to be OK as of right now. If that happened to me I'd be pissed but I wonder if it's isolated to a few individuals and how they're handling/treating their discs.
If that's the case, then discs from other companies should also be failing, not just Criterions.
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Old 09-30-2014, 12:46 AM   #7
Dylan34 Dylan34 is offline
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Man that is horrible. I only have 3 or 4 Criterion titles and everything ok so far. Hopefully others in your situation will come together and email Criterion and see if they'll replace them. Criterion discs are expensive, or more expensive anyway.
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Old 09-30-2014, 12:47 AM   #8
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Oh man, this really sucks... For a premium label like Criterion not to manufacture their discs properly.

This is only the second case of systematic rot occuring on faulty discs I've heard of, other than Warner's DVDs and HDDVDs from 2005-07ish being faulty.

Does anyone know if Red Desert is affected by this (released Jun 22, 2010)? I want to order it. Or have all titles been corrected eventually and it's just the first prints that are rot prone?
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Old 09-30-2014, 12:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan34 View Post
Man that is horrible. I only have 3 or 4 Criterion titles and everything ok so far. Hopefully others in your situation will come together and email Criterion and see if they'll replace them. Criterion discs are expensive, or more expensive anyway.
They've ignored some of us for weeks.
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Old 09-30-2014, 12:48 AM   #10
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I hope my Dazed And Confused disc is not affected.
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Old 09-30-2014, 12:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jscoggins View Post
They've ignored some of us for weeks.
Why would they ignore you? Write to them in a calm and civilized manner and I'm sure they will reply. Be persistent but not annoying.
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Old 09-30-2014, 12:52 AM   #12
rdodolak rdodolak is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU View Post
Oh man, this really sucks... For a premium label like Criterion not to manufacture their discs properly.

This is only the second case of systematic rot occuring on faulty discs I've heard of, other than Warner's DVDs and HDDVDs from 2005-07ish being faulty.

Does anyone know if Red Desert is affected by this (released Jun 22, 2010)? I want to order it. Or have all titles been corrected eventually and it's just the first prints that are rot prone?
This has less to due with Criterion and more to due with how their replicator is manufacturing the disc. It could be that the materials used by the replicator were flawed/contaminated or their processes were substandard. However, since these are ultimately Criterion titles they're not absolved of the responsibility.
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Old 09-30-2014, 12:53 AM   #13
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I own 8 of those titles. None of them display what you're finding.
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Old 09-30-2014, 12:59 AM   #14
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I don't mean to ask questions that seem obvious, but were these stored near light or heat? Is there a smoker in the home?

I'll certainly check my M, Monsoon Wedding and Days of heaven when I get home tonight.
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Old 09-30-2014, 01:01 AM   #15
neo_reloaded neo_reloaded is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Luckard View Post
I don't mean to ask questions that seem obvious, but were these stored near light or heat? Is there a smoker in the home?

I'll certainly check my M, Monsoon Wedding and Days of heaven when I get home tonight.
To you and others who are just now seeing this issue: this is now well established, here and on other forums, as being a legitimate issue. This is not a case of one person mistreating their discs. Some percentage of copies of a number of Criterion-released titles from 2009 and 2010 (as far as we can tell thus far, at least) are affected.
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Old 09-30-2014, 01:03 AM   #16
octagon octagon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jett Rink View Post
Why would they ignore you?
To play devil's advocate, they could be (quite reasonably) worried that even an innocuous 'we're looking into it' would turn a few threads here and there into a full blown panic.
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Old 09-30-2014, 01:04 AM   #17
Brent L. Brent L. is offline
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This doesn't have anything to do with the consumers who bought them. This is a fault of the discs, and if you aren't seeing it you are apparently either lucky or have a different production run of them. All of the ones I have that are dealing with this are from the first printing, but it may be possible that ones from the same print run could be fine as well, depending on how that works.

These have been stored in a normal dark room, controlled environment, not around any heat, and from a non-smoking home. There is absolutely nothing that I have done that has caused this.
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Old 09-30-2014, 01:09 AM   #18
James Luckard James Luckard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo_reloaded View Post
To you and others who are just now seeing this issue: this is now well established, here and on other forums, as being a legitimate issue. This is not a case of one person mistreating their discs. Some percentage of copies of a number of Criterion-released titles from 2009 and 2010 (as far as we can tell thus far, at least) are affected.
Ah, I hadn't heard about it before. I'll definitely check my copies tonight.
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Old 09-30-2014, 01:12 AM   #19
captveg captveg is offline
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This is almost certainly going to turn out to be linked to a specific replication plant.
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Old 09-30-2014, 01:16 AM   #20
neo_reloaded neo_reloaded is online now
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I wonder... no replication plant is surviving solely on business from Criterion. What other companies have used this plant, and are those discs affected? Someone said Criterion was going through Image at that point - are Image discs from that period affected?
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