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Old 01-30-2015, 05:05 PM   #1
prerich prerich is offline
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I've been informed that PC's will not require new Blu-ray drives to playback 4k media/bluray. PC's will only need software that supports 4K (PowerDVD 14 already does this). So we have it then.....

HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 check (thanks Nvidia),
BD drive - check,
4k software support - check.

All we need to do is output video to a 4K compatible display and we are set (and we're ahead of the game there also...we have 5K monitors available from Dell just to name one).

This is one of the reasons I went totally PC folks - I figured the only thing I would need to upgrade was my display and video card!!! Software gets upgraded all the time so that's a wash.

The big thing is immersive audio and how that will be handled - will we have a softdecoder emerge? I think so. Loving the HTPC

Last edited by prerich; 01-30-2015 at 08:26 PM.
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Old 01-30-2015, 06:17 PM   #2
onyxbfly onyxbfly is offline
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I believe that they have crossed the stumbling block when it comes to atmos....

FFDShow can decode and play the atmos track.
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Win7c...ersion-history

If someone found a way to play SACD in the computer bluray drive everything would be golden. But if SACDs are not your thing then you good to go with a HTPC!!
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Old 01-30-2015, 08:28 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onyxbfly View Post
I believe that they have crossed the stumbling block when it comes to atmos....

FFDShow can decode and play the atmos track.
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Win7c...ersion-history

If someone found a way to play SACD in the computer bluray drive everything would be golden. But if SACDs are not your thing then you good to go with a HTPC!!
I would love to play SACD in a PC! However we can still play DSD and the other High Rez formats !!!!
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Old 01-31-2015, 08:23 AM   #4
stevo4264 stevo4264 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onyxbfly View Post
I believe that they have crossed the stumbling block when it comes to atmos....

FFDShow can decode and play the atmos track.
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Win7c...ersion-history


If someone found a way to play SACD in the computer bluray drive everything would be golden. But if SACDs are not your thing then you good to go with a HTPC!!

Yeah and if you read further down you will read about the adware installed as well, perhaps a link to the install without the adware?
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Old 02-02-2015, 04:24 PM   #5
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Even as a die hard PC fan I still find a good standalone player to be less of a hassle than trying to use a pc as a Blu-ray player.

I am a huge fan of my oppo 103 when I want 4k I just buy a new player and be done with it (and I do have SACD's so that's another big reason why I have a stand alone player)
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Old 02-02-2015, 04:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLindsay View Post
Even as a die hard PC fan I still find a good standalone player to be less of a hassle than trying to use a pc as a Blu-ray player.

I am a huge fan of my oppo 103 when I want 4k I just buy a new player and be done with it (and I do have SACD's so that's another big reason why I have a stand alone player)
With SACD...yes you will need a standalone, but as far as a hassle playing a BD...I basically just put the disc in and it plays the movie directly in my default player
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Old 02-02-2015, 08:21 PM   #7
onyxbfly onyxbfly is offline
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Originally Posted by stevo4264 View Post
Yeah and if you read further down you will read about the adware installed as well, perhaps a link to the install without the adware?
The last sentence says "Bundleware alert!" The installation is bundled with adware like browser toolbars, software offers, etc. Full description.

Its a shame that developers are going this route. Most freeware vendors do this and most freeware at give you the option of not installing it. Emphasis on most.

It really is a pain in the ass. Further down someone posted a link to using 7zip to unzip the installer and install it without the adware.
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Old 02-02-2015, 09:57 PM   #8
BLindsay BLindsay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prerich View Post
With SACD...yes you will need a standalone, but as far as a hassle playing a BD...I basically just put the disc in and it plays the movie directly in my default player
I found the amount of times a disc wouldn't play due to the software or having to wait for an update on the software to be more than I've ever had an issue with my oppo not playing a disc (which ive never had an issue with)

maybe its different now because its been a while but I found a standalone player just less of a hassle and found that the computer didn't really offer any advantage
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Old 02-03-2015, 12:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prerich View Post
I've been informed that PC's will not require new Blu-ray drives to playback 4k media/bluray.
A standard Bluray drive will read what it has been designed to read. Two layer discs with a specific mark length, track pitch and so forth.

If 4K Bluray comes on discs with different physical specs, your standard drive won't read it. Simple as that.

It's possible that a BDXL drive could read the disc if the geometrical specs match those of BDXL (which seems likely).
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Old 02-03-2015, 01:47 PM   #10
prerich prerich is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vargo View Post
A standard Bluray drive will read what it has been designed to read. Two layer discs with a specific mark length, track pitch and so forth.

If 4K Bluray comes on discs with different physical specs, your standard drive won't read it. Simple as that.

It's possible that a BDXL drive could read the disc if the geometrical specs match those of BDXL (which seems likely).
True - however, from what it seems - the physical specs will not change (from what I'm hearing). People thought that we would need 3D bluray players to do 3D...that turned out to be a crock of lies too just needed a 1.4 hdmi video card. My current drives (LG and a Buffalo) both support BDXL disc (although the 4K format can fit on 50gb disc). They would have to change the format drastically and force everyone to buy new players. If they do that - you would give more ammo to 4K Netflix (which is PC ready), I don't think they want to do that. Back to our scheduled program..... Simple as that
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Old 02-03-2015, 01:50 PM   #11
prerich prerich is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onyxbfly View Post
The last sentence says "Bundleware alert!" The installation is bundled with adware like browser toolbars, software offers, etc. Full description.

Its a shame that developers are going this route. Most freeware vendors do this and most freeware at give you the option of not installing it. Emphasis on most.

It really is a pain in the ass. Further down someone posted a link to using 7zip to unzip the installer and install it without the adware.
Yep, even Java does this (Ask toolbar etc)...I'm always warning people...READ BEFORE YOU CLICK!!!!
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Old 02-03-2015, 02:21 PM   #12
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P.S. You can get a BDXL capable drive for $44 dollars right now (and that's a burner)!
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Old 02-03-2015, 03:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prerich View Post
People thought that we would need 3D bluray players to do 3D...that turned out to be a crock of lies too
Im not interested in what 'people' did or didn't think since its outside of my control.

Im simply explaining the technical reality. With regards to track pitch, mark length, focus depth and so forth, an optical drive can read what it is designed to read. No amount of firmware updates will give it new optical or physical capabilities.

Your current drives are capable of support BDXL discs because they were designed to do so. If a UHD disc format happens to have identical track pitch etc. to BDXL, there is a possibility that your drive could read the disc. But only a slim possibility and more from a technical perspective rather than something that would actually happen.

Quote:
They would have to change the format drastically and force everyone to buy new players. If they do that - you would give more ammo to 4K Netflix (which is PC ready), I don't think they want to do that.
The entire point of new formats is to force people to buy new hardware.
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Old 02-03-2015, 06:25 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by vargo View Post

The entire point of new formats is to force people to buy new hardware.
Generally speaking ...yes, I agree with you. However when you have just come out of a format war (HD-DVD vs BD), with another one pending (DTS, Dolby, and Auro), I don't think you want to push buyers over the edge to streaming (which I personally didn't like....but I find myself doing more of it now).

The BD consortium must play this wisely if it is to succeed. There's a new animal out there...its called subscription based content and software. Microsoft is offering Windows 10 for free...for the first year. All of our business Microsoft software is now subscription based, even JRiver gets $20 a year from me if they make substantial upgrades to their software. A new disc format must first present itself as friendly before you can hook'em.

What I'm trying to stress that as it stands currently - the PC is the most 4K ready piece of gear out there. If you have the things mentioned in the original post - you are ready to receive 4K content from at least Netflix and any other means (other than 4K disc...if it changes its specs). As far as firmware updates...never had to update the firmware on any PC bluray hardware. The only updates were to my software, that's it.... only the software (player software or video card drivers).

Using the PC as my test bed (and ultimately it became my only source), I've been able to navigate changing technology with spending very little money, a lot of times...without spending any. Since dropping a standalone BD player, and for the past few years - a receiver, the only thing I've had to buy is an occasional piece of software. I have one active standalone BD player in my home ...and its basically used for Netflix for my wife (she likes the interface) we have yet to play a BD in it! We play all of our BD's on PC's. It seems like a good way to go if you are a techie.

I was in the buy a receiver every year club for a while and then I wised up. I calculated that every 1.5 years I would spend at least $1000 on a receiver! They've got you on the display - no getting around upgrading those. However, because I use a PC, I only spend about $76 to $200 on a video card - and that's only when something significant comes out (about 3 to 4 years so far...or if I just want one to get one).

That was a lot of coin for receivers (and if you calculate BD players - it gets higher). That's just too much equipment to keep buying. I've gotten rid of my cable service gear, TV all goes through PC's (and I can DVR on any TV). Got rid of my receiver - PC does everything and more than my old receiver (Onkyo 807). All I have is an abundance of power amps . I'm no longer pressed to buy gear. And with the Nvidia announcement - seems like I can look at 4K content sooner than later.

The only gear I'm ever pressed to buy is a Monitor/TV/Projector...and you can find deals on those - if you go the computer route. That's all I'm really trying to get across. Even "if" I do have to replace a piece of gear, it will be chump change compared to buying new consumer gear.
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:34 PM   #15
prerich prerich is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vargo View Post
Im not interested in what 'people' did or didn't think since its outside of my control.

Im simply explaining the technical reality. With regards to track pitch, mark length, focus depth and so forth, an optical drive can read what it is designed to read. No amount of firmware updates will give it new optical or physical capabilities.

Your current drives are capable of support BDXL discs because they were designed to do so. If a UHD disc format happens to have identical track pitch etc. to BDXL, there is a possibility that your drive could read the disc. But only a slim possibility and more from a technical perspective rather than something that would actually happen.



The entire point of new formats is to force people to buy new hardware.
One more thing for you ....take a look at this thread: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=257063

It seems than an overwhelming number of people don't want to buy new gear.
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Old 02-05-2015, 04:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prerich View Post
One more thing for you ....take a look at this thread: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=257063

It seems than an overwhelming number of people don't want to buy new gear.
No real surprise. The majority of people are not early adopters. Even on an enthusiast site. It wouldn't be called early adoption if everyone did it at the same time.
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Old 10-17-2015, 09:02 AM   #17
jeff_rigby jeff_rigby is offline
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Originally Posted by prerich View Post
I've been informed that PC's will not require new Blu-ray drives to playback 4k media/bluray. PC's will only need software that supports 4K (PowerDVD 14 already does this). So we have it then.....

HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 check (thanks Nvidia),
BD drive - check,
4k software support - check.

All we need to do is output video to a 4K compatible display and we are set (and we're ahead of the game there also...we have 5K monitors available from Dell just to name one).

This is one of the reasons I went totally PC folks - I figured the only thing I would need to upgrade was my display and video card!!! Software gets upgraded all the time so that's a wash.

The big thing is immersive audio and how that will be handled - will we have a softdecoder emerge? I think so. Loving the HTPC
AMD is using Xtensa processors for Codecs including HEVC and with a DSP block for True Audio which can also support multiple UHD blu-ray audio tracks. The Xtensa processors can also be used for Gesture control middleware and Voice key phrase turn-on and Voice recognition.

The XB1 and PS4 are using the same to support UHD blu-ray.
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Old 11-14-2015, 02:42 AM   #18
Jack Daniels Jack Daniels is offline
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So I am getting mixed messages from this thread.

We won't need to buy new 4K drives for our PCs? Or we will?
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Old 11-14-2015, 05:42 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Jack Daniels View Post
So I am getting mixed messages from this thread.

We won't need to buy new 4K drives for our PCs? Or we will?
It's complicated so maybe. The older the drive the less likely it is to work.
In 2010 it was revealed that modern Blu-Ray drives can use a hack to read 3 or 4 layer discs but that was based on the current 25GB layer not the new larger 33GB layer. It's unknown if that will make a difference.

In theory it should work and with firmware being easy to update on a PC features could be added to help this but that would depend on the age of the drive model and if that manufacturer cares about supporting their drives.
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Old 11-15-2015, 03:50 AM   #20
prerich prerich is offline
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It's complicated so maybe. The older the drive the less likely it is to work.
In 2010 it was revealed that modern Blu-Ray drives can use a hack to read 3 or 4 layer discs but that was based on the current 25GB layer not the new larger 33GB layer. It's unknown if that will make a difference.

In theory it should work and with firmware being easy to update on a PC features could be added to help this but that would depend on the age of the drive model and if that manufacturer cares about supporting their drives.
Generally we don't update firmware in PC drives - we update our programs (Power DVD etc). We'll see - there are a few BD drives that can read quad layer blu-ray disc.
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