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Old 02-01-2017, 02:42 PM   #981
chrislong2 chrislong2 is offline
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Originally Posted by mar3o View Post
Is there a comprehensive list of the mistakes/missing cuts/fades, etc. that exist on this blu-ray collection, spanning the different seasons?
I haven't seen one other than I did a partial one earlier this year (several pages back). I searched it up and modified to be more complete and up-to-date with what I know:

These are the issues I am aware of in all the remastered seasons:

- S1 episode "Family Quarrel" has the wrong subtitles (incorrectly had the Christmas episode subs) - subsequent pressings may have fixed this as they did issue a replacement disc shortly after S1 was released.
- S1 episode Country Girls is missing a ~20 second part where the Kennedy boy reads his summer poem
- S1 episode "Child of Pain" is seemingly missing about 1 minute (scenes unknown)
- S1 episode "To See the World" is seemingly missing about 1 minute (scenes unknown)
- S2 episode "Remember Me Pt 1" ends abruptly with new overlaid "to be continued" type notice.
- S3 episode "Little Women" contains an unusual edit at 9:54 and is missing a few seconds of footage.
- S3 episode "Gold Country" is possibly missing about 4 minutes of footage. Over the entire 9 season run, every 2-parter episode (whether shown in 2-parts or in 1-part on the Blu) comes out with known footage to be about 96-97 minutes. Except for Gold Country. That one clocks in only at about 92min. So unless NBC did something really strange for that showing that they didn't do with any of the others, there appears to be missing ~4 minutes of footage. I did a brief comparison with the old Imavision version but didn't notice any additional footage on it (it's slightly more edited and was time-compressed). But I'd bet the broadcast had additional footage. The only other explanation I can think of is if somehow this episode was sourced from a PAL master (with its 4% speedup) as 4% of 96 minutes comes out to almost 4 minutes.
- S6 episode "Whatever Happened to the Class of '56" is possibly missing about 15 seconds (scenes unknown)
- S6 episode "Darkness is My Friend" is possibly missing about 30 seconds (scenes unknown).
- S7 "Divorce, Walnut Grove Style" is missing 3 minutes (an additional glass scene among others)
- S7 subtitles are a bit off. Not a huge deal for the most part, but annoying and occasionally a bigger issue depending on the timing of dialogue in a scene.
- S7 French/Spanish audio is noticeably not synced up with the video. Hopefully this has been corrected for future pressings, but this is unknown.
- S7 in general doesn't look quite as good as previous seasons and some of the episodes are rather faded looking, but this appears to be a source issue
- S7 & S8 audio was mastered too high and the audio thus produces "clipping" sometimes which can lead to annoying artifacts in the audio
- S9 "Home Again" episode appears is listed as one episode but in reality they split into 2 parts and put credits in the middle and then CUT OUT a whopping 3:45 of the show or thereabouts that originally was on the old Imavision DVD release at the end of Part 1. On the new remaster, Part 1 ends with Albert planning to substitute morphine. On the old release, there's a whole scene with him then delivering medical supplies to Doc Baker who examines the contents of the box and then tells a nervous Albert where to find the key that he can use anytime he wants to come in and read his medical books. Then Albert runs off and has an interaction with Charles & Mr. Edwards and then goes back to his room.
- Movie "The Last Farewell" - in the final triumphant scene capping the entire series as a whole where the townpeople are singing a triumphant hymn, the English audio was mixed incorrectly and you can barely hear them singing. The Spanish/French audio do not have this problem (the song is in English and there's no further dialog so one can alternatively just switch tracks when the townspeople start singing).
- Movie "Bless All The Dear Children" is possibly missing somewhere between 10 and 40 seconds (scenes unknown). Based solely on runtime between old NTSC and new (after factoring in different length logos/credits) it appears to be missing 40 seconds, however when I tried to locate any missing scenes, I couldn't and came to the conclusion that part of this may simply be because the old one had conversion issues where duplicate frames were added or whatnot that over time accounted for much of this. However, even with that, the runtime still is 10 seconds shy of the times of the other 2 movies (and this one was actually the middle one of the 3 produced) so I find it hard to believe that it was supposed to be 10 seconds shorter. So my guess is this is missing at least 10 seconds of footage somewhere that I just didn't catch.

With all that said, nobody new reading this should be confused: In the big picture, the remasters are still way better than what was previously out there.

Last edited by chrislong2; 02-23-2017 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 02-01-2017, 09:43 PM   #982
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Originally Posted by chrislong2 View Post

I'm sure by quality you meant all unedited, because the actual audio and video quality on those old PAL dvd's isn't nearly as good as the HD remasters on the Blu-rays (they also of course, being PAL, are sped up).
No I meant they were better quality than the original US dvd's. In some cases by a huge amount but it varied.

As for a breakdown of differences: for that you'd need a full set of the US Blurays, the US Imavision discs and the PAL dvd's ( bar menus the Dutch and UK editions seem to be the same).

I'm in the UK and my understanding was that back in the day shows got cut for syndication not extended so the theory about syndicated versions being responsible for these longer scenes doesn't add up.
My UK experience of watching US shows over the years was the definitive version was the original broadcast and changes and edits came later on.
With only a few exceptions syndicated versions didn't get shown in the UK

What is clear is that a full set of totally uncut pristine broadcast versions does not exist so they've made the best of what they could access without going the whole hog and returning to the negatives- but who knows if a full set of those exists either
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Old 02-01-2017, 11:49 PM   #983
chrislong2 chrislong2 is offline
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Originally Posted by timeschange View Post
No I meant they were better quality than the original US dvd's. In some cases by a huge amount but it varied.
Gotcha. Agreed - I didn't have the PAL DVD's but the consensus is indeed that they were better than the old Imavision NTSC ones.

As for the edits: My understanding was that this show was NOT cut from the broadcast master for international syndication. It's been a while since I ran across the technical info on all of this, but here is the way I remember reading it: When the show was produced, an original master was created and then a copy of that was sent to NBC. NBC might have trimmed a scene or want something changed for actual broadcast. What NBC finalized is the "broadcast master". Thus there was the original master and then the broadcast master. When the show was syndicated, there were U.S. syndication copies produced from the broadcast master, but international syndication for some reason I can't remember went back to the original non-broadcast master. Because of this, sometimes there were discrepancies between the two. This is how we ended up in like a situation shown in the following clip, where an early international syndicated version of The Lord is My Shepherd had a scene that the U.S. version did not (the international syndicated version was subsequently updated to match the U.S. one in not having that scene). (this scene was recorded off a french TV airing and also is apparently not on any PAL DVD release)
I have read/seen other examples too that I can't recall specifics on at the moment where a scene might be slightly longer or shorter in the international vs. U.S. broadcast version.

Last edited by chrislong2; 02-02-2017 at 01:59 AM.
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Old 02-02-2017, 12:24 AM   #984
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That's why I said that "Home Again" is probably correct. They may have put it together as two episodes, and NBC changed it to a two-hour show. The master (what we have on blu-ray) was sent to NBC, who simply snipped the mid-show credits.
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Old 02-02-2017, 01:56 AM   #985
chrislong2 chrislong2 is offline
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That's why I said that "Home Again" is probably correct. They may have put it together as two episodes, and NBC changed it to a two-hour show. The master (what we have on blu-ray) was sent to NBC, who simply snipped the mid-show credits.
No, there's no way Home Again is correct. What we have on Blu-ray is supposed to be the broadcast master (what NBC aired). While NBC could have been sent both parts separately and put both parts together for airing (I don't honestly know what they did - there's conflicting reports), the previous U.S. syndicated edits originally taken from the NBC broadcast master have the missing scene in it, meaning it was a scene that was originally broadcast. Further, that was not be a scene they would remove for the broadcast because as mentioned it ties in significantly even with the ending of the show (because the end of the show emphasizes Albert becoming a doctor and that scene plays into Albert studying medicine.) It's also just plain an awkward cut on the new remaster. Whether the episode was originally broadcast in 2 parts (even back to back) with credits or as 1 part, it contained the scene which now is not on the new sets. The credits in the middle don't bother me as much as the missing scene. It confused me when I re-watched the new version because there's a reference later on you don't fully get without that scene.

Last edited by chrislong2; 02-02-2017 at 02:01 AM.
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Old 02-02-2017, 02:23 AM   #986
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There would have been a producer's cut (used again for syndication) and the version delivered to NBC (what we have.) Just because the version delivered to NBC was the last cut doesn't mean NBC didn't change some things before they aired it. They had final approval since they were producers of the show. Things often change at the last minute (literally) in television. The missing scene was part of the rough cut, didn't make it to the airing, and was put in for the syndicated two-part version. It is reaching a bit to claim that the film was damaged for that scene....that would be a weird coincidence having the only damaged part the entire last scene of the episode. At any rate, all of "Little House" was transferred to vhs for syndication in the 1980s so what we have is most likely all that exists on film now. I know several collectors and owners of off-the-air versions from NBC. I will see if they have this particular episode, and we can put this one to rest.....hopefully!

BTW, do you know the running time of the missing scene....thereabouts?

Last edited by moviebuff75; 02-02-2017 at 02:34 AM.
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Old 02-02-2017, 03:15 AM   #987
chrislong2 chrislong2 is offline
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Originally Posted by moviebuff75 View Post
There would have been a producer's cut (used again for syndication) and the version delivered to NBC (what we have.)
I don't think what we have is the version delivered to NBC. What I referred to as broadcast master is the "master" after NBC made any cuts - it's the final broadcast version. (I originally worded it poorly in my explanation above, but that's what I meant). If that wasn't the case then the original production master and the broadcast master would be identical, which they weren't as can be proved by the syndication versions. The version of eps we have on Blu-ray is post any NBC-cuts. I am less-certain, but still have high confidence, that I recall reading one of the producers/assistants saying that the U.S. syndication prints were taken from the broadcast master (and thus post-NBC cuts too), while the international syndication prints were taken from production master (pre-NBC cuts).

Quote:
Originally Posted by moviebuff75 View Post
BTW, do you know the running time of the missing scene....thereabouts?
Unfortunately I got rid of my old S9 set before I knew of this problem but I recall it being about a minute. But I could be off.

As for damaged film, I didn't say that was the case, I just offered that up as a possible explanation. Same for what they did on S2's Remember Me where they obviously had some reason to create newly generated titles and the most logical explanation is that something was wrong with the original. It's entirely possible that the film was damaged at that point in the ep on S9 so they just made a hard cut. Have you watched Home Again on the new? It's a very abrupt ending for part 1 and clearly not as was originally intended...It's very hard to believe it was broadcast that way (irrespective of the fact that as mentioned, the scene isn't a throw-away scene but actually is semi-important for scenes after). I don't know of any 70's/80's shows that ended an episode with a hard-cut like that with no warning or cues (music or otherwise) that it was ending.

Last edited by chrislong2; 02-02-2017 at 03:22 AM.
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Old 02-02-2017, 10:21 AM   #988
chrislong2 chrislong2 is offline
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Okay, well, it's actually worse than I thought. I was able to examine the old version of the S9 Home Again episode (Imavision version) tonight. There is a whopping approximately 3:45 missing from the new remaster of Home Again that was on the old disc! The scene that I thought was just a minute actually extends beyond that into several other scenes, all of which are cut out on the new remaster. I knew there was a reason why when I watched the new remaster last year it seemed not as complete and didn't feel right.

They however added 3 minutes to the scenes between Charles & the city shopkeeper and extended a discussion between Albert & Charles, which weren't on the old Imavision release. But when they reached 48:20 (the same as the other S9 episodes), they literally just cut it off and then rolled the credits and picked up for Part 2.

On the new remaster, Part 1 comes out to about 49:00 and part 2 comes out to about 45:00, thus showing the missing minutes there. Whether the missing minutes were supposed to be at the end of Part 1 (like the old Imavision release) or at the start of Part 2, one way or the other, they are completely missing now.

So not only is it clearly not as broadcast, but it's a lot worse than I thought it was - on the level of the S7 Divorce episode screwup (except in that case I didn't care as much cause I never liked that episode much - this one I do!). I wish I knew the team that remastered this, cause I'd love to know what in the world happened.

Last edited by chrislong2; 02-04-2017 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 02-02-2017, 09:24 PM   #989
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I think its clear that Home Again is not correct because of the bodged image quality where the recap and incidental credits for Part 2 are sd quality in comparison and the quality instantly goes back up once they return to the episode proper.

We will just have to hang on now and see what , if anything, happens regarding a Bluray release elsewhere.
My guess is these HD restorations will be the definitive versions in 1080 for broadcast too
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Old 02-04-2017, 07:39 AM   #990
chrislong2 chrislong2 is offline
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Another episode that I would bet large amounts on is also edited from what was broadcast is S3's "Gold Country", though it is less edited than what appeared on the Imavision release (I found at least one brief, minor scene extension on the new).

Over the entire 9 season run, every 2-parter episode (whether shown in 2-parts or in 1-part on the Blu) comes out timewise to about 1:36-1:37. Except for Gold Country. That one clocks in only at about 1:32. So unless NBC did something really strange for that showing that they didn't do with any of the others, there appears to be missing ~4 minutes of footage. I did a brief comparison with the old Imavision version but didn't notice any additional footage on it (it's slightly more edited and was time-compressed). But I'd bet the broadcast had additional footage.

Could someone who has the old PAL dvd's check runtime?

Last edited by chrislong2; 02-20-2017 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:28 AM   #991
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Can I just clarify something... despite Bless All the Dear Children appearing on the Season 9 disc should I be watching it before The Last Farewell found on Season 8?

P.S Why does the title of this thread say Seasons 1-10?!
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:04 AM   #992
chrislong2 chrislong2 is offline
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Can I just clarify something... despite Bless All the Dear Children appearing on the Season 9 disc should I be watching it before The Last Farewell found on Season 8?
Yes. Although most of Bless All The Dear Children takes place outside of Walnut Grove, it still should be watched first given what happens in Last Farewell. Lionsgate goofed by putting it on S9 - those that made those decisions obviously don't know the show but just went based on broadcast order. NBC broadcasted it out of order much later the following Christmas presumably because it has a Christmas-related theme, but it clearly was not supposed to be that way. But none of the movies should have really been on S8 set either since they all take place after the S9 storyline. They really should have put them all as extras on S9, but I'm sure they split it up because they wanted to offer supposed extra value for both sets by having "extras" for both.

Quote:
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P.S Why does the title of this thread say Seasons 1-10?!
It was changed a month or two ago from S6-9 to S1-10. I don't know the reason why, but I suspect it was to try to put all the future LHOP discussions into this thread regardless of season. As for why it says "10": There's only 9 seasons but some people count the movies as S10 (though that is incorrect - there was NO season 10). So I don't know who made that decision or why they changed it since there are individual threads for each of the other LHOP seasons from 1 to 5 and then there was this one for 6-9. But whatever.
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Old 03-26-2017, 07:37 PM   #993
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Just watching "The Lord is My Shepherd" and noticed a continuity error in the fact that the school/church is missing its bell!

Having checked Wikipedia I can see that this double episode has an earlier production number and was filmed prior to "The Voice of Tinker Jones".
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Old 03-27-2017, 01:46 AM   #994
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Just watching "The Lord is My Shepherd" and noticed a continuity error in the fact that the school/church is missing its bell!

Having checked Wikipedia I can see that this double episode has an earlier production number and was filmed prior to "The Voice of Tinker Jones".
Nice catch!
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Old 05-07-2017, 12:11 AM   #995
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There have the whole series on sale on VUDU for $20.00 today.
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Old 05-07-2017, 08:47 PM   #996
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Originally Posted by mantle52ball View Post
There have the whole series on sale on VUDU for $20.00 today.
This is the link for those that need it ==> http://www.vudu.com/movies/#!content...Edition-Bundle
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:10 PM   #997
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Assuming this VUDU thing is a streaming service, what happens when they no longer have the rights to the show? They're not going to have it forever are they?
Are you able to download it?
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:58 PM   #998
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Assuming this VUDU thing is a streaming service, what happens when they no longer have the rights to the show? They're not going to have it forever are they?
Are you able to download it?
Yes, you can download the entire series if you like.
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Old 05-07-2017, 10:04 PM   #999
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Yes, you can download the entire series if you like.
And can it be moved to different devices?
I would always view on my tv , never a tablet or small screen device so how would I go about that?
Presumably you'd download it via PC but then you would need to move it and some of these services restrict viewing to the services own video player making it impossible to watch elsewhere
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Old 05-07-2017, 10:52 PM   #1000
erlinmeyer erlinmeyer is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammerman2. View Post
And can it be moved to different devices?
I would always view on my tv , never a tablet or small screen device so how would I go about that?
Presumably you'd download it via PC but then you would need to move it and some of these services restrict viewing to the services own video player making it impossible to watch elsewhere
How much memory does your TV have for downloads? I put mine on computers and then play them back using an HDMI cable if streaming isn't feasible because all my HDTVs don't have the storage for downloads. Also once it is on my computers or Network Attached Storage, I can view it using DNLA as well
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