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Old 06-24-2016, 03:09 AM   #801
jarrod_inf jarrod_inf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismac87 View Post
Actually they sure did when all they did was download a torrent of the film. Doesn't matter if it's restored, but if there's a FILM VERSION sitting in a vault at the studio they licensed the film from, yeah, it's lazy not to ask for that or ask if it exists. They just went and downloaded it.

Oh yeah it's stacked alright, of previously issued material. They did TWO new features for this release, everything else - pre-existing. Oh yeah one more commentary, sorry, three things. Meanwhile a film like TCM 2 gets a glorious 2 disc special edition with additional content in abundance. But ROTLD, naw, that gets, ya know, stuff.

Sure the new 2K scan is great, I believe I even said that, and I'm not sure where I said my version was definitive for the workprint - BUT IT'S NOT COMPRESSED TO HELL EITHER! In motion it looks like you're watching a blown up YouTube video in 360p. Sure it's a supplemental feature and to be honest everyone here is making a bigger deal about it than I am - but mostly because I actually worked on a few releases with this company and I know how they view things.

Want a fine example? Sure, why not right? Y'all remember the "New 2.0 Stereo" mix on the NIGHT OF THE DEMONS disc? You ever happen to notice anything, I dunno, odd about that mix? Watch the end scene, when Judy is going over the wall and the demons are grabbing her, notice something off? How about the looping eh? Where she's saying Rodger's name, but her mouth isn't moving. Wanna know why that is? Because when MGM had the film, they were missing audio elements from the unrated version. So what did they do? They looped music to fill in gaps of silence. You wanna know what audio element Scream was given and DIDN'T question? That one. Wanna know why? Because they rushed the **** out of that release just as they have been doing with almost every release they've put together in the last two years. The ONLY reason the 5.1 and "original 2.0" mix were included was because I said something. They didn't even know something was off, yet they claim to be die hard fans of the film.

Yeah. Okay.

So before you come at me with all this you know better than me shit, take a step back and roll your eyes at someone else. I'm an even tempered person but this release is a mish-mash of previous existing material with a shiny new transfer and that's pretty much it. The new stuff covers a lot of the same ground as other material does so it's about as useful as tits on a frog.

Good lord it's a wonder anyone is never allowed to have an opinion around here.
I actually appreciate someone discussing the actual CONTENT rather than packaging (yes I like packaging but it's already been done to death in here). Opinions keep this site interesting and flowing. I may not agree with all the points made but he just added some life to this thread.
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Old 06-24-2016, 03:26 AM   #802
Val Lewton Val Lewton is offline
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Originally Posted by chrismac87 View Post
Oh and for the guy who said it wasn't cropped. Please see below. Same shot, two different sources. Scream's version on the disc and a version from Cinemageddon. Hrm.



Why! Look at that!? Video noise in the exact same spots!? Oh and can you see more to the left, right and bottom too? Not much is cropped but just enough to get that video noise out eh? Yeah again, they just downloaded this. That's the part that irks me because there was and still is a better alternative than resorting to that. But what do I know?
I never said it wasn't cropped because I didn't even get around to watching it yet. I said the caps you provided weren't cropped.

Secondly, you bought this with the understanding that the workprint was an SD extra just like I did. You're acting shocked that you got an SD workprint extra...

You're also acting disappointed at the amount of extras, new or ported over from previous releases. Did you not read what was on the disc before you spent the money?
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Old 06-24-2016, 03:31 AM   #803
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I can't imagine why anyone would watch to sit through an awful-looking workprint version of a movie to begin with. Scream adding this kind of stuff to their releases (a la the TV Version of The Thing) is little more than a curiosity to me.
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Old 06-24-2016, 03:36 AM   #804
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Originally Posted by Monterey Jack View Post
I can't imagine why anyone would watch to sit through an awful-looking workprint version of a movie to begin with. Scream adding this kind of stuff to their releases (a la the TV Version of The Thing) is little more than a curiosity to me.
The inclusion of workprints and tv versions are an excellent way to pad a release and preserve material that would otherwise be lost to time. I am always ecstatic when releases include these features as it ensures that they will live on well into the future and not become lost to time. With that said they aren't something I watch regularly. There's a lot to be said about companies willing to save and preserve features, trailers, outtakes, specials, alt. cuts etc. I would rather pay an extra dollar or two and get everything possible then to get a release that is missing these same things.

I have most (if not all) of the entire run of TNT Monstervision films/specials burned to disc for this very reason. I can't imagine ever wanting to sit down to watch a vhs rip of a film I own on Blu Ray, but the nostalgia runs high on that show so I'm happy to have all of them for when I do feel like revisiting the show.
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Old 06-24-2016, 03:38 AM   #805
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Same here. I love seeing stuff preserved even if the quality is poor.
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Old 06-24-2016, 03:39 AM   #806
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I get why people don't care about the workprint, but I don't get why people that don't care about the workprint get furious if anyone else doesn't like that workprint they don't care about. If Scream really did what Chris says and downloaded a torrent and DNR/Smoothed it and stuck it on a disc, he's right to be annoyed if he cares very much about that feature. If you DON'T care about that feature and don't care about the quality of it, why do you care about posts about it?

Most of the angry posts here are coming from people who are essentially saying "WHO CARES IF IT SUCKS, YOU'RE SUCH A WHINER." I'm in the "who cares if it sucks" boat, but also hate when good posters with good information are chased off by people that aren't interested in technical details of anything and just want to keep the thread as un-critical as possible. It's so frustrating seeing people trying to have any talk they don't like removed from the site just because they don't like it, not because it's without value. Ignore his posts if you hate them so much, you don't need to try and loudly shout them down like this thread is a political rally.

Good posts with good information presented coherently are what should be aimed for in threads, not two sentence opinions that contribute zero new information which turn threads into an echo chamber. His stuff was all about THE DISC and the content on it, while most posts complaining about his posts aren't about the disc, aren't about the content, and are just worthless except to the "burn the witch" brigade. Argh.
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Old 06-24-2016, 03:41 AM   #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleHBK View Post
I have most (if not all) of the entire run of TNT Monstervision films/specials burned to disc for this very reason. I can't imagine ever wanting to sit down to watch a vhs rip of a film I own on Blu Ray, but the nostalgia runs high on that show so I'm happy to have all of them for when I do feel like revisiting the show.
Wow, did you tape all those yourself? And are you just talking about the Joe Bob Briggs era? I found a bunch of Joe Bob Briggs "episodes" on the net a long time ago, but it sure wasn't comprehensive. I would love to have that Godzillafest '95 (or whatever year it was that they aired all the movies that had the new VHS editions and had the great Blue Oyster Cult ad for it), for example.
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Old 06-24-2016, 03:46 AM   #808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismac87 View Post
So before you come at me with all this you know better than me shit, take a step back and roll your eyes at someone else. I'm an even tempered person but this release is a mish-mash of previous existing material with a shiny new transfer and that's pretty much it. The new stuff covers a lot of the same ground as other material does so it's about as useful as tits on a frog.

Good lord it's a wonder anyone is never allowed to have an opinion around here.
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Old 06-24-2016, 03:47 AM   #809
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Originally Posted by TripleHBK View Post
The inclusion of workprints and tv versions are an excellent way to pad a release and preserve material that would otherwise be lost to time. I am always ecstatic when releases include these features as it ensures that they will live on well into the future and not become lost to time. With that said they aren't something I watch regularly. There's a lot to be said about companies willing to save and preserve features, trailers, outtakes, specials, alt. cuts etc. I would rather pay an extra dollar or two and get everything possible then to get a release that is missing these same things.
Hey, if you get any pleasure out of this stuff, more power to you, and I'm glad Scream is digging up and preserving this stuff for those who want it. For me, these kind of workprint and TV versions are like that slimy little cup of coleslaw you get with your meal in restaurants. I don't ask for it, I'll never eat it, but it's always there. The TV version of The Thing I might sit through once just to suss out the scraps of additional/alternate footage, but I'll probably never sit through it in entirety again.
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Old 06-24-2016, 03:51 AM   #810
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Originally Posted by Val Lewton View Post
Sorry, but the caps you posted are not cropped. To my eyes what's on Scream's disc looks better than your bootleg.

This is a workprint after all, I'm not sure what you were expecting in the first place.
Says it right there my friend. The caps are the same, maybe sans for the one shot with Tina - didn't get that one exact but to say the caps aren't cropped means the transfer isn't, i.e. you said it wasn't cropped.

I knew what to expect and frankly I haven't shit on any of that. The biggest inclusion on this disc for fans was the workprint. They have been begging for it for years and never got it until now. Some fans are buying this release SOLELY for the inclusion of that extra because they want to see a better generation copy of it. Scream never said where the workprint was coming from and given that none of the cast/crew knew of this release until it was announced, it was easy to figure out how they went about getting it. I had hoped I was wrong but again seeing it in motion, unfortunately I was right.

To be honest everyone here has made a bigger issue than I have about the workprint when all I did was mention that it wasn't any better than what was out there and to my eyes appears to be worse due to cropping/digital smoothing and the audio being muffled. To some fans that extra was worth the price tag and possibly more of a deciding factor than a new scan or other extras. So yes it was worthwhile for me to mention it and say the quality wasn't any better than what anyone else already had. Especially considering the opportunity Scream apparently had to get a better copy. Even if they got the 2nd generation tape version from one of the actors or went to MGM and got it from them; it would've been preferred even if it was a smidgen better than it was now because at the very least; it would've been better than what fans have had access to for many years.

Last edited by chrismac87; 06-24-2016 at 04:11 AM.
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Old 06-24-2016, 03:53 AM   #811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cakefactory View Post
Wow, did you tape all those yourself? And are you just talking about the Joe Bob Briggs era? I found a bunch of Joe Bob Briggs "episodes" on the net a long time ago, but it sure wasn't comprehensive. I would love to have that Godzillafest '95 (or whatever year it was that they aired all the movies that had the new VHS editions and had the great Blue Oyster Cult ad for it), for example.
I had a collection years ago that I had taped myself, but the stuff I have now I found online. It's 117 episodes plus an additional 15 bonus extras. The collection appears to be missing around 30 episodes or so. But yeah, all the Hoe Bob Briggs stuff. To be honest sometimes when I'm messing around on my desktop I'll turn on some of the films just to listen to the Joe Bob Segments. If there was one thing I'd love to see added to all these Scream/Arrow/etc releases, it would be restored versions of the Joe Bob intros outros and bumpers. In some cases those were more entertaining than the films themselves.
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Old 06-24-2016, 04:01 AM   #812
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Originally Posted by TripleHBK View Post
I had a collection years ago that I had taped myself, but the stuff I have now I found online. It's 117 episodes plus an additional 15 bonus extras. The collection appears to be missing around 30 episodes or so. But yeah, all the Hoe Bob Briggs stuff. To be honest sometimes when I'm messing around on my desktop I'll turn on some of the films just to listen to the Joe Bob Segments. If there was one thing I'd love to see added to all these Scream/Arrow/etc releases, it would be restored versions of the Joe Bob intros outros and bumpers. In some cases those were more entertaining than the films themselves.
I think I must have gotten the same ones you did off the net, I got three large packs of them a long time ago that I think probably added up to that same number.

Yeah, his segments were definitely more interesting than the films sometimes. I remember sitting through all kinds of crap just because he was hosting, like when he did most of the Friday the 13th movies one year (obviously all censored to heck). They also greatly increased my enjoyment of some weird films I ended up liking a lot, like I still vividly remember seeing him do "Razorback" when I was about 12 years old...all the stuff about Redneck Goonie Brothers and kangaroo slaughterhouses and whatnot that he'd talk up in the breaks just made me look at the movie in ways I wouldn't have otherwise. What a classic. I think I need to order that Aussie blu-ray right now!

It's tragic that things like that are just going to languish in TNT's vault forever. It's not like they're ever going to do anything with them, so I dunno why they wouldn't allow people to license them for discs. It's never happened of course, so I wonder if no one's asked, or if for some reason I don't understand TNT won't do it.

I watch some movies for the first time on those crappy VHS rips. The picture is terrible and the films are censored, but when I'm watching something like Project Metalbeast: DNA OVERLOAD, Joe Bob Briggs is going to increase my enjoyment a lot more than decent picture. And of course, anything I'm familiar with, I've skipped around in those files to see everything he had to say about it.
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Old 06-24-2016, 04:22 AM   #813
Val Lewton Val Lewton is offline
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Originally Posted by cakefactory View Post
It's so frustrating seeing people trying to have any talk they don't like removed from the site just because they don't like it, not because it's without value. Ignore his posts if you hate them so much, you don't need to try and loudly shout them down like this thread is a political rally.

Good posts with good information presented coherently are what should be aimed for in threads, not two sentence opinions that contribute zero new information which turn threads into an echo chamber. His stuff was all about THE DISC and the content on it, while most posts complaining about his posts aren't about the disc, aren't about the content, and are just worthless except to the "burn the witch" brigade. Argh.

I don't think anyone is trying to shut him down, cakefactory. I know I'm certainly not.

I just quickly popped on my bonus disc to check the workprint, and it's crappy alright...but so is every other version I've seen. So is every version that's still in existence. The Scream disc has this preceding it:



I'm not a Shout sycophant. I certainly don't go around defending them on every complaint. In fact, I don't think I ever have. But the problem with people mercilessly nitpicking things that are out of a labels control is that it makes the label(and other labels) less likely to provide these cool odds-and-ends SD extras to avoid all the complaining.
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Old 06-24-2016, 04:30 AM   #814
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Originally Posted by Val Lewton View Post
I don't think anyone is trying to shut him down, cakefactory. I know I'm certainly not.

I just quickly popped on my bonus disc to check the workprint, and it's crappy alright...but so is every other version I've seen. So is every version that's still in existence. The Scream disc has this preceding it:



I'm not a Shout sycophant. I certainly don't go around defending them on every complaint. In fact, I don't think I ever have. But the problem with people mercilessly nitpicking things that are out of a labels control is that it makes the label(and other labels) less likely to provide these cool odds-and-ends SD extras to avoid all the complaining.
The funny part was I wasn't nitpicking, even slightly, again, that's an extra I knew people were curious about so it was worth mentioning. People asked for screenshots, I shared em'. I got shit for sharing em' and saying the version floating around the net to me looks better, and I still stand by that. Perhaps the encode is bad and this is just a newer generation copy of the same version that's been floating around but it's not even necessarily the quality of the workprint itself I really think is anything to go nuts over. It's that it is compressed; poorly. Even as a standard definition extra it should've looked a little bit better than it does.

I'd like to think that any level of complaining would influence a company like Scream to simply do better, but I know and you do as well I'm sure, in the long run - it does not matter. They will continue with their business as I will continue with mine. The only company that gets muffed about fans complaining is Code Red, everyone else seems to let it roll of their backs and not stress it. The industry term "It's the way it is" has been repeated multiple times for several releases; doubtful it will change now.

Again, several cast members have said they have a better version of the workprint, plus the studio supposedly has it on film and on VHS as well which I'm sure would be a 1st generation copy. I actually found the workprint for NIGHT OF THE DEMONS when working on the extras on film and when we presented it to Scream, they just said they weren't interested. If it was on VHS they might've taken a look at it but they didn't want any film elements that weren't digitized. Not to mention we also offered the original stereo M&E tracks so they can make a real 5.1 track, but instead used the old Anchor Bay DVD audio, again - they just were not interested in going the extra mile. So I can imagine the lengths they went to in regards to finding the best version in this case.

But, I'll hit the old safeguard; "It is what it is" and this is what we got. Like I said before hopefully someone, someday will grab this film and give it all the bells and whistles it deserves. Scream got close, not doubt, but still, not 100% there. Not for me anyways.

Last edited by chrismac87; 06-24-2016 at 04:37 AM.
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Old 06-24-2016, 04:31 AM   #815
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Originally Posted by Val Lewton View Post
I don't think anyone is trying to shut him down, cakefactory. I know I'm certainly not.

I'm not a Shout sycophant. I certainly don't go around defending them on every complaint. In fact, I don't think I ever have. But the problem with people mercilessly nitpicking things that are out of a labels control is that it makes the label(and other labels) less likely to provide these cool odds-and-ends SD extras to avoid all the complaining.
Well, to your first point, RIGHT after I made that post someone made a post that said something like "Shut up already, it's just a workprint, WHO CARES," but I guess he thought better and merely edited it to another snarky eyeroll. There's some other ra-ra stuff in the last few pages, too. You clearly are not on that level!

You might be right about the dangers of complaining about features. It's hard to balance trying to get them to do a good job with something vs just ticking them off. They have a history of just sorta getting pissed and not fixing things. Ex, the many, many months of encoding complaints they never responded to, causing escalation, and eventually leading to them just blocking people on Facebook for, and the audio issues mentioned earlier on such releases as Night of the Demons. So, unfortunately, calling them on what appears to be misinformation about where the workprint was going to come for might just make them flip the table. Who knows. If he's just posting it in this thread, though, it's not like they read these forums, so he's just providing info for any other superfans in the same boat as him who that wanted to know about the workprint.
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Old 06-24-2016, 04:36 AM   #816
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Originally Posted by chrismac87 View Post
But, I'll hit the old safeguard; "It is what it is" and this is what we got. Like I said before hopefully someone, someday will grab this film and give it all the bells and whistles it deserves. Scream got close, not doubt, but still, not 100% there. Not for me anyways.
Fair enough.
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Old 06-24-2016, 04:49 AM   #817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismac87 View Post
The funny part was I wasn't nitpicking, even slightly, again, that's an extra I knew people were curious about so it was worth mentioning. People asked for screenshots, I shared em'. I got shit for sharing em' and saying the version floating around the net to me looks better, and I still stand by that. Perhaps the encode is bad and this is just a newer generation copy of the same version that's been floating around but it's not even necessarily the quality of the workprint itself I really think is anything to go nuts over. It's that it is compressed; poorly. Even as a standard definition extra it should've looked a little bit better than it does.

I'd like to think that any level of complaining would influence a company like Scream to simply do better, but I know and you do as well I'm sure, in the long run - it does not matter. They will continue with their business as I will continue with mine. The only company that gets muffed about fans complaining is Code Red, everyone else seems to let it roll of their backs and not stress it. The industry term "It's the way it is" has been repeated multiple times for several releases; doubtful it will change now.

Again, several cast members have said they have a better version of the workprint, plus the studio supposedly has it on film and on VHS as well which I'm sure would be a 1st generation copy. I actually found the workprint for NIGHT OF THE DEMONS when working on the extras on film and when we presented it to Scream, they just said they weren't interested. If it was on VHS they might've taken a look at it but they didn't want any film elements that weren't digitized. Not to mention we also offered the original stereo M&E tracks so they can make a real 5.1 track, but instead used the old Anchor Bay DVD audio, again - they just were not interested in going the extra mile. So I can imagine the lengths they went to in regards to finding the best version in this case.

But, I'll hit the old safeguard; "It is what it is" and this is what we got. Like I said before hopefully someone, someday will grab this film and give it all the bells and whistles it deserves. Scream got close, not doubt, but still, not 100% there. Not for me anyways.
Chris, don't those "extras" you found for Night of the Demons, cost something too? Is it that financially, they put in what they could, but later when new things were found, the budget for profitability was already close, so they couldn't fix or purchase without going over budget, that was set for the Extras, and restoration...

Just curious...

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Old 06-24-2016, 06:56 AM   #818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleHBK View Post
These are rough as I didn't take the time to match up the exact frame between releases, but the shots are close enough for people to see the difference in Color, detail, composition, etc...

[Show spoiler]MGM DISC


Scream Factory Disc



MGM02


Scream02


MGM03


Scream03


MGM04


Scream04


MGM05


Scream05


MGM06


Scream06


MGM07


Scream07


Let me know if you want more... I tried to do more of the better lit scenes as the differences become harder to spot in most of the darker/rainier scenes.
Nice! I'll compliment that with a comparison between the Scream and Second Sight's blu (with a full write-up here):


^Second Sight blu


^Scream Factory


^And a little close-up detail just to make the distinctions more obvious.

MGM and Second Sight are pretty close, though, so either comparison has mostly the same results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleHBK View Post
Following up on my screenshots... The color appears to be much improved and more natural on the Scream Factory release. Sharpness and clarity is a notch better.. almost like a film was removed from the image that you didn't know was there. Grain appears to be more natural from the little bit I've jumped around though I haven't watched the entire Scream Factory release yet so I may change my mind on this. Interestingly the Scream Factory release is brighter in almost all scenes. Not sure if this was the original intent or the result of contrast boosting.
Yeah, completely agree. I definitely prefer the look of Scream Factory's above all others, plus they have the best collection of extras.
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Mr. Thomsen (06-24-2016), returnofthemack (06-24-2016), Rockercub (06-24-2016), TripleHBK (06-24-2016)
Old 06-24-2016, 07:00 AM   #819
StingingVelvet StingingVelvet is offline
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Loving the grain, looks good. Ironic the seem to have DNR'd the shit out of the workprint, but I don't care too much.
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Old 06-24-2016, 11:28 AM   #820
deathcab6366 deathcab6366 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismac87 View Post
Here are some caps from the boot I have;









Again, it's not perfect by any means, but it also doesn't suffer from the black crush and muddled sound of an already rough version.
Sorry, but your DVD bootleg looks worse than the Scream Factory workprint, IMO
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