4K UHD Blu-ray Playback on PC Desktop is officially dead in 2021?

[Ruined]

Starting in Q1 2021 when Intel releases their next generation microarchitecture of processors there will be no longer be any new desktop processors that support the hardware needed for 4K UHD Blu-ray DRM.

Neither of the Intel 11th generation Desktop processors that will be available (Mainstream Rocket Lake S / HEDT/Server Ice Lake X/SP) will support both Intel SGX & integrated graphics which is what is required for the DRM to enable native PC 4K UHD Blu-ray hardware playback.

Intel's upcoming 10th generation mainstream part Comet Lake S appears it will be the last generation of PC desktop CPU anytime soon to support 4K UHD Blu-ray DRM.

So, will the BDA remove the Intel SGX requirement then or is 4K UHD Blu-ray on PC desktop officially dead as of Q1 2021?

[kristoffer]

Well that really sucks for the future of the format! Luckily both PS5 and the next Xbox will support UHD BD.

[HDTV1080P]

A link to verify that Intel is removing SGX from future CPU's would be nice. If the BDA decides to remove the SGX requirement then one can use a 5 year old AMD or Intel based computer with Windows 10 to play native 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs. The way it is now only less then 1% of Windows PC’s have SGX security technology which means 99% of people with Windows cannot play native 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Starting in Q1 2021 when Intel releases their next generation microarchitecture of processors there will be no longer be any new desktop processors that support the hardware needed for 4K UHD Blu-ray DRM.

Neither of the Intel 11th generation Desktop processors that will be available (Mainstream Rocket Lake S / HEDT/Server Ice Lake X/SP) will support both Intel SGX & integrated graphics which is what is required for the DRM to enable native PC 4K UHD Blu-ray hardware playback.

Intel's upcoming 10th generation mainstream part Comet Lake S appears it will be the last generation of PC desktop CPU anytime soon to support 4K UHD Blu-ray DRM.

So, will the BDA remove the Intel SGX requirement then or is 4K UHD Blu-ray on PC desktop officially dead as of Q1 2021?

Your always fixated on AACS or DRM it seems. And the last AACS yarn never spun true, and that spun from stolen papers from Sony by hackers.

This time is this derived from the Chinese PTT forums?

related article
Intel Rocket Lake-S Desktop CPUs Feature 8 Cores, GT1 Xe Graphics – Rocket Lake-U 6 Core at 15W, Tiger Lake-U 4 Cores at 15W & Tiger Lake-H 8 Cores at 45W Base TDPs -

specifically

The latest details surrounding Intel's 11th Generation Tiger Lake & 12th Generation Rocket Lake CPUs have leaked out over at Chinese PTT forums. According to leaker Shark Bay, Intel's next-gen families for desktop and mobility platforms will have vastly different specifications & core configs.

You know what propagating rumors are that not substantiated factually. They are still only rumors.

Interesting enough the document that was probably Intel proprietary is gone.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

A link to verify that Intel is removing SGX from future CPU's would be nice. If the BDA decides to remove the SGX requirement then one can use a 5 year old AMD or Intel based computer with Windows 10 to play native 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs. The way it is now only less then 1% of Windows PC’s have SGX security technology which means 99% of people with Windows cannot play native 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/in...aphics-pcie-40

[JohnAV]

Intel Xe Graphics: Release Date, Specs, Everything We Know - TomsHardware 5/1/20

Intel's Tiger Lake processors will feature Xe Graphics and are set to launch later this year. (Image credit: Intel)
Intel Xe Graphics Release Date

Intel has repeatedly targeted a 2020 release, and all indications are that it's still on track for that. Coronavirus delays might push things back a bit, but given that Intel is primarily responsible for the manufacture of the GPUs, hopefully late summer or early fall 2020 will still happen. We also know that Intel is prepping for the launch of its 10th Gen Core processors, aka Comet Lake, and the LGA1200 socket with Z490 chipset motherboards. We think those will arrive by June and then, maybe a month or two later, Intel will launch Xe Graphics.

Xe Graphics (Xe LP) is also featured in the upcoming Tiger Lake line of CPUs. We expect those to target laptops and mobile devices, just like the current Ice Lake lineup, but Intel has recently revised its plans during its earnings call and Tiger Lake should arrive later this year. That could be good news for anyone concerned with Intel's 10nm+ yields, as it suggests things have improved—though the Tiger Lake CPU is still very small, so perhaps not.

[Ruined]

John what was your point with the Xe graphics article in reference to this topic?

[slimdude]

4K movies are made and should be viewed on a big screen. Watching 4K on a desktop computer and small portable devices wouldn't do the technology any justice.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by slimdude

4K movies are made and should be viewed on a big screen. Watching 4K on a desktop computer and small portable devices wouldn't do the technology any justice.

True but it's more for compatibility sake. I don't have a big screen near where my computer is located and if would be nice to be able to play 4k discs as often they have better masters than the standard BD (often even the one included in the 4k package)

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Ruined

John what was your point with the Xe graphics article in reference to this topic?

The upcoming graphics architecture is usually paired with display interface which shows HDMI 2.0b on your rumored image. It's like what is the point of supporting that unless there is a way to allow UHD playback? Anyway thought the article would be helpful, even if it didn't discuss SGX encryption which according to some security article is not secure.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by slimdude

4K movies are made and should be viewed on a big screen. Watching 4K on a desktop computer and small portable devices wouldn't do the technology any justice.

Its so much less a irritating inconvenience to use a BD player than a computer. Every time I used some PC based software solution to play BD media, its so CPU intensive compared to just have some cheap BD players that can hardware decode the encryption to a AV bitstream its like would anyone even want that? UHD BD playback via PC is also suspect with hackers stealing and streaming it on the internet with the industry. Even the BD playback software for a PC is coming from sources not really licensed.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

The upcoming graphics architecture is usually paired with display interface which shows HDMI 2.0b on your rumored image. It's like what is the point of supporting that unless there is a way to allow UHD playback? Anyway thought the article would be helpful, even if it didn't discuss SGX encryption which according to some security article is not secure.

Yeh the problem 4K UHD on PC requires both CPU-integrated graphics and Intel SGX. Otherwise it fails the DRM check and will not playback the content.Modern nvidia cards have similar HDMI specs and 4K UHD Blu ray does not work with them.

The leaked Intel block diagram (from a historically reliable source - for instance most recently they leaked the detailed specifications of every processor in the Comet Lake S family 5 months before Intel revealed them and were 100% accurate) specifically notes for the 11th gen consumer architecture that has the integrated graphics needed that Intel SGX will not be present.

The security issues with Intel SGX may very well be why they removed it, but the side effect of this will be breaking the ability to playback 4K UHD Blu ray unless the BDA relaxes the DRM requirements.

[Ruined]

Some more news that supports this, direct from Intel this time!
https://images.anandtech.com/doci/15686/inst.png

It appears in addition to 11th gen Rocket Lake S not having Intel SGX, the follow-up to Rocket Lake S - 2022's 12th gen Alder Lake S - also appears it will not have Intel SGX. We can see this in the table as Alder Lake is not marked as having the Intel SGX ENCLV ISA extension.

This means this year's Intel 10th gen Comet Lake 10900K may be the last, most powerful chip that can decrypt the 4K UHD BD DRM for the foreseeable future.

[Lum]

Um, can I have this in noob speak? What would I need to buy if I want fully BDA licensed and approved native 4K UHD BD playback on a desktop PC?

[MelonGx]

Originally Posted by Lum

Um, can I have this in noob speak? What would I need to buy if I want fully BDA licensed and approved native 4K UHD BD playback on a desktop PC?

First,

A qualified motherboard / NUC / Laptop.

Qualified motherboards & NUCs are listed in the following list:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1184

Then,

A suitable CPU.

If you buy a NUC or a laptop, ignore this step, since they have already integrated a CPU.
(Z170 & Z270 motherboards only accept Kaby-lake CPUs. Coffee-lake modding is incompatible.)
(Z390, Z370, H370, Q370, H310 motherboards don't support R0 stepping 9th Gen CPUs, unless you know how to mod their Intel ME FW.)

Third,

A qualified 4K UHD BD playback supported optical drive.
A 4K monitor/TV supports both HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0 / DP 1.2.
A PowerDVD (Some qualified optical drives bundle an OEM version.)

(No internal optical drive for laptop available, unless you buy some specific models only for sale in Japan.)

Last,

Go to BIOS settings, set SGX option to ON.
(If your laptop / ASUS motherboard only have the Software Controlled option, or no SGX option exist, ask me for SGX05311.7z download.

[LexInHD]

Originally Posted by Lum

Um, can I have this in noob speak? What would I need to buy if I want fully BDA licensed and approved native 4K UHD BD playback on a desktop PC?

You'd buy or build a Tiger Lake system, when available. It checks all the boxes for compatibility and has HDR hardware support in the GPU and native HDMI 2.X output.

[LexInHD]

I've discovered that the BDA now has a license program for UHD PCs and it looks like ASUS is cooking something up or perhaps if offering something just for the Asian market. Their Vivo MiniPC line has had offerings that could be upgraded with UHD-BD drives - or can use external ASUS drives - and would be ideal matches for their HDR-capable premium monitor offerings.

[nick4Knight]

My answer to this is what goody-two-shoes really cares about having a DRM-compliant PC solution? I'm not advocating for piracy, in saying that. Simply stating anyone with a HTPC/media server solution who remuxes *their legitimately bought collection* from a NAS to their home cinema etc is doing so by circumventing these archaic practices of content protection.

[MelonGx]

Originally Posted by nick4Knight

My answer to this is what goody-two-shoes really cares about having a DRM-compliant PC solution? I'm not advocating for piracy, in saying that. Simply stating anyone with a HTPC/media server solution who remuxes *their legitimately bought collection* from a NAS to their home cinema etc is doing so by circumventing these archaic practices of content protection.

Not all the countries allow illegal steps even for limited personal usage.

[HDTV1080P]

There are 1.5 billion Windows devices in the world. However less than 1% of those Windows devices can play native 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs because of the requirement to have a CPU/motherboard that requires Intel based SGX security technology. In the ideal world the Blu-ray Disc Association should develop a secure software solution so that anyone with a Windows 10 operating system can play native 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs. In the ideal world anyone that purchases a external or internal 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray BD-ROM drive should be able to connect that device to any Windows 10 operating system to play their 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray collection.

We do not live in a ideal world, and the Blu-ray Disc Association is missing out on the 1.5 billion Windows devices that have the potential to play 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs with a simple external USB 4K BD-ROM that attaches to the portable Windows device. All that needs to be done is to mandate a secure 4K Blu-ray software solution and drop the SGX hardware security requirement that limits the market to under 1% of Windows consumers. Then with a software solution programs like PowerDVD Ultra would output 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray discs at 2160P resolution for 5 year old PC's, and 1080P resolution for 10 year old PC's (Some 15-20 year old PC's would have 720P resolution when playing 4K Blu-ray). Also with a USB 4K BD-ROM drive connected to a modern Windows tablet PC consumers could see 4K Blu-rays on their large screen 4K quality tablets while traveling.