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Old 12-05-2020, 02:33 PM   #1
ravenus ravenus is offline
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Default 4K UHD on a 1080p plasma display

Sorry if this kind of question has been posted before but...

I have a faithful Panasonic 1080p 50" plasma display that has been serving me well for nearly 12 years now and still going good. Hence, I am not likely in the very near future to shift to a new 4K display, but I am considering getting a 4K player because some of the boutique labels like Arrow do not include the blu-ray versions in their UHD packages and I was wondering if I should just get a 4K player for future-proofing.

One of the things I was wondering is...do UHD's with HDR grading look alright on a normal HD display, that is to say do they at least look as good as the blu-rays or is there any issue because of the display not being 4K+HDR capable?
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Old 12-06-2020, 09:50 PM   #2
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I also have a Panasonic 1080 tv with an oppo 4k player. I have been collecting the 4k movies also as a future proof of titles I want. Short answer is I notice a slight increase in clarity and contrast in the picture. The image seems more solid for lack of a better term. As far as HDR goes, you won't get that as the Panasonic only does SDR.

Regardless, the picture doesn't show any abnormalities that would make it unwatchable. It no doubt would get much better in all aspects on a 4k tv.
The added bonus for me is the dolby atmos sound which is in my opinion, quite a bit of a step up from the DTSMA that is on the older blu ray versions.

Hope this helps
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Old 12-07-2020, 05:25 AM   #3
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Picked up a Panasonic DP-UB420 on a Black Friday discount to attach to my old 2013 Samsung plasma. Though down converted and without HDR, the couple 4K discs that I tried on it after adjusting the settings looked great. Checking various reviews (Best Buy, Crutchfield, etc.) it appears that others have also attached it to standard HD displays and had similar pleasing results. The player itself is the best in its price point.

Last edited by lilboyblu; 12-07-2020 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 12-08-2020, 09:57 AM   #4
ravenus ravenus is offline
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Thanks for your feedback folks. I recently read a piece (written in 2017, mind) where the writer suggests that a down converted UHD gave him a more problematic viewing experience than a regular BD of the same package:
https://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/4...1080p-display/

Especially since I don't even have an Atmos setup (and won't for quite some time, given that the AVR I bought just 2 years ago is not Atmos capable), I am wondering if it's worth paying a premium for a UHD player now, if there are going to be issues compared to watching regular BD's.
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Old 12-09-2020, 02:46 AM   #5
Dynamo of Eternia Dynamo of Eternia is offline
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I'll add something to this as well.

I'm still using a Samsung 1080P 64" Plasma set. A couple of years ago the Blu-Ray player that I had connected to it stopped working. I got a pretty nice (not the highest end, but FAR from low end) Panasonic 4K Blu-Ray player. I had already been buying 4K combo packs since the format launched, and figured I may as well get a player as well.

I have had mixed results with trying to play 4K discs on a 1080p screen due to the issues with down converting the HDR color spectrum.

HOWEVER, what really surprised me with it is that there is a reasonably noticeable difference and improvement in the upscaling of regular Blu-Rays and even DVDs compared to with my previous player. The picture quality was noticeably better. And while DVDs certainly don't look as good as Blu-Ray or 4K discs, it still did such a good job of upscaling it that it would be at least somewhat hard to necessarily tell that I am watching a DVD if I wasn't already aware of it. So it's nice for titles that just aren't available in higher quality formats.
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Old 12-09-2020, 03:28 AM   #6
Pondosinatra Pondosinatra is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccjr View Post
I also have a Panasonic 1080 tv with an oppo 4k player. I have been collecting the 4k movies also as a future proof of titles I want. Short answer is I notice a slight increase in clarity and contrast in the picture. The image seems more solid for lack of a better term. As far as HDR goes, you won't get that as the Panasonic only does SDR.

Regardless, the picture doesn't show any abnormalities that would make it unwatchable. It no doubt would get much better in all aspects on a 4k tv.
The added bonus for me is the dolby atmos sound which is in my opinion, quite a bit of a step up from the DTSMA that is on the older blu ray versions.

Hope this helps
Interesting. I also snapped up an Oppo the day they announced they were stop making players - just for future proofing. But I'm currently content with my Pioneer BDP-85fd.

Also love my Panny ZT60's...so intend to keep them until they die. But it's good to know buying a 4k disc wouldn't be a waste.
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Old 12-09-2020, 06:10 AM   #7
cuzzin cuzzin is offline
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I got my first 4K player last December while still rocking my 1080p Kuro. I found that the 4K discs looked no better if not worse on a 1080p screen than their Blu-ray counterparts. Took almost a full year before I finally upgraded to a 4K screen as well, but I'm glad I had the player ready to go.
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Old 12-09-2020, 09:59 AM   #8
PUsokrJosh305 PUsokrJosh305 is online now
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I'll chime in on this topic. A year ago in a half a go, I bought the Panasonic 820 but I was still rocking my Samsung 2011 LCD 1080p TV at the time. I moved into a house later on last year and a year ago, I hooked up my 820 to my older TV.

When playing a 4K UHD disc, I was actually disappointed in the dimness of the movies. This was due to the fact that UHD is naturally a bit dimmer. Plus, to compensate for UHD converted to 1080p, it had to dim it down even further. There is an adjustment on your player to brighten the picture up.

Other than the dimness, the picture actually looked awesome with better picture quality! Plus, the 820 just makes look everything great! My parents have an old Panasonic plasma TV and I have been really curious to see what 4K UHD movies look on that!
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Old 12-19-2020, 01:37 AM   #9
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I don't have anything helpful to add here, but I have a similar question and I don't want to start a new thread.

I too want to buy a 4k player to replace my old regular 1080p player.

I like the 1080p picture quality but I do have some issues. Natural sharpness and contrast in 1080p most times it's ok to good but rarely great. Any attempt to increase them from the tv settings is resulting in halos and some pixelation which is annoying so I don't like doing it.

My TV is 1080p and I'm staying with it for now. Many reasons for that, budget one of them. I'm reading here that 4k discs don't look that great on a 1080p TV, but that's ok for now since I don't have many 4k discs.

But I wonder if a 4k player will give a sharper picture with better contrast in my regular bluray discs. Does it give a natural increase in both of those without changing the settings? Or, if I have do increase the settings on sharpness and contrast does the image hold up or I will still see the halos and pixelation?

I understand from the previous replies that I will see a better quality picture. But my biggest concern has to do with sharpness and contrast.
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Old 12-19-2020, 02:19 AM   #10
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I also have my Oppo 203 plugged into my Vt50 Panny plasma. Coming to America looked very good with popping colors. Can't complain.
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Old 01-06-2021, 07:14 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilboyblu View Post
Picked up a Panasonic DP-UB420 on a Black Friday discount to attach to my old 2013 Samsung plasma. Though down converted and without HDR, the couple 4K discs that I tried on it after adjusting the settings looked great. Checking various reviews (Best Buy, Crutchfield, etc.) it appears that others have also attached it to standard HD displays and had similar pleasing results. The player itself is the best in its price point.
I have the ub420 as well and it is fantastic for the price!

My situation is somewhat similar to a few other posts i’ve seen here. I recently bought Interstellar on Steelbook from BB and realized it came only with the 4K uhd version. I watched it on the ub420 and displayed on my Panasonic ZT60 and I thought it looked amazing!
The down conversion from HDR to SDR on the panasonic is fantastic IMO, but I am curious, would a normal blu ray still display the best possible picture on a 1080p display? Like a noticeable difference? For example. interstellar on blu ray vs 4k uhd on a 1080 display...
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Old 01-06-2021, 10:51 AM   #12
CreasyBear CreasyBear is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endoskeleton View Post
I have the ub420 as well and it is fantastic for the price!

My situation is somewhat similar to a few other posts iíve seen here. I recently bought Interstellar on Steelbook from BB and realized it came only with the 4K uhd version. I watched it on the ub420 and displayed on my Panasonic ZT60 and I thought it looked amazing!
The down conversion from HDR to SDR on the panasonic is fantastic IMO, but I am curious, would a normal blu ray still display the best possible picture on a 1080p display? Like a noticeable difference? For example. interstellar on blu ray vs 4k uhd on a 1080 display...
I have a Samsung F5300 and Panasonic UB420 and only play UHD's on my plasma that are new, different transfers from the Blu-ray. Something like Interstellar, you might as well watch the Blu-ray, since it's optimized for 1080p and is the same transfer. Something like The Dark Knight 4K, since it has a new vastly superior transfer from the Blu-ray, benefits from watching the 4K disc on the plasma. I will say that I adjust my settings and calibrated the "standard" mode on my plasma to adjust for the dimmer picture that a 4K disc is going to give on a 1080p display.

A fun one is Gemini Man, which will run at 1080/60p and looks buttery smooth on a plasma. I don't know how good the 60 frames looks on a LCD or OLED, but man, it is ungodly on a plasma.
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Old 01-06-2021, 11:57 PM   #13
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you do know it's down converted or it will reject the tv as a non 4K device connected. So what you are trying to say is a down converted 4k disc to 1080p looks better than the 1080p disc. I don't believe that is possible other than tv or player's video settings are enhancing the picture.
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Old 01-07-2021, 08:09 AM   #14
PuppetMasterBlu PuppetMasterBlu is offline
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4K discs actually do look better on my 1080p projector. If you don't believe it pop over to capsaholic and compare a 1080p disc and a 4K disc from the same master. I can see a difference, if only slight, on my 24 inch 1080p vizio tv that im using for a computer monitor. On my 1080p projector it's even better.

The important thing here is getting a 4K player that can convert HDR to SDR well. Then you have to play with the settings until you work out the contrast. I have the Panasonic UB820. I simply pushed the Dynamic Range Adjustment up to about 6 and everything looks great and yes even a little better than a blu-ray.
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Old 01-07-2021, 10:35 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punisher View Post
you do know it's down converted or it will reject the tv as a non 4K device connected. So what you are trying to say is a down converted 4k disc to 1080p looks better than the 1080p disc. I don't believe that is possible other than tv or player's video settings are enhancing the picture.
If it's the same master, I don't see the point in watching the 4K disc since it won't really yield any benefit on a 1080p display over the Blu-ray, provided the Blu-ray is well encoded. But there are many instances where the 4K disc has a new master and then, it's definitely worth watching the 4K disc.
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Old 01-07-2021, 08:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punisher View Post
you do know it's down converted or it will reject the tv as a non 4K device connected. So what you are trying to say is a down converted 4k disc to 1080p looks better than the 1080p disc. I don't believe that is possible other than tv or player's video settings are enhancing the picture.
It will depend on the disc, but unless HDR to SDR conversion is screwy most UHDs should be superior to their Blu-ray counterparts due to the encoding and compression.
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Old 01-07-2021, 10:39 PM   #17
Geoff D Geoff D is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punisher View Post
you do know it's down converted or it will reject the tv as a non 4K device connected. So what you are trying to say is a down converted 4k disc to 1080p looks better than the 1080p disc. I don't believe that is possible other than tv or player's video settings are enhancing the picture.
As said above, there are various factors at play. If the Blu-ray was filtered and the UHD was not, the latter will look more detailed even in the 1080p downconvert. If the UHD's compression is tighter then it will be better resolved even in the 1080p downconvert. If the 4K is using a brand new transfer while an old Blu-ray is not it will look better even in the 1080p downconvert. And that's not even mentioning more subjective preferences like UHD's colour and range which even in converted SDR can spank the actual SDR disc.

Shit, 15 years ago people on AVS were demonstrating how their homebrew SD downconverts from Blu-ray were *far* better than the commercial DVD of the exact same source, and this is not too dissimilar. Not that the studios are nobbling Blu-ray at anything like the kind of level that they were doing to DVD, though they're certainly giving it a go with the kinds of awful studio downconversions seen on stuff like the new 1080p Blu-rays of the Matrix trilogy. In that case I wouldn't hesitate to recommend that people with 1080p displays avoid the new SDR discs completely and just watch the UHDs downconverted.

Last edited by Geoff D; 01-07-2021 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 01-07-2021, 10:43 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CreasyBear View Post
I have a Samsung F5300 and Panasonic UB420 and only play UHD's on my plasma that are new, different transfers from the Blu-ray. Something like Interstellar, you might as well watch the Blu-ray, since it's optimized for 1080p and is the same transfer. Something like The Dark Knight 4K, since it has a new vastly superior transfer from the Blu-ray, benefits from watching the 4K disc on the plasma. I will say that I adjust my settings and calibrated the "standard" mode on my plasma to adjust for the dimmer picture that a 4K disc is going to give on a 1080p display.

A fun one is Gemini Man, which will run at 1080/60p and looks buttery smooth on a plasma. I don't know how good the 60 frames looks on a LCD or OLED, but man, it is ungodly on a plasma.
Just FYI Interstellar was newly transferred in 4K just all the other Nolan UHDs released at that time, it is not the same transfer as the Blu-ray and it is not "optimised for 1080p". Presuming that you've actually watched it to make this assessment, if it doesn't leap out at you as different when downconverted it's because it's a recent movie which already had a verr gud Blu-ray, unlike TDK which had a dog's dinner of a Blu-ray and so it wouldn't take much for a downconverted UHD to better it.
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Old 01-07-2021, 11:15 PM   #19
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sorry but capsaholic as a reference site?......I don't thinks so.Better you provide your own shots than refer to the land of 3 dollar bills.
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Old 01-08-2021, 12:53 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post
Just FYI Interstellar was newly transferred in 4K just all the other Nolan UHDs released at that time, it is not the same transfer as the Blu-ray and it is not "optimised for 1080p". Presuming that you've actually watched it to make this assessment, if it doesn't leap out at you as different when downconverted it's because it's a recent movie which already had a verr gud Blu-ray, unlike TDK which had a dog's dinner of a Blu-ray and so it wouldn't take much for a downconverted UHD to better it.
I didn't realize he did a new transfer for Interstellar. I just assumed it was the same transfer, just at 4K with HDR. I'll have to give it a spin and see. Looking at capsaholic, it definitely looks warmer than the Blu-ray. The Dark Knight 4K is a f***ing revelation. God that Blu-ray was atrocious. I still don't understand why they gave Batman Begins a remastered Blu-ray, but not TDK.
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