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Old 05-08-2022, 07:23 PM   #701
Jason One Jason One is online now
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Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post
Of course there must be a complaint period beyond which replacements cannot be demanded.

Or do you think people should be able to demand replacements for VHS tapes with production mistakes that were bought in the eightees too?
Except that VHS is a dead format where all movies are long out of print, while Arrow's 12 Monkeys BD is still a current release on a current format.

Last edited by Jason One; 05-08-2022 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 05-08-2022, 07:39 PM   #702
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The goodwill earned by replacing the blu rays would exceed the cost of the discs.
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Old 05-08-2022, 07:43 PM   #703
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Except that VHS is a dead format where all movies all long out of print, while Arrow's 12 Monkeys BD is still a current release on a current format.
So you agree that there is a reasonable limit beyond which replacements cannot be expected after all. Then it's just a matter of deciding where that limit is.

For example there are lots of very old DVDs that are still in print, and that format is still well and alive. From what you wrote my understanding is that you think it's reasonable to expect replacements for all of those DVDs that have a production issue too.

I don't know what the laws for statue of limitation is in your country, but in most countries there is no requirements to provide replacements after such a long time.

That said, I of course also would like to see the companies offer replacements anyway.
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Old 05-08-2022, 07:56 PM   #704
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You will keep your defective discs and you will like it.
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Old 05-08-2022, 07:58 PM   #705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post
So you agree that there is a reasonable limit beyond which replacements cannot be expected after all. Then it's just a matter of deciding where that limit is.

For example there are lots of very old DVDs that are still in print, and that format is still well and alive. From what you wrote my understanding is that you think it's reasonable to expect replacements for all of those DVDs that have a production issue too.

I don't know what the laws for statue of limitation is in your country, but in most countries there is no requirements to provide replacements after such a long time.

That said, I of course also would like to see the companies offer replacements anyway.
Are you a lawyer working for Arrow? If not, why the emphasis on finding legalese that Arrow can use to avoid offering a replacement disc?

I'm not interested in any of that. I'm here as a fan of 12 Monkeys and Arrow, who hopes Arrow will do a favor to me and their other loyal customers and correct a mistake they and Universal let slip.
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Old 05-08-2022, 09:14 PM   #706
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Originally Posted by DR Herbert West View Post
Screw over your early/pre-order customers. Good idea.
Pre-order customers from four years ago? I don't know what's the manufacturer warranty for Arrow, or in the BD industry in general, but with most products you don't get a lifetime warranty with free replacements
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Old 05-08-2022, 09:18 PM   #707
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Pre-order customers from four years ago? I don't know what's the manufacturer warranty for Arrow, or in the BD industry in general, but with most products you don't get a lifetime warranty with free replacements
Who is claiming that Arrow is bound by some warranty? No one. We're talking about Arrow being nice and taking care of their loyal customers.
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Old 05-09-2022, 01:52 AM   #708
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They could do what Microsoft used to do in the early days. Charge consumers for the retail physical copies of the newer version upgrades of their Operating System. People will still buy the 12 Monkeys 4k UHD v1.20
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Old 05-09-2022, 01:55 AM   #709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lateralspin View Post
They could do what Microsoft used to do in the early days. Charge consumers for the retail physical copies of the newer version upgrades of their Operating System. People will still buy the 12 Monkeys 4k UHD v1.20
That doesn't sound like something Arrow would do. I wouldn't put it past a couple of other labels to try something like that though.
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Old 05-09-2022, 01:59 AM   #710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lateralspin View Post
They could do what Microsoft used to do in the early days. Charge consumers for the retail physical copies of the newer version upgrades of their Operating System. People will still buy the 12 Monkeys 4k UHD v1.20
I will be on v3.0 UHD of Bridge on the River Kwai soon enough
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Old 05-09-2022, 04:25 AM   #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post
So you agree that there is a reasonable limit beyond which replacements cannot be expected after all. Then it's just a matter of deciding where that limit is.

For example there are lots of very old DVDs that are still in print, and that format is still well and alive. From what you wrote my understanding is that you think it's reasonable to expect replacements for all of those DVDs that have a production issue too.

I don't know what the laws for statue of limitation is in your country, but in most countries there is no requirements to provide replacements after such a long time.

That said, I of course also would like to see the companies offer replacements anyway.
I'm not sure what good it does to play mental gymnastics devil's advocate. No one's paying 28-35$ for a DVD they're going to put on to distract the kids. This is a premium product for collectors and enthusiasts. That's why they have disk replacement programs and why we're talking about it. Many have already returned it based on this defect.

They should replace it because we expect them to. The end. I don't see the point of making excuses for them.
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Old 05-09-2022, 07:20 AM   #712
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Are you a lawyer working for Arrow? If not, why the emphasis on finding legalese that Arrow can use to avoid offering a replacement disc?

I'm not interested in any of that. I'm here as a fan of 12 Monkeys and Arrow, who hopes Arrow will do a favor to me and their other loyal customers and correct a mistake they and Universal let slip.
Exactly! Remember how Criterion replaced discs that were going bronze in some cases years after release? They certainly could have taken a 'too late, too bad' attitude, but chose not to.

I don't think anyone would argue this is about legal enforcement. It's about customer loyalty in a niche market
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Old 05-09-2022, 08:09 AM   #713
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Pre-order customers from four years ago?
Yeah, the people that paid $35 for a defective product.
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Old 05-09-2022, 09:30 AM   #714
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I don't think it's too unfair for people to expect Arrow to replace a faulty product, even if it first came out a number of years ago. They may be under no legal requirement to do so but they sell a niche product and the cost of replacements for the people who request one isn't going to be all that much compared to goodwill generated. And Arrow needs as much goodwill as they can get considering how many botched releases they've put out in recent years.

Arrow sells themselves as a premium product with a price to match, they sell their products as being the definitive version available of that release and as such you expect perfection. Arrows standards in recent years has slipped so much that I half expect them to announce the replacement program at the same time they announce a new title.
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Old 05-09-2022, 04:28 PM   #715
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Originally Posted by RealisticBotMan View Post
I'm not sure what good it does to play mental gymnastics devil's advocate. No one's paying 28-35$ for a DVD they're going to put on to distract the kids. This is a premium product for collectors and enthusiasts. That's why they have disk replacement programs and why we're talking about it. Many have already returned it based on this defect.

They should replace it because we expect them to. The end. I don't see the point of making excuses for them.
You've clearly not followed the discussion from the start.

What I have said is that I think corrected replacement for the 4K BD disc should be provided. But I do not think that if Arrow go ahead with that, then they also must provide corrected replacement discs for the BD discs that people bought 4 years ago. I think it would be nice of them if they do it anyway for the old BD discs too, but I do not think they are forced to do so. That's my point.
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Old 05-09-2022, 04:47 PM   #716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason One View Post
Are you a lawyer working for Arrow? If not, why the emphasis on finding legalese that Arrow can use to avoid offering a replacement disc?

I'm not interested in any of that. I'm here as a fan of 12 Monkeys and Arrow, who hopes Arrow will do a favor to me and their other loyal customers and correct a mistake they and Universal let slip.
I'm more worried that if people start demanding replacements for the 4 year old BD too, then Arrow might think the total cost will be too high so they will not even provide any replacement for the 4K BD.

Perhaps it's better to not demand too much and be satisfied with at least getting a replacement for the recently released 4K BD. But I understand opinions on this may differ depending on whether you've got the BD or not.
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Old 05-09-2022, 04:53 PM   #717
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Update:



https://twitter.com/arrowfilmsvideo/...UPX8juWVDi_xfA
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Old 05-09-2022, 04:57 PM   #718
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Wow, to quote some obscure slasher movie 'worst run of bad luck since Richard Nixon'

Pull your socks up Arrow!
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Old 05-09-2022, 05:33 PM   #719
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Sounds promising from a replacement point of view. Good job Arrow!
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Old 05-09-2022, 05:35 PM   #720
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Note the filmmaker bit as well: I said it in the Henry thread that sometimes this stuff really does get past everyone, including ye almighty direktor.

PS

I've not quoted the image because there's no need for four in a row
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