Oppo confirms BDP-103/105 will be last Blu-ray players without online activation

[Ruined]

So I spoke with an Oppo rep.

Once their UHD players are out, they are going to discontinue their 1080p BD player line.

They also confirmed they will be implementing all features of AACS2.0 as required by the BDA, which includes online disc activation.

So if you want a high quality player that doesn't have the ability to force you to register discs online, stock up on them 103/105s!

NOTE: It is not unique to Oppo for UHD players to require online activation, but it is unique to Oppo that they will not be carrying standard BD players anymore.

[thecalm_7]

Originally Posted by Ruined

So I spoke with an Oppo rep.

Once their UHD players are out, they are going to discontinue their 1080p BD player line.

They also confirmed they will be implementing all features of AACS2.0 as required by the BDA, which includes online disc activation.

So if you want a high quality player that doesn't have the ability to force you to register discs online, stock up on them 103/105s!

NOTE: It is not unique to Oppo for UHD players to require online activation, but it is unique to Oppo that they will not be carrying standard BD players anymore.

When does the uhd model come out? I want a second 103 to leave in region b mode all the time. I just hate to rush out and drop 500$ if it can wait a bit

I'm not keeping up with uhd details, but disc registering? Is this similar to what ms said was going to be required by Xbox one consoles then it got scrapped because of backlash?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by thecalm_7

When does the uhd model come out? I want a second 103 to leave in region b mode all the time. I just hate to rush out and drop 500$ if it can wait a bit

I am trying to find out the launch date myself.

I'm not keeping up with uhd details, but disc registering? Is this similar to what ms said was going to be required by Xbox one consoles then it got scrapped because of backlash?

Similar, yes. Except it was not scrapped in UHD's case as it is part of the AACS2.0 spec and built into every UHD player. Also in UHD's case the studio has the power to decide which movies will require online activation and which will not require it, it is not a blanket requirement that all discs require it - but it is a blanket requirement that all players require it. If UHD becomes successful, in time likely online activation will be required for all mainstream titles.

It works like this
Not every UHD disc is required to force online activation, but every UHD player is required to have the hardware and software to allow that to happen.

A UHD disc that does not feature online activation has the DRM certificate to play the movie on the disc itself; these operate like standard Blu-ray Discs.

A UHD disc that does feature online activation has no DRM certificate on the disc; instead, it has a BD-Live activation file, similar to a Divx disc (if you remember that dead format).

Without a DRM certificate, the player will not play the disc - instead, the player reads the BD-Live activation file which will point the player to the internet site to download the certificate. When you connect to that site, your player's ID, IP address, etc will be recorded. If it is deemed you are eligible to download a certificate, your player will download a custom DRM certificate that is specific to you and your player. Therefore, if you then pirate the movie they can identify you personally as the pirate to sue with your certificate. The certificate will be stored in your player's memory and will remain good until your player dies or the certificate expires, whichever comes first. When that occurs, you will need to download a new certificate.

Of course, if for some reason the sites that house the UHD certificates goes down (i.e. format dies, studio closes), you will not be able to download a replacement certificate.

Most likely, this "feature" will not be implemented in discs until the format is successful - but it is implemented in hardware in every single UHD player from the start, Trojan Horse style.

[thecalm_7]

Thanks!

[chipgallo]

Is this AACS 2.0 description based on the leaked Sony documents? If not, can you provide a reference? Thanks!

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by chipgallo

Is this AACS 2.0 description based on the leaked Sony documents? If not, can you provide a reference? Thanks!

The leaked Sony document is a great summary doc, but if you want retail proof look no further:

Samsung UHD Blu-ray player manual, tucked in the Appendix p.50:
http://www.samsung.com/us/video/home-audio/UBD-K8500/ZA
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/co...00-ZA_1203.pdf

Originally Posted by SAMSUNG

• What is a valid certificate?

When the product uses BD-LIVE to send the disc data and a request to the server to certify the disc, the server uses the transmitted data to check if the disc is valid and sends the certificate back to the product.

Also, when I specifically asked the rep about the online activation component of AACS2.0, Oppo stated they were required to implement all features of AACS2.0 as required by the BDA.

[richieb1971]

Is the certificate a one time deal or does it check it every time you boot the disc?

[tezster]

I'm a little confused - what does this mean exactly in terms of renting/loaning/selling UHD discs? Would that be effected in any way?

Also, does that mean there's no such thing as a standalone UHD player with no internet connection capabilities? What happens when you purchase a new disc and try to play it on a player with no internet connection?

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by richieb1971

Is the certificate a one time deal or does it check it every time you boot the disc?

It checks the player memory every time you boot a disc without a certificate, because the player will not play a disc without a certificate.

So, the download could theoretically only need to happen once per disc and then it should be stored in your player's memory - but that is assuming your player never breaks, player memory does not get cleared, you never buy a new player and the certificate never expires. So in most people's cases it will need to happen more than once per disc.

If the servers shut down and you need a replacement certificate or you are flagged as a "pirate" based on your certificate request history, good luck.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by tezster

I'm a little confused - what does this mean exactly in terms of renting/loaning/selling UHD discs? Would that be effected in any way?

That is unclear currently as the initial batch of UHD discs do not require online activation (again though, all UHD players do have that capability). Depending on the implementation, it could either not affect these things at all or affect all of these things. I assume the studios want to ensure the format succeeds before they force this "feature," so it does not suffer the fate of Divx, old XBOX disc online activation requirement plans, etc. Very smart and sneaky of them.

You also may want to add in terms of speculation: What happens when I import a disc from another country? Will a UK studio allow me to online activate a UK disc with a US internet address?

Also, does that mean there's no such thing as a standalone UHD player with no internet connection capabilities? What happens when you purchase a new disc and try to play it on a player with no internet connection?

Player internet capabilities are mandatory requirement for a UHD player, as they are a mandatory requirement of AACS2.0 which in turn is a mandatory requirement of the BDA for UHD.

If you purchase a new disc with online activation and try to play it on a player without an internet connection that has never activated that disc, it will not play and you will get a certificate error message. If the player was previously connected to the internet and you played the disc previously to download the certificate onto the player's memory, then it should play when disconnected.

[richieb1971]

Just FYI - This is what the Samsung manual reads -

BD-Live Internet Connection
• What is a valid certificate?
When the product uses BD-LIVE to send the disc data and a request to the
server to certify the disc, the server uses the transmitted data to check if the
disc is valid and sends the certificate back to the product.
• The Internet connection may be restricted while you are using BD-LIVE
contents.


I suppose sharing discs is the main issue here. If each disc has a separate ID activation code and you put the same disc in two players it might stop that disc from playing from 1 or both of the players.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by richieb1971

Just FYI - This is what the Samsung manual reads -

BD-Live Internet Connection
• What is a valid certificate?
When the product uses BD-LIVE to send the disc data and a request to the
server to certify the disc, the server uses the transmitted data to check if the
disc is valid and sends the certificate back to the product.
• The Internet connection may be restricted while you are using BD-LIVE
contents.


I suppose sharing discs is the main issue here. If each disc has a separate ID activation code and you put the same disc in two players it might stop that disc from playing from 1 or both of the players.

Until we have online activation discs in the wild we really don't know how restrictive or open the implementation of it will be. Even at its least restrictive, though, it will require every UHD player you own to download a certificate to play a disc which is a deal killer for me. There is no guarantee I will be able to download a replacement certificate in 3, 5, 10 years etc. Also keep in mind since discs are stamped its not so easy (but not impossible) to put a separate ID activation code on each disc.

If I am going to spend the money and allocate space for a physical disc, I do not want a glorified digital copy which is what these discs will be. Further, I do not want to support a format in its its infancy when that is the endgame of the format.

Since it is baked into the format not much to do at this point aside from vote with your wallet. Either not buy the format at all as in my case, not buy the online activation discs, or if you don't care then buy away

[solarrdadd]

well, before we all hunker down gathering for prayer in the bunker, I think we should wait for something a bit more official from Oppo via a press release. same would be true for other player manufacturers. and if that's the way it is, that's the way it is. take it or leave it.

[chipgallo]

It was inevitable that certain companies with vast arrays of intellectual property (cough, Disney, cough) would again attempt to prevent piracy of their IP. What about the mandatory HDCP 2.2, which made my Marantz receiver obsolete for switching 4K content? If they can get enough people lusting over the UHD version of the latest tentpole film release, these considerations will be dust in the wind for some.

[hedliniv]

This really scares me away from the format - sure it is pretty, sure it is very cool, but this really is a deal breaker for me. I'm cancelling my pre-orders... 1080p is good enough for me if the content providers are going to pull this crap!

Originally Posted by Ruined

I am trying to find out the launch date myself.



Similar, yes. Except it was not scrapped in UHD's case as it is part of the AACS2.0 spec and built into every UHD player. Also in UHD's case the studio has the power to decide which movies will require online activation and which will not require it, it is not a blanket requirement that all discs require it - but it is a blanket requirement that all players require it. If UHD becomes successful, in time likely online activation will be required for all mainstream titles.

It works like this
Not every UHD disc is required to force online activation, but every UHD player is required to have the hardware and software to allow that to happen.

A UHD disc that does not feature online activation has the DRM certificate to play the movie on the disc itself; these operate like standard Blu-ray Discs.

A UHD disc that does feature online activation has no DRM certificate on the disc; instead, it has a BD-Live activation file, similar to a Divx disc (if you remember that dead format).

Without a DRM certificate, the player will not play the disc - instead, the player reads the BD-Live activation file which will point the player to the internet site to download the certificate. When you connect to that site, your player's ID, IP address, etc will be recorded. If it is deemed you are eligible to download a certificate, your player will download a custom DRM certificate that is specific to you and your player. Therefore, if you then pirate the movie they can identify you personally as the pirate to sue with your certificate. The certificate will be stored in your player's memory and will remain good until your player dies or the certificate expires, whichever comes first. When that occurs, you will need to download a new certificate.

Of course, if for some reason the sites that house the UHD certificates goes down (i.e. format dies, studio closes), you will not be able to download a replacement certificate.

Most likely, this "feature" will not be implemented in discs until the format is successful - but it is implemented in hardware in every single UHD player from the start, Trojan Horse style.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by solarrdadd

well, before we all hunker down gathering for prayer in the bunker, I think we should wait for something a bit more official from Oppo via a press release. same would be true for other player manufacturers. and if that's the way it is, that's the way it is. take it or leave it.

Did you ever see Oppo put out a press release that they were incorporating Cinavia DRM into the 103/105, which Oppo did do as required by the BDA?

Why in the world would they want to advertise restrictive DRM? Bottom line it is part of AACS2.0 and required by BDA, thus either you implement it or you don't release a UHD player.

[jvonl]

Glad I'm old. All of this nonsense reinforces my feeling that blu-ray is the final frontier for me. I grew up when movies played in theaters, followed much later by chopped up versions on tv. When vhs arrived, it was just incredible to be able to own and re-watch movies whenever I wanted to. More happiness when dvd's appeared, and now a nice collection of blus. What more do I need? I've got the kuro and the sound, and, while I admit that I'm looking forward to OLED in a couple of years, I'm HAPPY with what I have. I can appreciate the benefits of an Audi, but I don't need one - I'm happy with my Honda. I may appreciate the next wave, but I just don't need it. A functional Holodeck, on the other hand.... And, if they stop producing blus, oh well. My collection will be larger by then, I'm sure. Rant over - carry on.

[bobbydrugar]

Well said. I 'm done with this Orwellian Nonsense myself. 1080P is good enough for me and its clear that they don't want my Money anymore.

They had to choose between most of the money and all of the money and in my opinion they choose poorly as selecting all the money will mean none of my money.

T

[zeuspaul]

Originally Posted by Ruined

So I spoke with an Oppo rep.

Once their UHD players are out, they are going to discontinue their 1080p BD player line.

They also confirmed they will be implementing all features of AACS2.0 as required by the BDA, which includes online disc activation.

So if you want a high quality player that doesn't have the ability to force you to register discs online, stock up on them 103/105s!

NOTE: It is not unique to Oppo for UHD players to require online activation, but it is unique to Oppo that they will not be carrying standard BD players anymore.

Does the next gen Oppo have any affect on current 1080P discs? Why the need to buy a 103 now if next gen players will play 1080P without a need for activation? If I am only interested in 1080P is there any need to upgrade to the 103 before they are replaced with 4k players?
.
.
.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by zeuspaul

Does the next gen Oppo have any affect on current 1080P discs? Why the need to buy a 103 now if next gen players will play 1080P without a need for activation? If I am only interested in 1080P is there any need to upgrade to the 103 before they are replaced with 4k players?
.
.
.

I don't think it will affect standard 1080p Blu-ray Discs. It is more about whether you want to financially support a format (which you will by buying a UHD player) that has online activation.

If you are only interested in 1080p discs, I don't think there is much disadvantage in buying a 103D instead of a UHD player.