Alien Plot-holes

[J-Syxx]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

Ya know - you're right, its all there in the COMIC book. Comics have NOTHING to with anything so Im glad you guys have the time and inclination to read the comics. All the cool pictures. Great. Way to put on a display of your immense intelligence and IQ. Im impressed. Maybe you can find a popup book for Alien 3 too and refer to that from now on.

The egg-laying with NO sac is "canon"? From what? Some dorky comic book? Noone cares about comic books and they have nothing to do with blu-ray discs.

Its a plot hole - the entire world except for 2-3 people here know that to be a fact so keep spewing the "Im smart and you're not" BS. Its entertaining if not somewhat sad. Oh wait - It was Bishops next door neighbors best friends brother that planted the egg. My bad. See - I thought about it. I feel smarter now.

Even if we take away the GAPING plot hole, the movie still sucks and is considered a disaster of epic proportions by 99% of the population. Even most of the people involved in making the film know its a mess. Glad thats settled.

It's not a plot hole, and anyone who thinks it is one is slow and doesn't understand what a plot hole is.

The entire premise was built upon the fact tha an egg or eggs got aboard the Sullaco, more than likely via the queen. They just chose to not show it on screen to keep it more mysterious. Do you understand that, genius? A big part of the plot of the first part of this movie is about whether or not an Alien actually made it onto Fury 161. Showing a lot of the Alien on screen before that, and spelling it all out for the audience, works against that theme. Please read that several times so it soaks in a bit.

Again, a plot hole is something accidental. You may as well be calling Ripley being lost in space for 50 years a plot hole becuase it doesn't sound plausible or the eggs in the diralect being a plot hole because how they got there isn't explained. Stop being rediculous. Just because you don't like the movie, doesn't mean you get to redefine words or accuse David Fincher or being an idiot.

Yes, eggs were placed on the Sulacco in Alien 3 canon. Notice how you don't see the ****ing queen untill she pops out and slices Bishop in half. If we saw the queen the whole damn time, you would have a point, but you don't at all. The fact that Alien biology was added onto with Alien 3 also doesn't prove your point or else the queen herself would be a "plot hole."

And Alien 3 really isn't that unpopular anymore. The extended cut has made people realize it actually has some merit.

[Lyle_JP]

J-Syxx, are you capable of disagreeing with someone without being a complete dick? Too bad I won't hear your answer, as this site has a nice ignore feature.

[Valaquen]

Originally Posted by Lyle_JP

J-Syxx, are you capable of disagreeing with someone without being a complete dick? Too bad I won't hear your answer, as this site has a nice ignore feature.

I don't like to get entangled, but J-Syxx's, err, confrontational nature seemed to have gotten him kicked from AVPGalaxy. I'm sure he doesn't miss it [and vice versa], but there ya go. [And nobody involved with Alien 3 decided to not show the Queen laying the egg. There is absolutely nothing from the filmmakers saying this, whereas with, say, Aliens, Cameron has said that he deliberately didn't show the Queen getting on the dropship for the surprise factor. Next to every Alien III script had the unexplained egg or even an unexplained fully-grown Alien aboard the Sulaco, and not a single one of them had an explanation for it after Cameron blew the Hive and everything in it].

[J-Syxx]

Originally Posted by Valaquen

I don't like to get entangled, but J-Syxx's, err, confrontational nature seemed to have gotten him kicked from AVPGalaxy. I'm sure he doesn't miss it [and vice versa], but there ya go. [And nobody involved with Alien 3 decided to not show the Queen laying the egg. There is absolutely nothing from the filmmakers saying this, whereas with, say, Aliens, Cameron has said that he deliberately didn't show the Queen getting on the dropship for the surprise factor. Next to every Alien III script had the unexplained egg or even an unexplained fully-grown Alien aboard the Sulaco, and not a single one of them had an explanation for it after Cameron blew the Hive and everything in it].

And in Alien, there wasn't a queen. Is that a plot hole as well? What Cameron did doesn't matter. What matters is what Fincher did, and in his movie the queen placed the egg there. End of story.

As for AVPGalaxy, the forum is filled with self hating pricks who basically talked about how much they hated the fact Ridley Scott was making another Alien film for two years. Then we had the episode with homophobes in denial for a while there. Like I give a damn I made a bunch of pricky snobs mad.

[Valaquen]

Originally Posted by J-Syxx

And in Alien, there wasn't a queen. Is that a plot hole as well? What Cameron did doesn't matter. What matters is what Fincher did, and in his movie the queen placed the egg there. End of story.

The Queen didn't exist in 1979, and the source of the eggs in Alien was well documented, onscreen [albeit deleted] and off [by Scott, O'Bannon, etc], as was the Derelict ship. With Alien 3 you have an established life-cycle, and an established series of events, that are contradicted. If people complain about the Queen getting on board the Sulaco, then they're missing Cameron's comments about it, as he has addressed it directly. If he hadn't, then it would have been negligence on his part. But he did. With Alien 3, there is not a single explanation for it, no-one involved with the production has sat down to address the issue, and the reason is because: there is no explanation. When Walter Hill says that Alien 3's script was 'a complete f*****g mess,' then I'm inclined to believe him, considering it was his pen which wrote it.

As for AVPGalaxy, the forum is filled with self hating pricks who basically talked about how much they hated the fact Ridley Scott was making another Alien film for two years. Then we had the episode with homophobes in denial for a while there. Like I give a damn I made a bunch of pricky snobs mad.

It's the internet, you'll meet people you don't agree with; I've butted heads with many over there, and some I don't like talking with, but hey, forums are usually better than the sum of their parts.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Lyle_JP

J-Syxx, are you capable of disagreeing with someone without being a complete dick? Too bad I won't hear your answer, as this site has a nice ignore feature.

No, he is not. Hes too busy reading comic books and 3D popup books for various films trying to justify the biggest plot hole in film making history. But, to make him feel better - we wont call it a plot "hole". We'll call it the stoopidest & laziest plot DEVICE ever concocted or fabricated.

Thems are the facts. Thanks and good night. "D

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by s2mikey

Bingo. Remember, these are essentially bugs. As Ash so eloquently stated they dont have many thought processes or "delusions of morality". They just propogate the species and eat and then die. Like most bugs. They dont reason, they dont have meetings to plan out all this crap, and they dont create power point presentations on their laptops to figure out a game plan on how to get on the Sulaco and plant eggs.

Sure, in the first film, the Alien did get into the shuttle and that would require some thought perhaps. But, thats a far cry from eggs growing out of the framework of the Sulaco. Like you said - the scriptwriters couldnt come up with anything else so "poof" you've got an egg on board.

Maybe they should have let the comic book writers do the script?

The ONLY thing I can come up with (thanks to some stretches of logic and the "easter egg" sound effect of a facehugger scrabbling across the ground at the end of ALIENS' end titles is that when Ripley blew up the nest some facehuggers were forced out on the ground and hitched a ride on the queen when she left the nest (like the parasites on the Cloverfield monster). They dropped off while she was hiding inside the dropship on the way back to the Sulaco.

[J-Syxx]

The Queen didn't exist in 1979, and the source of the eggs in Alien was well documented, onscreen [albeit deleted] and off [by Scott, O'Bannon, etc], as was the Derelict ship. With Alien 3 you have an established life-cycle, and an established series of events, that are contradicted. If people complain about the Queen getting on board the Sulaco, then they're missing Cameron's comments about it, as he has addressed it directly. If he hadn't, then it would have been negligence on his part. But he did. With Alien 3, there is not a single explanation for it, no-one involved with the production has sat down to address the issue, and the reason is because: there is no explanation. When Walter Hill says that Alien 3's script was 'a complete f*****g mess,' then I'm inclined to believe him, considering it was his pen which wrote it.

This is balonga. Cameron changed the Alien life cycle. Originally, it was going to be "egg morphing." Everyone knew that including Cameron. It was what Scott was going to do untill he cut out that scene due to pacing and other reasons. It was in the script, noveliazation, and everything. However, since it wasn't on screen, Cameron felt he could change it. Same exact thing. Fincher tweaked the life cycle to allow for an emergency egg birth. Since the queen isn't revealed until a good time later after it boarded the Sulaco, he felt he could change. Exact same shit, and it isn't a plot hole. As much as I love Cameron, he isn't the only one who is allowed to add onto Alien canon. And no one talks aobut this probably becuase there hasn't been a ton of conversation on Alien 3 in general for different reasons.

[Valaquen]

Originally Posted by J-Syxx

This is balonga. Cameron changed the Alien life cycle. Originally, it was going to be "egg morphing." Everyone knew that including Cameron. It was what Scott was going to do untill he cut out that scene due to pacing and other reasons. It was in the script, noveliazation, and everything. However, since it wasn't on screen, Cameron felt he could change it. Same exact thing. Fincher tweaked the life cycle to allow for an emergency egg birth. Since the queen isn't revealed until a good time later after it boarded the Sulaco, he felt he could change. Exact same shit, and it isn't a plot hole. As much as I love Cameron, he isn't the only one who is allowed to add onto Alien canon. And no one talks aobut this probably becuase there hasn't been a ton of conversation on Alien 3 in general for different reasons.

Exactly, Cameron's reason being: "We didn't see it onscreen." Likewise, we didn't see the Queen deposit anything on the Sulaco. It simply is. Fincher didn't change anything, he didn't write the film, he had no control over the film, and he said many times that the Alien 3 he was making was not the film he wanted to make. If anyone put the egg on the Sulaco, it was Vincent Ward and Giler and Hill, who finalised the script. The Space Jockey ship in Alien contradicted nothing that came before it, whereas the Sulaco egg did. Without explanation, or hint of it, it's a hole. If you've made peace with it, then I think that's great, personally.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Valaquen

The Space Jockey ship in Alien contradicted nothing that came before it, whereas the Sulaco egg did.

What did it contradict, exactly? I'm not clear on that.

That the queen couldn't deposit eggs in the state she was in on the Sulaco? That she never entered the Sulaco proper? Or is it something else I'm missing?

[Lyle_JP]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

The ONLY thing I can come up with (thanks to some stretches of logic and the "easter egg" sound effect of a facehugger scrabbling across the ground at the end of ALIENS' end titles is that when Ripley blew up the nest some facehuggers were forced out on the ground and hitched a ride on the queen when she left the nest (like the parasites on the Cloverfield monster). They dropped off while she was hiding inside the dropship on the way back to the Sulaco.

That's perfectly reasonable, and I could accept that... except that they clearly show an opened egg on the Sulaco in Alien 3's title sequence. Stowaway face-huggers are almost believable, but that's not what we're shown at the start of the third film.