LPCM vs. TrueHD - Blu-ray Forum

Ascended_Saiyan · 06-02-2007, 12:01 AM

I have read how these new compressed lossless formats (TrueHD in particular) are suppose to be...well...lossless. I have noticed a difference between TrueHD and LPCM on "Stomp the Yard" (thanks, Sony). It seems like some of the fidelity is subdued. Other reviewers have noticed this difference on the "Departed" between the HD DVD (TrueHD) and the Blu-ray (LPCM) versions.

Could it be that TrueHD isn't quite lossless but close to it? All I know is that from now on I want a LPCM track unless space constraints call for a TrueHD track. Have any of you noticed this as well?

JTK · 06-02-2007, 12:12 AM

Semi related conversation in this thread sort of. I definitely agree with Peter's post here:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...9564#post99564

BTBuck1 · 06-02-2007, 02:35 AM

I haven't seen a single HDDVD title in TruHD where I've thought it even held a candle to LPCM 5.1

Funny though, Titles like M,I:3 or Pirates in 640kbps DD...hell even Casino Roayles 448kbps track sound more impressive than anything I have heard from "TruHD"

IMHO from what I have heard so far, TruHD is hardly better than DDplus at 1.5mbps. Yet I am still in shock evertime I select PCM lossless on my sammy

PeterTHX · 06-02-2007, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ascended_Saiyan

I have read how these new compressed lossless formats (TrueHD in particular) are suppose to be...well...lossless. I have noticed a difference between TrueHD and LPCM on "Stomp the Yard" (thanks, Sony). It seems like some of the fidelity is subdued. Other reviewers have noticed this difference on the "Departed" between the HD DVD (TrueHD) and the Blu-ray (LPCM) versions.

Could it be that TrueHD isn't quite lossless but close to it? All I know is that from now on I want a LPCM track unless space constraints call for a TrueHD track. Have any of you noticed this as well?

Hmmm.

How is your PS3 set?

I don't have "Stomp The Yard" (not my kind of movie) but other reviews I've read listed them as identical.

Quote:

IMHO from what I have heard so far, TruHD is hardly better than DDplus at 1.5mbps. Yet I am still in shock evertime I select PCM lossless on my sammy

We really need more apples to apples comparisons done on Blu-ray. Perhaps when the "Spider-Man" films are out. Plus the remastered "Fifth Element".

BTBuck1 · 06-02-2007, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

We really need more apples to apples comparisons done on Blu-ray. Perhaps when the "Spider-Man" films are out. Plus the remastered "Fifth Element".

LPCM fo life!

Ascended_Saiyan · 06-02-2007, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Hmmm.

How is your PS3 set?

I don't have "Stomp The Yard" (not my kind of movie) but other reviews I've read listed them as identical.

We really need more apples to apples comparisons done on Blu-ray. Perhaps when the "Spider-Man" films are out. Plus the remastered "Fifth Element".

My PS3 is not set to bitstream. Not to mention even Peter Bracke noticed the difference on "The Departed" (from HD DVD and Blu-ray versions). I don't even think he was using a PS3.

I got curious while watching Iwo Jima with the TrueHD track. I was looking at the bitrates for the TrueHD track and noticed how low they were. I figured this was a complete port from the HD DVD version. That made me think about something. I thought what if all the HD DVD versions of TrueHD was encoded at such a low bitrate. That made me take out every title in my collection with a TrueHD track. The most direct comparison being "Stomp the Yard". To be continued...typing on the PS3

Ascended_Saiyan · 06-02-2007, 06:35 AM

On "Stomp the Yard", I noticed that the bitrates on the TrueHD track was much higher than the bitrates on the "Letters from Iwo Jima" TrueHD track.

I popped in the Nine Inch Nails concert. The TrueHD track was at a higher bitrate level than a 5.1 LPCM at 4.6Mbps. The TrueHD track on "Jazz Legends" was almost as high as the Nine Inch Nails concert. I should also point out that the last two titles I mentioned sounded everybit as good as any 5.1 LPCM track or even slightly better (it should sound that way at the same or higher bitrate as a 16-bit 5.1 LPCM track).

Therefore, my theory is that the HD DVD TrueHD tracks maybe compressed to the point where they are no longer lossless.

PeterTHX · 06-02-2007, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ascended_Saiyan

On "Stomp the Yard", I noticed that the bitrates on the TrueHD track was much higher than the bitrates on the "Letters from Iwo Jima" TrueHD track.

I popped in the Nine Inch Nails concert. The TrueHD track was at a higher bitrate level than a 5.1 LPCM at 4.6Mbps. The TrueHD track on "Jazz Legends" was almost as high as the Nine Inch Nails concert. I should also point out that the last two titles I mentioned sounded everybit as good as any 5.1 LPCM track or even slightly better (it should sound that way at the same or higher bitrate as a 16-bit 5.1 LPCM track).

Therefore, my theory is that the HD DVD TrueHD tracks maybe compressed to the point where they are no longer lossless.

It depends: the titles you mention are music tracks. Music is much more nuanced and demanding, compare a soundtrack CD to the film version, not even close.
BTW: Watch the bitrate jump on "Iwo Jima" when things get busy, especially when the music kicks in.

Ascended_Saiyan · 06-02-2007, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

It depends: the titles you mention are music tracks. Music is much more nuanced and demanding, compare a soundtrack CD to the film version, not even close.
BTW: Watch the bitrate jump on "Iwo Jima" when things get busy, especially when the music kicks in.

I watched that meter the entire time during "Letters from Iwo Jima". It never got to 2.8Mbps. It mainly hung around 1.2Mbps. Plus, it sounded subdued...like the edges were rounded off. "Stomp the Yard" almost never went below 1.7 and peaked in the 3+Mbps range. But, that TrueHD track sounded subdued as well.

LembasBread · 06-02-2007, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ascended_Saiyan

I popped in the Nine Inch Nails concert. The TrueHD track was at a higher bitrate level than a 5.1 LPCM at 4.6Mbps. The TrueHD track on "Jazz Legends" was almost as high as the Nine Inch Nails concert.

Perhaps those discs are 24-bit TrueHD tracks. This would make sense as they are music oriented titles.

Ascended_Saiyan · 06-03-2007, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LembasBread

Perhaps those discs are 24-bit TrueHD tracks. This would make sense as they are music oriented titles.

Yeah. That is most likely true.

06-02-2007, 12:01 AM	#1
Ascended_Saiyan Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Sep 2006 Location:Atlanta, Georgia Blu-ray collection:608 Trading Score:1	LPCM vs. TrueHD I have read how these new compressed lossless formats (TrueHD in particular) are suppose to be...well...lossless. I have noticed a difference between TrueHD and LPCM on "Stomp the Yard" (thanks, Sony). It seems like some of the fidelity is subdued. Other reviewers have noticed this difference on the "Departed" between the HD DVD (TrueHD) and the Blu-ray (LPCM) versions. Could it be that TrueHD isn't quite lossless but close to it? All I know is that from now on I want a LPCM track unless space constraints call for a TrueHD track. Have any of you noticed this as well?

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06-02-2007, 12:12 AM	#2
JTK Blu-ray Knight Member since:Jan 2006 Location:www.blurayoasis.com	Semi related conversation in this thread sort of. I definitely agree with Peter's post here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...9564#post99564

06-02-2007, 02:35 AM	#3
BTBuck1 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jun 2006 Location:Oceanside, CA. Blu-ray collection:507 DVD collection:1	I haven't seen a single HDDVD title in TruHD where I've thought it even held a candle to LPCM 5.1 Funny though, Titles like M,I:3 or Pirates in 640kbps DD...hell even Casino Roayles 448kbps track sound more impressive than anything I have heard from "TruHD" IMHO from what I have heard so far, TruHD is hardly better than DDplus at 1.5mbps. Yet I am still in shock evertime I select PCM lossless on my sammy

06-02-2007, 06:35 AM	#7
Ascended_Saiyan Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Sep 2006 Location:Atlanta, Georgia Blu-ray collection:608 Trading Score:1	On "Stomp the Yard", I noticed that the bitrates on the TrueHD track was much higher than the bitrates on the "Letters from Iwo Jima" TrueHD track. I popped in the Nine Inch Nails concert. The TrueHD track was at a higher bitrate level than a 5.1 LPCM at 4.6Mbps. The TrueHD track on "Jazz Legends" was almost as high as the Nine Inch Nails concert. I should also point out that the last two titles I mentioned sounded everybit as good as any 5.1 LPCM track or even slightly better (it should sound that way at the same or higher bitrate as a 16-bit 5.1 LPCM track). Therefore, my theory is that the HD DVD TrueHD tracks maybe compressed to the point where they are no longer lossless.

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