Article: Consumers urged to pick new DVD format

[Leo1016]

Interesting article. Sorry if its been posted.

http://www.azcentral.com/ent/pop/art...dvdformat.html

Consumers urged to pick new DVD format
Associated Press
Aug. 10, 2007 12:00 AM
LOS ANGELES -- People who own an HD DVD player can forget about watching "Spider-Man 3" in high definition when it goes on sale during the holiday season. The movie from Sony Pictures will only be available in the Blu-ray DVD format. Likewise, people with Blu-ray players won't be able to enjoy the action-thriller "The Bourne Ultimatum," which Universal Pictures will release only in HD DVD.

These exclusive arrangements, plus aggressive price cuts for high-def DVD players, are designed to persuade consumers to finally embrace one format or the other.

But analysts wonder if the moves will anger consumers, just as the studios and consumer-electronics companies are hoping to boost high-def DVD sales as growth in standard DVDs stalls.

"The frustration for consumers is not knowing what format is going to win," said Chris Roden, an analyst at Parks Associates.

Consumers, many of whom are still smarting from the VCR format battle between VHS and Betamax, need to know their expensive equipment won't become obsolete if the competing format wins, said Steven J. Caldero, chief operating officer of Ken Crane's, specialty electronics chain in Southern California.

"People are still frustrated there is a format war to begin with," he said. "The studios are making people choose. What consumers want is something that will play everything so they don't have to choose."

Until recently, many consumers were able to defer the choice because players have been so expensive. But prices have been slashed by about half - Sony Corp.'s Blu-ray player now sells for $499 and Toshiba Corp.'s cheapest HD DVD player sells for $299, with both likely to include as many as five free movies as an incentive. (Players that read both formats remain expensive.)

Both sides are also releasing blockbuster titles such as the new "Pirates of the Caribbean" movie aimed squarely at the demographic most likely to upgrade to high-def.

The stakes couldn't be higher for Hollywood, which has seen sales of traditional DVDs, once a reliable profit engine, slow to a trickle. Direct digital delivery online, while promising, is still years away from profitability because current Internet capacity simply can't handle the enormous high-definition files.

Yet consumers remain profoundly confused by the two formats, both of which deliver crisp, clear pictures and sound but are completely incompatible with each other and do not play on older DVD players. Many haven't even heard of either format.

HD DVD, developed by Toshiba and backed by powerful companies like Microsoft, has the lead in standalone players sold because they are cheaper and hit the market first.

In the United States, standalone HD DVD players have 61 percent market share, while Blu-ray players have 36 percent share and the few dual-format players have a 3 percent share, according to market research company The NPD Group Inc.

But Blu-ray, backed by Sony and a majority of Hollywood studios, got a big boost when Sony introduced its PlayStation 3 game console, which comes standard with a Blu-ray drive. Counting those machines, there are more Blu-ray players out there.

Although Microsoft's Xbox 360 can play HD DVD movies, the drive has to be bought separately. Only 160,000 drives have been sold so far, compared with 1.5 million PS3 consoles, according to NPD.

In terms of discs sold, Blu-ray has always had the lead. Time Warner Inc.'s Warner Bros. and Viacom Inc.'s Paramount Pictures release movies in both formats, and in such cases Blu-ray has outsold HD DVD by nearly 2-to-1.

Blu-Ray is getting an even bigger boost as Blockbuster Inc. announced it would stock only Blu-ray titles when it expands its high-def DVD offerings this year. Target Inc., the nation's second-largest retailer, said it will only sell Blu-ray DVD players in its stores in the fourth quarter.

Sony Pictures, News Corp.'s Twentieth Century Fox, The Walt Disney Co., and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer are releasing only in Blu-ray. Universal, owned by General Electric Co., is the only major studio to back HD DVD exclusively.

Nonetheless, Warner Bros. believes both formats can coexist and has been urging Blu-ray backers to begin supporting HD DVD as well. The studio has developed a dual-format disc and has said it would license the technology to other studios willing to back both.

"The fourth quarter is critical for the formats to show growth and momentum," said Steve Nickerson, Warner Home Video's senior vice president of marketing. "It's more than about winning or losing. If you can continue to show growth (in both formats), that's a positive in a situation where standard DVD sales aren't growing."

To counter Blu-ray's recent gains, the HD DVD camp is planning an advertising campaign touting the interactive elements of the format, which allow users to connect to the Internet to download special features.

"This is not about a high-def movie on a disc," said Craig Kornblau, president of Universal Studios Home Entertainment. "It's about a fully immersive experience, connected interactivity. That's what is going to separate these high-def formats."

Kornblau said he isn't worried about Blu-ray's momentum and doesn't believe there's a need for one to knockout the other.

"To call this market nascent is to a degree to pay it a complement," he said. "The people who have bought so far aren't early adopters, they are early, early adopters."

Analysts said even lower prices for players could be the key to determining a format winner. Some believe that until prices hit the $200 range, consumers simply won't upgrade from their current machines, many of which cost less than $100.

Chinese-made HD DVD players selling for $199 are expected to hit store shelves by December, while Sony is widely expected to cut the cost of its Blu-ray machine to as low as $299 by year's end.

"When that occurs, the studios and Sony are going to pull out the big guns," said Phillip Swann, president of the technology-oriented Web site TVpredictions.com. "They are going to release more titles, big titles, and really go for the kill this holiday season."

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by Leo1016

Chinese-made HD DVD players selling for $199 are expected to hit store shelves by December, while Sony is widely expected to cut the cost of its Blu-ray machine to as low as $299 by year's end.

"When that occurs, the studios and Sony are going to pull out the big guns," said Phillip Swann, president of the technology-oriented Web site TVpredictions.com. "They are going to release more titles, big titles, and really go for the kill this holiday season."

Somebody is expecting it, but I still can't see how it can be done. Very conservative BOM estimations put the cost of an HD DVD player at $200 for the manufacturer. And that ignores manufacturing, shipping, support, warranty and promotion.

Please, I invite someone to go at this estimation and tell me where I could be wrong:

Drive: $50
SoC: $20 (For all the non-HDi stuff)
CPU: $40 (For HDi)
Misc parts: $50 (DRAM, Flash, power supply, case, etc.)
Royalties: $40

Cost: $200

[grip24]

Nonetheless, Warner Bros. believes both formats can coexist and has been urging Blu-ray backers to begin supporting HD DVD as well. The studio has developed a dual-format disc and has said it would license the technology to other studios willing to back both.

Damn Warner

[WriteSimply]

I can't believe that Kornblau said that those who got in are "early, early adopters". So just "early adopters" want a US$100 HD-DVD players? What about mass market?


fuad

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by grip24

Nonetheless, Warner Bros. believes both formats can coexist and has been urging Blu-ray backers to begin supporting HD DVD as well. The studio has developed a dual-format disc and has said it would license the technology to other studios willing to back both.

Damn Warner

Turn it around:

Warner has developed dual-format disc technology in hopes of maintaining IP presence in this generation, and are hoping to convince Blu-ray backers that both formats can co-exist.

Even Universal doesn't believe that. They want HD DVD to win.

It's a pure money grubbing move on Warner's part. And the disc costs of Total HD will be insane.

Blu-ray + HD DVD + flipper costs + new yield losses. Remember, they can't get HD DVD/DVD combos to work yet.

Gary

[Mr. Joshua]

"Analysts said even lower prices for players could be the key to determining a format winner. Some believe that until prices hit the $200 range, consumers simply won't upgrade from their current machines, many of which cost less than $100.

Chinese-made HD DVD players selling for $199 are expected to hit store shelves by December, while Sony is widely expected to cut the cost of its Blu-ray machine to as low as $299 by year's end.

"When that occurs, the studios and Sony are going to pull out the big guns," said Phillip Swann, president of the technology-oriented Web site TVpredictions.com. "They are going to release more titles, big titles, and really go for the kill this holiday season."


Okay Sony pull out the big guns baby. Lets see what you got! Lets end this war so I can get all that stuff that's currently only on HD DVD and get it on Blu-Ray baby.....

I've always bought Sony as it is a superior product... Never had any problems with Sony products.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by wsciv123

"Analysts said even lower prices for players could be the key to determining a format winner. Some believe that until prices hit the $200 range, consumers simply won't upgrade from their current machines, many of which cost less than $100.

Chinese-made HD DVD players selling for $199 are expected to hit store shelves by December, while Sony is widely expected to cut the cost of its Blu-ray machine to as low as $299 by year's end.

"When that occurs, the studios and Sony are going to pull out the big guns," said Phillip Swann, president of the technology-oriented Web site TVpredictions.com. "They are going to release more titles, big titles, and really go for the kill this holiday season."

Hardware costs are coming down.

We're already seeing Disney line up the big guns now. SPE has already locked down the Spiderman Trilogy. Fox is waiting in the wings. We're only in August and look how this thing is already starting to shape up.

I think this Christmas is going to finally be the necessary shock and awe for BD to end this thing.

[grip24]

Originally Posted by wsciv123

"Analysts said even lower prices for players could be the key to determining a format winner. Some believe that until prices hit the $200 range, consumers simply won't upgrade from their current machines, many of which cost less than $100.

Chinese-made HD DVD players selling for $199 are expected to hit store shelves by December, while Sony is widely expected to cut the cost of its Blu-ray machine to as low as $299 by year's end.

"When that occurs, the studios and Sony are going to pull out the big guns," said Phillip Swann, president of the technology-oriented Web site TVpredictions.com. "They are going to release more titles, big titles, and really go for the kill this holiday season."


Okay Sony pull out the big guns baby. Lets see what you got! Lets end this war so I can get all that stuff that's currently only on HD DVD and get it on Blu-Ray baby.....

I've always bought Sony as it is a superior product... Never had any problems with Sony products.

If Sonys big guns come w/the big price like Spiderman ppl are not going to buy a cheaper player if they see is going to cost $50.00 for a movie...not everyone buys from internet stores , so someone walking to BB or CC and see those BDs at those prices are going to walk right back out.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by grip24

If Sonys big guns come w/the big price like Spiderman ppl are not going to buy a cheaper player if they see is going to cost $50.00 for a movie...not everyone buys from internet stores , so someone walking to BB or CC and see those BDs at those prices are going to walk right back out.

$45-50 for TWO Blu-Ray discs (not DVD's) chock loaded with goodness.

Well informed customers already in the mix won't have any problems picking it up.

All told: I just see this being harped on around here repeatedly, and I just don't see it being a big problem.

[grip24]

Originally Posted by JTK

$45-50 for TWO Blu-Ray discs (not DVD's) chock loaded with goodness.

Well informed customers already in the mix won't have any problems picking it up.

All told: I just see this being harped on around here repeatedly, and I just don't see it being a big problem.

Sorry maybe is me...No movie is worth $50.00....Specially SP3 loaded w/things that probably going to watch once if that.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by grip24

Sorry maybe is me...No movie is worth $50.00....Specially SP3 loaded w/things that probably going to watch once if that.

Then don't buy it. Problem solved. Plenty of other people still will.


I just see some people harping on this like somehow Spiderman 3 is going to cost the BDA the format war and I just don't accept that kind of overhyped doom 'n' gloom.

Obviously I wish (and hope) they find a way to maybe tweak another $5-$10 out of that price before all is said and done.

I've seen discs get announced months out like this and then by the time the release happens you see the final price ends up being different (usually lower) and it all works out.

Patience!


EDIT:

A few things people are forgetting:

This is all going to happen during the big holiday shopping season.

The current BD promotion will end on September 30. I'm fully expecting at least one, if not several, new promotions set up for the holidays. Rebates, discounts, you name it.

On the other end, of course, you're going to see the retailers themselves trying to put as many good sales and sweetheart deals as they can.

My point? I think by the time titles like these Spideys roll out, you'll see plenty of people getting them for a LOT less than $45-$50 a pop.

[grip24]

Originally Posted by JTK

Then don't buy it. Problem solved. Plenty of other people still will.


I just see some people harping on this like somehow Spiderman 3 is going to cost the BDA the format war and I just don't accept that kind of overhyped doom 'n' gloom.

Obviously I wish (and hope) they find a way to maybe tweak another $5-$10 out of that price before all is said and done.

I've seen discs get announced months out like this and then by the time the release happens you see the final price ends up being different (usually lower) and it all works out.

Patience!

Why tweak $5-$10 off when your saying $50.00 is ok and plenty of ppl will buy it???

[takezo]

That article is nothing more that a woe full cry of desperation from a HD DVD backing journalists who just can't beleive that their format will be the one to bite the dust.

This article is from our own Blu-ray headlines as of 8/11/07.

Blu-ray Players Outpassing Rival HD DVD
Posted August 11, 2007 by Josh

Retailers are reporting that, despite HD DVD's price advantage, Blu-ray stand alone players are selling better than HD DVD stand alone players, and could be selling much more if supply could keep up with demand. Abt Electronics and Ultimate Electronics have reported that sales of Blu-ray players have increased dramatically since the introduction of low cost 2nd-generation players, and that current supplies are very tight.

John Abt, VP of Abt Electronics commented, "With all of the introductions of Blu-ray product, we have seen more sales in BD than in HD DVD, because there are so many options now out for consumers."

“We were seeing a 50/50 split in unit sales,” Bjorn Dybdahl, president of Bjorn's said. “That was primarily all three Toshiba players versus Sony's $499 players. If the Blu-ray group wants to put a death knell on HD DVD, then they need to get it everywhere very quickly.”

Source: Video Business | Permalink

Notice how this article paint's a diffrent light to who is winning the hardware ware. Of course this could be the doing of a Blu-ray backing Jounalist, however I think there is mor truth to this article than the other.

LG already has a player that plays both formats, but that is not the solution to the format war. There can only be on winner in this format war. One will become the true successor to DVD and the other buried in the sands of time. Blu-ray has way more exclusives than HD DVD. HD DVD only got Universal, that stuido has not had a great movie out in a while, while The Bourne trillogy is a great franchise, Blu-ray has Disney, Sony, and other Studios with great franchises. Imagine a person intrested in HD DVD only to relise that he/she can't have watch Spider Man, Pirates of the Carabean, and a host of other Sony and disney franchies. That's what we call variety. Majority of HD DVD movies can be found on Blu-ray, you can't say the same vice versa.

Blu-ray also has a wider selection of Players, you can't have competitiveness with HD DVD. Every one that watches HD DVD has Toshiba (Xbox 360 add ons is a complete failure, they are too few of them to matter. I like to think of the LG player as a BLu-ray player with Legacy HD DVD support ). At least Blu-ray gives you braging right among other BLu-ray users. We can compeat to which Brand has the Best Player, while HD DVD users are stuck with one Brand. If your the type that likes to have the best equipment, there is no way to have the best playe for HD DVD because it's the ONLY player.

[JTK]

Originally Posted by grip24

Why tweak $5-$10 off when your saying $50.00 is ok and plenty of ppl will buy it???

See my last post which I edited and added to just now.

Every little bit helps. I'm not saying I'm thrilled with the price. I'm just saying it's not end of the world like some people are making it out to be.

[grip24]

Originally Posted by JTK

See my last post which I edited and added to just now.

Every little bit helps. I'm not saying I'm thrilled with the price. I'm just saying it's not end of the world like some people are making it out to be.

Thats what I meant w/my post....Every little helps...and i hate to see those prices also....I know I would have more BDs if it wasnt for some of the prices on some titles....Heres hoping Sony adjust the price

[JTK]

Originally Posted by grip24

Thats what I meant w/my post....Every little helps...and i hate to see those prices also....I know I would have more BDs if it wasnt for some of the prices on some titles....Heres hoping Sony adjust the price

Hopefully it all works out. I think it will. Everyone on the BDA side and especially Sony knows how critical this holiday season is.

They know they can win this thing outright and finish it if they play their cards right.

Watch for rebates. Watch for good deals and bargains, especially around the holidays!

[bryaaaant]

Originally Posted by Leo1016

"This is not about a high-def movie on a disc," said Craig Kornblau, president of Universal Studios Home Entertainment. "It's about a fully immersive experience, connected interactivity. That's what is going to separate these high-def formats."

LOL.

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by JTK

Watch for rebates. Watch for good deals and bargains, especially around the holidays!

And that's a key. Toshiba paints itself in the corner with cuthroat SRP. The BDA sit back with nice rebate capabilities.

It's the same with the disc pricing argument. Notice which studios have had sales? Fox, Disney and Sony. The more expensive SRP studios.

And the five free discs have a higher perceived value.

Warner is kind of stuck. The only sales for them are at B&M down to Amazon.com daily prices.

Gary

[daman]

I saw this on yahoo front page just couple minutes ago. This is making big news for the average J6P
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070811/...ng_dvd_formats
Consumers urged to pick new DVD format

By GARY GENTILE, AP Business Writer Sat Aug 11, 12:24 AM ET

LOS ANGELES - People who own an HD DVD player can forget about watching "Spider-Man 3" in high definition when it goes on sale during the holiday season. The movie from Sony Pictures will only be available in the Blu-ray DVD format. Likewise, people with Blu-ray players won't be able to enjoy the action-thriller "The Bourne Ultimatum," which Universal Pictures will release only in HD DVD.

These exclusive arrangements, plus aggressive price cuts for high-def DVD players, are designed to persuade consumers to finally embrace one format or the other.

But analysts wonder if the moves will anger consumers, just as the studios and consumer-electronics companies are hoping to boost high-def DVD sales as growth in standard DVDs stalls.

"The frustration for consumers is not knowing what format is going to win," said Chris Roden, an analyst at Parks Associates.

Consumers, many of whom are still smarting from the VCR format battle between VHS and Betamax, need to know their expensive equipment won't become obsolete if the competing format wins, said Steven J. Caldero, chief operating officer of Ken Crane's, specialty electronics chain in Southern California.

"People are still frustrated there is a format war to begin with," he said. "The studios are making people choose. What consumers want is something that will play everything so they don't have to choose."

Until recently, many consumers were able to defer the choice because players have been so expensive. But prices have been slashed by about half — Sony Corp.'s Blu-ray player now sells for $499 and Toshiba Corp.'s cheapest HD DVD player sells for $299, with both likely to include as many as five free movies as an incentive. (Players that read both formats remain expensive.)

Both sides are also releasing blockbuster titles such as the new "Pirates of the Caribbean" movie aimed squarely at the demographic most likely to upgrade to high-def.

The stakes couldn't be higher for Hollywood, which has seen sales of traditional DVDs, once a reliable profit engine, slow to a trickle. Direct digital delivery online, while promising, is still years away from profitability because current Internet capacity simply can't handle the enormous high-definition files.

Yet consumers remain profoundly confused by the two formats, both of which deliver crisp, clear pictures and sound but are completely incompatible with each other and do not play on older DVD players. Many haven't even heard of either format.

HD DVD, developed by Toshiba and backed by powerful companies like Microsoft, has the lead in standalone players sold because they are cheaper and hit the market first.

In the United States, standalone HD DVD players have 61 percent market share, while Blu-ray players have 36 percent share and the few dual-format players have a 3 percent share, according to market research company The NPD Group Inc.

But Blu-ray, backed by Sony and a majority of Hollywood studios, got a big boost when Sony introduced its PlayStation 3 game console, which comes standard with a Blu-ray drive. Counting those machines, there are more Blu-ray players out there.

Although Microsoft's Xbox 360 can play HD DVD movies, the drive has to be bought separately. Only 160,000 drives have been sold so far, compared with 1.5 million PS3 consoles, according to NPD.

In terms of discs sold, Blu-ray has always had the lead. Time Warner Inc.'s Warner Bros. and Viacom Inc.'s Paramount Pictures release movies in both formats, and in such cases Blu-ray has outsold HD DVD by nearly 2-to-1.

Blu-Ray is getting an even bigger boost as Blockbuster Inc. announced it would stock only Blu-ray titles when it expands its high-def DVD offerings this year. Target Inc., the nation's second-largest retailer, said it will only sell Blu-ray DVD players in its stores in the fourth quarter.

Sony Pictures, News Corp.'s Twentieth Century Fox, The Walt Disney Co., and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer are releasing only in Blu-ray. Universal, owned by General Electric Co., is the only major studio to back HD DVD exclusively.

Nonetheless, Warner Bros. believes both formats can coexist and has been urging Blu-ray backers to begin supporting HD DVD as well. The studio has developed a dual-format disc and has said it would license the technology to other studios willing to back both.

"The fourth quarter is critical for the formats to show growth and momentum," said Steve Nickerson, Warner Home Video's senior vice president of marketing. "It's more than about winning or losing. If you can continue to show growth (in both formats), that's a positive in a situation where standard DVD sales aren't growing."

To counter Blu-ray's recent gains, the HD DVD camp is planning an advertising campaign touting the interactive elements of the format, which allow users to connect to the Internet to download special features.

"This is not about a high-def movie on a disc," said Craig Kornblau, president of Universal Studios Home Entertainment. "It's about a fully immersive experience, connected interactivity. That's what is going to separate these high-def formats."

Kornblau said he isn't worried about Blu-ray's momentum and doesn't believe there's a need for one to knockout the other.

"To call this market nascent is to a degree to pay it a complement," he said. "The people who have bought so far aren't early adopters, they are early, early adopters."

Analysts said even lower prices for players could be the key to determining a format winner. Some believe that until prices hit the $200 range, consumers simply won't upgrade from their current machines, many of which cost less than $100.

Chinese-made HD DVD players selling for $199 are expected to hit store shelves by December, while Sony is widely expected to cut the cost of its Blu-ray machine to as low as $299 by year's end.

"When that occurs, the studios and Sony are going to pull out the big guns," said Phillip Swann, president of the technology-oriented Web site TVpredictions.com. "They are going to release more titles, big titles, and really go for the kill this holiday season."

___

On the Net:

HD DVD camp: http://www.thelookandsoundofperfect.com

Blu-ray camp: http://www.blu-raydisc.com

[ReduxInflux]

proof that universal is hurting consumers. if they really want a fair market (like warner bros claims with their total hd discs), then they should go format neutral.
this is so frustrating.