Cable auditioning and home trial

[richteer]

Last week, I mentioned in the Killer Amp thread that I was going to my local dealer to audition some cables, and maybe get some for a home trial. Mdabb asked me to share my expereinces here, so here goes. Fair warning: people who think that cables are cables should skip to the next thread; this isn't for you!

A bit of background: my current (two channel) system is very nice, but I have upgraditis. The speakers are the items that would probably benefit most from an upgrade, so they're firs on my list. But before I do that, I need to get my cable house in order.

Between my turntable and preamp I have a 1.5m pair of Nordost Frey interconnects, between my preamp and power amps I have a 2m self-made silver cable, and I have a 6m pair of QED speaker cables. The Nordost is very expensive, and the other two cost about $200 each (I got/made them years ago so I forget the exact amount). These two cables are a weak link in my system, which I wanted to sort out before I seriously looked at replacing my speakers.

So I went to my local dealer (the Hifi Attic in Vernon) to listen to some of their wares. They're a Nordost dealer, so I wanted to include that on my list. I don't usually listen to CD, but the "reference" system they had set up consisted of a Chord CD player and integrated amplifier, and some Reference 3A speakers (IIRC).

After listening to a track or two we switched out the interconnects. The new cable wasn't perfect, but sounded better to me. The dealer concurred, and I was surprised that the cable we liked was about $350 (compared to the ~$2k other cable). We switched cables again (going from balanced XLR connections to single ended RCAs), to some Nordost Frey.

Very very nice sound, although it was obvious that the Chord combo preferred to operate with balanced connections. Finally, we dropped in the interconnect I made. Frankly, it sounded like crap. So much so that I didn't even bother to finish the track. (we also played a bit with speaker cables. Although my cables were very wanting, the interconnects were by far the worst of the two.)

Because it was the Nordost stuff I was interested in (and my budget was undetermined), I asked to borrow the Frey, so that I could try it in my system at home (replacing my crappy home made interconnect). So I put the Frey into my system (between turntable and preamp), used my own slightly longer length of Frey between amps (using my own speaker cables), and started spinnin' some vinyl.

The improvement was fairly significant (with better speakers I'm sure the difference would have been even greater), especially at the frequncy extremes. Detail and soundstaging also improved; I was hooked!

Yesterday, having lived with the Frey for a week, I reluctantly returned them to the Hifi Attic. If I could afford the $7,500 investment a set of Frey interconnects and speakers would be, I'd probably go for them even though in the context of my current system they'd be a bit of an overkill. If a speaker upgrade wasn't just around the corner, I would go for it, but I think the funds would be better spent on new speakers.

What I'm going to do is go further down the Nordost range of cables (e.g., to Red Dawn or maybe Baldur), and use those for the time being, and put the rest of the money into a pair of speakers. Eventually, when the rest of the system is all set, I'll upgrade the cables to Frey--or I might even consider the obscenely expensive Valhalla. (The top-of-the-line Odin is beyond my means, no matter how much I try to kid myself!)

Hope this was an interesting read for my fellow audiophile forum members! I'll keep you posted when the upgrades happen!

[Clark Kent]

I definitely believe in certain very expensive audio cables making a small difference. The question for me is the cost to benefit ratio. Audiophile interconnects do make a difference, but I question whether using all that extra money that the Nordost cables would cost would be better spent in another part of your setup. That is always the eternal question in high end sound.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

I definitely believe in certain very expensive audio cables making a small difference. The question for me is the cost to benefit ratio. Audiophile interconnects do make a difference, but I question whether using all that extra money that the Nordost cables would cost would be better spent in another part of your setup. That is always the eternal question in high end sound.

Agreed. That's why I'll probably settle for the much cheaper Red Dawn (or Baldur) for the time being, putting the money saved into a new pair of speakers. I think that putting the ~$5k I'll save into a new set of speakers (in addition to other funds I have allocated to the speaker upgrade project!) will yield a better cost/benefit ratio.

[Johnny Vinyl]

With my current HT setup and my next project (a dedicated 2-Channel Vinyl setup), which I consider to be a significent investment, I am no where in the league of even considering Nordost and/or Frey. I am however a true believer in upgrading to the best possible speaker cabling and interconnects one can afford.

My HT setup only has a slight speaker cable upgrade on all speakers and I immediately heard the improvement from the slightly better than standard speaker wire sold. I upgraded to 12-gauge speaker wire costing $5 a foot and bought about 70 feet to feed all speakers. This setup isn't going to get another improvement as I'm only an occasional movie-viewer and gamer.

I would however, allocate a much more sizeable dollar amount for my 2-Channel project. I would think that a budget of about $750-$1 G would suffice for all of my cabling/interconnect needs in that project.

Why am I saying all this? I suppose only to respond in the affirmative to the OP that every bit helps. And even for those of us with less developed audiophile ears there is no question in my mind (and ears) that this is a very worthwhile consideration.

[richteer]

Originally Posted by John72953

With my current HT setup and my next project (a dedicated 2-Channel Vinyl setup), which I consider to be a significent investment, I am no where in the league of even considering Nordost and/or Frey. I am however a true believer in upgrading to the best possible speaker cabling and interconnects one can afford.

Nordost do make some quite reasonably priced cables (for suitably large values of "reasonably"!). Their Blue Heaven (one step down from the Red Dawn I'm considering) should be in your budget, although being unshielded, the Blue Heaven interconnect is unsuitable for use between your turntable and phono stage. Tried that--lots of hum! (I now use it between my CD player and preamp.)

I would however, allocate a much more sizeable dollar amount for my 2-Channel project. I would think that a budget of about $750-$1 G would suffice for all of my cabling/interconnect needs in that project.

That sounds very reasonable. The usual rule of thumb is to allocate between 10% and 20% of one's budget to cabling.

[JJ]

Question - what would be the step-up from Monoprice cabling/connections?

Bluejeans cable?

[RUR]

Originally Posted by JJxiv1215

Question - what would be the step-up from Monoprice cabling/connections?

Bluejeans cable?

Strictly my opinion, JJ, but with your current setup (Which is nice BTW!), there are other areas where money spent will yield a much bigger improvement in AQ than interconnects e.g. more room treatment. You could spend several hundred on interconnects and hear no difference, whereas I guarantee you'd hear the difference if you spent the same amount on bass traps or side reflection absorbtion.

BJ is on par with Monoprice, IMHO.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by RUR

Strictly my opinion, JJ, but with your current setup (Which is nice BTW!), there are other areas where money spent will yield a much bigger improvement in AQ than interconnects e.g. more room treatment. You could spend several hundred on interconnects and hear no difference, whereas I guarantee you'd hear the difference if you spent the same amount on bass traps or side reflection absorption.

BJ is on par with Monoprice, IMHO.

I was just curious - any future upgrades are strictly to improve the sonic conditions in my living room (the 20-odd 1x1 panels and pair of bass traps are a small beginning). At my level, I don't think fancy wires would help! But I know very little about wires and was hoping to expand my knowledge. Thanks for the compliment, (I still have yet to test Blu-rays on it!)

[mdabb]

Will be waiting to hear about what speakers you will be auditioning and/or getting. Should be quite the read.

When you borrowed the cables did you have to leave a car for collateral???

[richteer]

Originally Posted by mdabb

Will be waiting to hear about what speakers you will be auditioning and/or getting. Should be quite the read.

I'll be sure to document it here, though I doubt I'll do as good a job as JJ! :-)
The dealer is hosting an audio night next Thursday. They're hoping to get a pair of Martin Logan Vantages in--at my request. Martin Logans are very high on my short list (top, even). How far up the range I go depends on how many shekels I can cobble together on a reasonable time frame. Certainly, at least the Vantage, but maybe the Spire or Summit-X (if it is launched in the right time frame). I'm eyeing up the CLXes, but I'm not sure if my budget will be able to stretch that far ($20k)...

When you borrowed the cables did you have to leave a car for collateral???

Nope, just a credit card imprint. Now, when I borrow the speakers, they might insist on me leaving a car! :-)

[mdabb]

If the speakers you really want are attainable and won't hurt you financially then why not??? You only live once........enjoy life!!!!

No matter what I'm sure you will be very happy with the end result.

[RUR]

Originally Posted by richteer

....maybe the Spire or Summit-X (if it is launched in the right time frame).

I suspect you're up to speed from the ML forum, but a lot of folks are thinking Summits @ the current super-discount $6,500 + $1,500 for the reputed upgrade are a better deal than new Summit X. Now, if Jeff would only publish his Spire review........

[richteer]

Originally Posted by mdabb

If the speakers you really want are attainable and won't hurt you financially then why not??? You only live once........enjoy life!!!!

No matter what I'm sure you will be very happy with the end result.

I intend to! :-)

[richteer]

Originally Posted by RUR

I suspect you're up to speed from the ML forum, but a lot of folks are thinking Summits @ the current super-discount $6,500 + $1,500 for the reputed upgrade are a better deal than new Summit X. Now, if Jeff would only publish his Spire review........

Indeed!

Super-discounted Summit + crossover upgrade is indeed an option. I have to be a bit careful with pricing, though, because we Canucks don't always get the same deals as our US brethren. Sigh...

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by richteer

Indeed!

Super-discounted Summit + crossover upgrade is indeed an option. I have to be a bit careful with pricing, though, because we Canucks don't always get the same deals as our US brethren. Sigh...

Sighs in agreement! Been perusing A-gon site (as per RUR's suggestion) and the resale prices of stuff is amazing. Too bad the majority will only ship within the U.S.

[mdabb]

Originally Posted by John72953

Sighs in agreement! Been perusing A-gon site (as per RUR's suggestion) and the resale prices of stuff is amazing. Too bad the majority will only ship within the U.S.

Never hurts to ask because I have talked to people who were only wanting local pick up but were willing to ship after all. So maybe some people will be willing to ship to Canada as well.

[Johnny Vinyl]

Originally Posted by mdabb

Never hurts to ask because I have talked to people who were only wanting local pick up but were willing to ship after all. So maybe some people will be willing to ship to Canada as well.

Thx mdabb, I'll keep that in mind.