Ayre Acoustics DX-5 Universal Blu-ray player (Top of the line in picture and sound)

[HDTV1080P]

Ayre Acoustics DX-5 Universal Blu-ray player (Top of the line in picture and sound quality according to review)

The new Ayre Acoustics DX-5 Universal Blu-ray player for $9,950 is very similar to the old OPPO BDP-83. In fact the exact same remote that is used on the OPPO BDP-83 is used on this DX-5 Blu-ray player. For $9,950 I am surprised this player is a 2-D only Blu-ray player.

The June 2011 Home Theater magazine review claims this DX-5 Blu-ray player is the best on the market in terms of both sound quality and video quality compared to any other Blu-ray player.

The following are select quotes from the June 2011 Home Theater magazine Review (review located on pages 44-46)

“The DX-5 is based on the disc drive mechanism and video decoding board from the OPPO BDP-83. Everything else is designed and/or implemented by Ayre, including the power supplies, DACs, digital filters, and analog audio output sections.”

“No other Blu-ray-based player I’ve heard, including Denon’s DVD-A1UDCI(HT, October 2009), approaches this level of sonic quality.”

“The DX-5 fully revealed the highest frequencies in these patterns, and the vertical lines looked crisper than they did with the OPPO BDP-95 I used for comparison.”

“I know my comments on the HDMI video output looking better than other players will be met with skepticism. I get it. That’s how I felt before I saw the DX-5.”

http://www.hometheater.com/content/a...rsal-av-engine

[Almadacr]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

Ayre Acoustics DX-5 Universal Blu-ray player (Top of the line in picture and sound quality according to review)

The new Ayre Acoustics DX-5 Universal Blu-ray player for $9,950 is very similar to the old OPPO BDP-83. In fact the exact same remote that is used on the OPPO BDP-83 is used on this DX-5 Blu-ray player. For $9,950 I am surprised this player is a 2-D only Blu-ray player.

The June 2011 Home Theater magazine review claims this DX-5 Blu-ray player is the best on the market in terms of both sound quality and video quality compared to any other Blu-ray player.

Others will say BS maybe inside is a OPPO re-bagged Ayre .

The following are select quotes from the June 2011 Home Theater magazine Review (review located on pages 44-46)

“The DX-5 is based on the disc drive mechanism and video decoding board from the OPPO BDP-83. Everything else is designed and/or implemented by Ayre, including the power supplies, DACs, digital filters, and analog audio output sections.”

“No other Blu-ray-based player I’ve heard, including Denon’s DVD-A1UDCI(HT, October 2009), approaches this level of sonic quality.”

“The DX-5 fully revealed the highest frequencies in these patterns, and the vertical lines looked crisper than they did with the OPPO BDP-95 I used for comparison.”

“I know my comments on the HDMI video output looking better than other players will be met with skepticism. I get it. That’s how I felt before I saw the DX-5.”

Yeah right , i will get that with the Bang & Olufsen at 85 000$

[oppopioneer]

This is a true scam, much like Audioquest's $2000 dollar HDMI Coffee cable:

http://consumerist.com/2011/01/how-t...your-life.html

[rumdiarydays]

I just read this and saw Charles Hansen's description of what was done to the Ayre unit to make it and it's definitely hard to call it a scam. Here are Mr. Hansen's words:
To make it an Ayre, we dismantle it completely and recycle everything except the main PCB (with the video decoder, ABT scaler chip, and HDMI transmitter), the transport mechanism, the VFD display, and the remote control handset.

Next we re-build the main PCB. The big switching power supply only provides 5 VDC, then there are little mini-switching power supplies (called DC-DC converters) on the main PCB that turn the 5 VDC into 1.0 VDC, 1.1 VDC, 1.8 VDC, and 3.3 VDC. All of those are removed. There are also USB power switches that allow hot-plugging of USB devices. These are removed as they have another kind of DC-DC converter called a "charge pump".

All of the supplies are replaced with pure linear supplies with analog regulators. The USB power switches are replaced with devices without the charge pumps. Now we have gotten rid of seven noise sources that create high-frequency square waves with harmonics well out into the MHz region. Getting rid of all of that noise creates a visibly cleaner picture.

Next, we replace the low-quality master video clock with a VCXO. This becomes more important later on, as you will see.

Now we start adding things back in. First is our AyreLink communication system. It allows AyreLink equipped components to act as one big system. For example, turning on the player will turn on all of the downstream components as well as automatically select the correct input on the preamp. We also make an external RS-232 to AyreLink converter box for system controllers like Crestrons. The AyreLink system has opto-isolators between each component to avoid unwanted ground loops, which is why we don't use RS-232 inputs on any of our equipment.

Then we add a custom programmed FPGA on the front panel PCB to do some housekeeping. It intercepts the appropriate commands and translates them to operate the AyreLink system. It disables the internal volume control (which operates in the digital domain and degrades the sound) and instead routes the volume changes to an AyreLink equipped preamp. It also allows us to send custom messages to the front panel VFD display. So when the USB audio input is activated, it will report that on the front panel along with the sample rate of the received signal.

There are a bunch of boards added on the audio side. I say "side" because we literally split the player into two parts. There is a separate power transformer that runs all of the audio circuitry, which is separated from the video side by a bank of opto-isolators. So the audio and video "sides" have separate grounds that are completely galvanically isolated. This is the only way to get the best performance from either your audio system or your video system.

All video displays have switching power supplies that dump noise into your system in the absence of such isolation. There are also ground loops that are inevitably formed as there is no such thing as a balanced video connection. All of those problems go away with our isolation system.

The ten-channel audio board is replaced by a two-channel audio board. Everything on this board is top-quality, with discrete, fully balanced, zero-feedback audio circuitry and discrete, zero-feedback power supply regulators. There are improvements in both the parts quality and circuit design that give it even higher performance than the QB-9 USB DAC that was recently rated "Class A+" in Stereophile's recommended components issue. For two-channel disc playback (CD, SACD, DVD-Audio), the performance exceeds our $6,000 audio-only disc player.

We also add the USB audio input that allows you to connect your personal computer and turn your system into a music server. Your entire digital library (except SACD's, thank you very much Sony -- not!) can be stored on a hard drive and played back with the click of a mouse. So this one component can be the only source component that you need. This input is also connected via a bank of opto-isolators, so there is actually a *third* "side" to the system -- the video, the audio, and the computer. The noise from your computer and its switching power supply will not be connected to either your video or audio systems.

We also add a second audio-only HDMI connector. This is fed by the isolated signals on the audio "side" so that it won't contaminate your surround-sound system if you choose to connect one. It also supports the new "Audio Rate Control" (ARC) feature that is part of the HDMI 1.3a specifcation. This is a breakthrough for the surround-sound enthusiast, as HDMI is normally the worst way in the world to send audio data -- the jitter is even worse than the lowly S/PDIF connection.

But with ARC, the surround-sound processor uses a local crystal oscillator to provide a low-jitter clock to the DAC chips. Then there is a buffer that stores the incoming audio data. When the buffer is too full it sends a signal back upstream to the Blu-Ray player telling it to slow down the disc slightly. When the buffer is too empty, it asks the disc to speed up slightly. Now the audio clock is in charge, the way that it should be. (When the unit is running in two-channel mode, the local low-jitter, fixed-frequency crystal oscillator provides the master audio clock.)

With a modern digital display (plasma, LCD, LCOS, DLP, et cetera) jitter on the video signal does not matter. Since there is no conversion to analog, the digital signal values are simply stored in a frame buffer until needed.

Then the whole thing is put into a custom chassis made entirely from anodized aluminum and stainless steel. We want our products to look just as good 50 years from now as they do today. There are other people making Oppo "clones". One of them only replaces the chassis. Another replaces the power supply also. Nobody is rebuilding the complete player and adding the extra features and advanced technology that Ayre is.

As far as the value, it is up to you to determine that. I can't tell you how much an improved picture is worth. I can't tell you how much better sound is worth. I can't tell you how much the features we add are worth. You will have to decide that for yourself.

What I can tell you is that, just like all of our other products, they offer engineering and performance beyond what anyone else is offering, at a fair price that reflects our cost of manufacturing, and that we back up our products with both a strong network of the finest dealers on the planet and an incredible service policy.

Unlike other manufacturers that try to sell you a "new and improved" product every year or two, when we figure out a way to genuinely improve the performance of our existing products, we offer upgrades to current owners at very reasonable prices. Go to the Audio Asylum and check out some comments regarding our recent "MP" upgrades to the C-5xe and CX-7e disc players, for example.

If you want a great Blu-Ray player for an incredible price, buy the Oppo. If you want the best picture and sound quality in the world for your home theater and price is not a concern, check out the Ayre. And no, it will not be available in November, sorry. Early next year will be a better guess.

[oppopioneer]

Home Theater Mag did a shoot out test of multiple bd machines ranging from $300 dollars to $3000 dollars and found no difference in PQ when using it on a 100+ size projector screen. BD is BD in PQ. The only differences you "might" get would be from SQ in analogue connectors.

Until this machine is put through it's paces against other BD machines (Marantz, Oppo's, Pioneer 09FD, Sony ES) then it's just another BD machine and it's just a waste of money.

All of those little extra's that are in the Ayre will be found in cheaper players over the next 2 to 4 years in $350 to $500 dollar players. Plus the Ayre is still only a HDMI 1.3, where much cheaper players are now HDMI 1.4 and 3D and ethernet capable over HDMI.

[HedgeHog]

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

Home Theater Mag did a shoot out test of multiple bd machines ranging from $300 dollars to $3000 dollars and found no difference in PQ when using it on a 100+ size projector screen. BD is BD in PQ. The only differences you "might" get would be from SQ in analogue connectors.

Until this machine is put through it's paces against other BD machines (Marantz, Oppo's, Pioneer 09FD, Sony ES) then it's just another BD machine and it's just a waste of money.

All of those little extra's that are in the Ayre will be found in cheaper players over the next 2 to 4 years in $350 to $500 dollar players. Plus the Ayre is still only a HDMI 1.3, where much cheaper players are now HDMI 1.4 and 3D and ethernet capable over HDMI.

I think you completely miss the point of the Ayre. It's not to compete in the typical BD player market...even they claim that's why the Oppo's guts were left in tact. It's meant to be a great universal player that also plays vids well.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by HedgeHog

I think you completely miss the point of the Ayre. It's not to compete in the typical BD player market...even they claim that's why the Oppo's guts were left in tact. It's meant to be a great universal player that also plays vids well.

As is the OPPO.

Sometimes great design is great design for design's sake. I don't know whether the Ayre results in better audio and picture. If it does, then it's worth the money to those who can afford that luxury. But those "problems" that they purport to fix may not actually be problems in the real world. In other words, do those design flaws cause any difference in the audio and video? Ayre claims they do. I would guess (but only guess) that they don't. Time will tell what the reality is.

[Almadacr]

Originally Posted by HedgeHog

I think you completely miss the point of the Ayre. It's not to compete in the typical BD player market...even they claim that's why the Oppo's guts were left in tact. It's meant to be a great universal player that also plays vids well.

So you have any reason to spend that amount of money ???

[oppopioneer]

One thing is clear, that with the introduction of HDMI and bluray the differences between electronic companies in bd performance either doesn't exist for 98% of the companies or any difference is so little. You have to take into account the whole "performance cost ratio factor" and is spending thousands upon thousands of dollars on a bd player that offers no improvements in PQ worth it?

[HedgeHog]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

As is the OPPO.

Sometimes great design is great design for design's sake. I don't know whether the Ayre results in better audio and picture. If it does, then it's worth the money to those who can afford that luxury. But those "problems" that they purport to fix may not actually be problems in the real world. In other words, do those design flaws cause any difference in the audio and video? Ayre claims they do. I would guess (but only guess) that they don't. Time will tell what the reality is.

The Oppo is a great unit...I just got the 95 myself. But the Ayre has a completely different analogue stage. For some, music through the analog stage is better than via digital. The filter added is unique to Ayre and is similar but supposedly superior to their well-rated DAC. I haven't heard it but I won't doubt that it is very good based on history of their products.

Here's an interview with a senior Oppo tech that even states analog is preferred over HDMI due to HDMI's inherent problems. http://www.htguys.com/news/2011/5/9/...ial-plain.html

Originally Posted by Almadacr

So you have any reason to spend that amount of money ???

Reason? Sure, bravado, label, uniqueness, blending with other Ayre products.... Is it worth it? Probably not, but high end gear is never "worth" it. I probably could be enjoying music/movies as much with less expensive gear than ones that I have accrued.

In fact, the MSB Tech version (based on the Oppo BDP-95) costs even more! http://www.msbtech.com/products/univ...e=platinumHome


Remember, Ayre never claimed to be superior in video since it is exactly the same as the 83. Ayre's targeted customers are these so called "audiophiles".

Cheers,
-H

[HedgeHog]

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

One thing is clear, that with the introduction of HDMI and bluray the differences between electronic companies in bd performance either doesn't exist for 98% of the companies or any difference is so little. You have to take into account the whole "performance cost ratio factor" and is spending thousands upon thousands of dollars on a bd player that offers no improvements in PQ worth it?

Unfortunately, the OP only posted a snippet of the article so it's missing what Ayre's intent is. HDMI bitstreamed should be pretty close (if not identical) from all decent BD players. But Ayre really wanted to provide a player that is aimed at people looking for a quality universal player that can connect via analogue. That's where it gets very grey and debatable. I applaud companies for trying to improve things...if there's no market these products will eventually whither anyway. I don't quite get why most ppl always immediately jump all over companies that offer higher cost items (Lexicon's Oppo-in-a-new-shell notwithstanding )

-H

[oppopioneer]

Originally Posted by HedgeHog

I don't quite get why most ppl always immediately jump all over companies that offer higher cost items (Lexicon's Oppo-in-a-new-shell notwithstanding )

-H

It's not about these companies offering these products, they're very much wanted, but the prices are too high when you take into account the cost performance ratio factor and not getting much back in return investment.

[HedgeHog]

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

It's not about these companies offering these products, they're very much wanted, but the prices are too high when you take into account the cost performance ratio factor and not getting much back in return investment.

I can safely guess that these companies are not using best cost/performance ratio as their impetus in designing/selling these products. If so, none of the high end companies will exist.

This is like me complaining that they charge too much for that damn Ferrari/Lambo/name-your-fave-exotic-car since I can get similar performance with my modded Supra! Anyway, if you are comparing video out only, then yes, it doesn't justify considering these components. But if ultimate audio quality is what one's after, then these do become available options for consumers (albeit ones with deeper pockets).

Emperically speaking, I just played around with my brand-spanky new Oppo BDP-95. Theoretically speaking, it makes no sense for me to replace my 1 yr old BDP-83 at double the cost when all I'm doing is using HDMI bitstream out. Well, I hear a difference and also see a difference. Whether it's perceived or is actually measurable doesn't matter. Personally, I've just justified the extra cost. To each their own.

Cheers,
-H

[oppopioneer]

To compare cars to electronics is sort of silly and not a good analogy. No one is taking into account a blind back to back test of multiple bd players with the Ayre where the tester has no idea which units are being played and swapped in and out. Until there is a comparison like that then any claims are not to be taken seriously and just marketing hype.

Again, Home Theater Mag tested multiple bd machines from $300 dollars to $2000 dollars including the Marantz's, Oppo, Pioneer Elite's and found no differences at all.

You're just trying to convince yourself that paying more is worth it for such a small return in investment.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

Again, Home Theater Mag tested multiple bd machines from $300 dollars to $2000 dollars including the Marantz's, Oppo, Pioneer Elite's and found no differences at all.

No differences on either picture or sound? I find that hard to believe because I had the BDP-83 and sold it thinking I was going to buy the BDP-95. Temporarily, I bought the Sony BDP-570 and never wound up buying the BDP-95, although I eventually probably will. But there is definitely a difference in the analog sound quality of the BDP-83 and Sony. The BDP-83 was far superior. As for picture, I detect a very slight quality difference, but without having them both here at the same time for comparison, I can't guarantee that difference.

[Almadacr]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

As for picture, I detect a very slight quality difference

I hope you are talking about DVD up-conversion !!!

[oppopioneer]

UltimateAVmag bd shootout test...

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/thomasnorton/010410BD2/

[HedgeHog]

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

To compare cars to electronics is sort of silly and not a good analogy. No one is taking into account a blind back to back test of multiple bd players with the Ayre where the tester has no idea which units are being played and swapped in and out. Until there is a comparison like that then any claims are not to be taken seriously and just marketing hype.

Again, Home Theater Mag tested multiple bd machines from $300 dollars to $2000 dollars including the Marantz's, Oppo, Pioneer Elite's and found no differences at all.

You're just trying to convince yourself that paying more is worth it for such a small return in investment.

I have no vested interested in the Ayre model...I am happy with my Oppo, thx.

DBT has been proven to useless. Hearing memory is too short and the mind can reinterpret based on perceptions. Having said that, the Ayre uses different topology for their audio (and proven ones at that) so I tend to believe them.

BTW, why is comparing audio to cars invalid? Aren't both based on technology and status? So if I stick with audio, why do ANY of the high end audio companies exist (and thrive)? Are there that many (rich) suckers in world? If so, well, THERE IS a market then.

WRT to your Home Theater Mag reference, I'll quote from their latest issue which reviewed the Ayre DX-5 (from the last paragraph): "In my opinion, the Ayre Acoustics DX-5 is destined to become a classic, and I recommend it to any videophile, audiophile, or computer audiophile who can afford it. This might well be the last great disc player we ever see and hear, so treat yourself." - Home Theater Mag (June 2011 [page 46]). I'm sure this will be void once the next great unit comes around.

Look, I'm not trying to push this on anyone; rather, I'm just saying that it's not the snake oil you wish it is. I personally don't understand this pervasive underdog mentality where everyone likes to bash a product baselessly because of its price. If the reviews prove otherwise then slam away.

[oppopioneer]

Originally Posted by HedgeHog

WRT to your Home Theater Mag reference, I'll quote from their latest issue which reviewed the Ayre DX-5 (from the last paragraph): "In my opinion, the Ayre Acoustics DX-5 is destined to become a classic, and I recommend it to any videophile, audiophile, or computer audiophile who can afford it. This might well be the last great disc player we ever see and hear, so treat yourself." - Home Theater Mag (June 2011 [page 46]). I'm sure this will be void once the next great unit comes around.

In the review you just posted above from Home Theater Mag, did they compare it to any other player in a back to back comparison? Every magazine and website that tests just one individual product for a review usually has positive things to say about it so the quote above isn't a good reference and gauge on whether or not the Ayre's performance is worth the price tag with regards of the performance cost ratio factor.

When it comes to bd performance in BQ there is really no difference in bd players, bd is bd, but what makes bd players stand out from others is their dvd upconversation and analoge SQ but that too is minimal when you should have a good reciever hooked up doing the work. With the introduction of HDMI the margins get even narrower between bd players.

[HedgeHog]

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

In the review you just posted above from Home Theater Mag, did they compare it to any other player in a back to back comparison? Every magazine and website that tests just one individual product for a review usually has positive things to say about it so the quote above isn't a good reference and gauge on whether or not the Ayre's performance is worth the price tag with regards of the performance cost ratio factor.

When it comes to bd performance in BQ there is really no difference in bd players, bd is bd, but what makes bd players stand out from others is their dvd upconversation and analoge SQ but that too is minimal when you should have a good reciever hooked up doing the work. With the introduction of HDMI the margins get even narrower between bd players.

Ok...now I am positive you like to post to read your own writing. LOL.

Please, please, please stay with me. The BD performance should be the same, if not very similar due to identical video processing. HDMI or not, the video still gets processed unless your SSP has video processing of its own, iirc. We're not talking about HDMI audio out here. Having said that, they never claim any distinction with video quality for this product. It is for improving audio.

Now with your insistence on test multiple equipment, it's not very typical to do shootout with magazines. Even so, as mentioned, subject evaluations are tough even with the golden-ear set. However, objective measurements do not require all equipment on hand to compare.

Stay with your surgex thread....you do better there.