Ayre Acoustics DX-5 Universal Blu-ray player (Top of the line in picture and sound)

[Almadacr]

Originally Posted by HedgeHog

I think you completely miss the point of the Ayre. It's not to compete in the typical BD player market...even they claim that's why the Oppo's guts were left in tact. It's meant to be a great universal player that also plays vids well.

So you have any reason to spend that amount of money ???

[oppopioneer]

One thing is clear, that with the introduction of HDMI and bluray the differences between electronic companies in bd performance either doesn't exist for 98% of the companies or any difference is so little. You have to take into account the whole "performance cost ratio factor" and is spending thousands upon thousands of dollars on a bd player that offers no improvements in PQ worth it?

[HedgeHog]

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

One thing is clear, that with the introduction of HDMI and bluray the differences between electronic companies in bd performance either doesn't exist for 98% of the companies or any difference is so little. You have to take into account the whole "performance cost ratio factor" and is spending thousands upon thousands of dollars on a bd player that offers no improvements in PQ worth it?

Unfortunately, the OP only posted a snippet of the article so it's missing what Ayre's intent is. HDMI bitstreamed should be pretty close (if not identical) from all decent BD players. But Ayre really wanted to provide a player that is aimed at people looking for a quality universal player that can connect via analogue. That's where it gets very grey and debatable. I applaud companies for trying to improve things...if there's no market these products will eventually whither anyway. I don't quite get why most ppl always immediately jump all over companies that offer higher cost items (Lexicon's Oppo-in-a-new-shell notwithstanding )

-H

[oppopioneer]

Originally Posted by HedgeHog

I don't quite get why most ppl always immediately jump all over companies that offer higher cost items (Lexicon's Oppo-in-a-new-shell notwithstanding )

-H

It's not about these companies offering these products, they're very much wanted, but the prices are too high when you take into account the cost performance ratio factor and not getting much back in return investment.

[HedgeHog]

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

It's not about these companies offering these products, they're very much wanted, but the prices are too high when you take into account the cost performance ratio factor and not getting much back in return investment.

I can safely guess that these companies are not using best cost/performance ratio as their impetus in designing/selling these products. If so, none of the high end companies will exist.

This is like me complaining that they charge too much for that damn Ferrari/Lambo/name-your-fave-exotic-car since I can get similar performance with my modded Supra! Anyway, if you are comparing video out only, then yes, it doesn't justify considering these components. But if ultimate audio quality is what one's after, then these do become available options for consumers (albeit ones with deeper pockets).

Emperically speaking, I just played around with my brand-spanky new Oppo BDP-95. Theoretically speaking, it makes no sense for me to replace my 1 yr old BDP-83 at double the cost when all I'm doing is using HDMI bitstream out. Well, I hear a difference and also see a difference. Whether it's perceived or is actually measurable doesn't matter. Personally, I've just justified the extra cost. To each their own.

Cheers,
-H

[oppopioneer]

To compare cars to electronics is sort of silly and not a good analogy. No one is taking into account a blind back to back test of multiple bd players with the Ayre where the tester has no idea which units are being played and swapped in and out. Until there is a comparison like that then any claims are not to be taken seriously and just marketing hype.

Again, Home Theater Mag tested multiple bd machines from $300 dollars to $2000 dollars including the Marantz's, Oppo, Pioneer Elite's and found no differences at all.

You're just trying to convince yourself that paying more is worth it for such a small return in investment.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

Again, Home Theater Mag tested multiple bd machines from $300 dollars to $2000 dollars including the Marantz's, Oppo, Pioneer Elite's and found no differences at all.

No differences on either picture or sound? I find that hard to believe because I had the BDP-83 and sold it thinking I was going to buy the BDP-95. Temporarily, I bought the Sony BDP-570 and never wound up buying the BDP-95, although I eventually probably will. But there is definitely a difference in the analog sound quality of the BDP-83 and Sony. The BDP-83 was far superior. As for picture, I detect a very slight quality difference, but without having them both here at the same time for comparison, I can't guarantee that difference.

[HedgeHog]

Originally Posted by oppopioneer

To compare cars to electronics is sort of silly and not a good analogy. No one is taking into account a blind back to back test of multiple bd players with the Ayre where the tester has no idea which units are being played and swapped in and out. Until there is a comparison like that then any claims are not to be taken seriously and just marketing hype.

Again, Home Theater Mag tested multiple bd machines from $300 dollars to $2000 dollars including the Marantz's, Oppo, Pioneer Elite's and found no differences at all.

You're just trying to convince yourself that paying more is worth it for such a small return in investment.

I have no vested interested in the Ayre model...I am happy with my Oppo, thx.

DBT has been proven to useless. Hearing memory is too short and the mind can reinterpret based on perceptions. Having said that, the Ayre uses different topology for their audio (and proven ones at that) so I tend to believe them.

BTW, why is comparing audio to cars invalid? Aren't both based on technology and status? So if I stick with audio, why do ANY of the high end audio companies exist (and thrive)? Are there that many (rich) suckers in world? If so, well, THERE IS a market then.

WRT to your Home Theater Mag reference, I'll quote from their latest issue which reviewed the Ayre DX-5 (from the last paragraph): "In my opinion, the Ayre Acoustics DX-5 is destined to become a classic, and I recommend it to any videophile, audiophile, or computer audiophile who can afford it. This might well be the last great disc player we ever see and hear, so treat yourself." - Home Theater Mag (June 2011 [page 46]). I'm sure this will be void once the next great unit comes around.

Look, I'm not trying to push this on anyone; rather, I'm just saying that it's not the snake oil you wish it is. I personally don't understand this pervasive underdog mentality where everyone likes to bash a product baselessly because of its price. If the reviews prove otherwise then slam away.

[HedgeHog]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

As is the OPPO.

Sometimes great design is great design for design's sake. I don't know whether the Ayre results in better audio and picture. If it does, then it's worth the money to those who can afford that luxury. But those "problems" that they purport to fix may not actually be problems in the real world. In other words, do those design flaws cause any difference in the audio and video? Ayre claims they do. I would guess (but only guess) that they don't. Time will tell what the reality is.

The Oppo is a great unit...I just got the 95 myself. But the Ayre has a completely different analogue stage. For some, music through the analog stage is better than via digital. The filter added is unique to Ayre and is similar but supposedly superior to their well-rated DAC. I haven't heard it but I won't doubt that it is very good based on history of their products.

Here's an interview with a senior Oppo tech that even states analog is preferred over HDMI due to HDMI's inherent problems. http://www.htguys.com/news/2011/5/9/...ial-plain.html

Originally Posted by Almadacr

So you have any reason to spend that amount of money ???

Reason? Sure, bravado, label, uniqueness, blending with other Ayre products.... Is it worth it? Probably not, but high end gear is never "worth" it. I probably could be enjoying music/movies as much with less expensive gear than ones that I have accrued.

In fact, the MSB Tech version (based on the Oppo BDP-95) costs even more! http://www.msbtech.com/products/univ...e=platinumHome


Remember, Ayre never claimed to be superior in video since it is exactly the same as the 83. Ayre's targeted customers are these so called "audiophiles".

Cheers,
-H