Recent news about format unification talks

[erdega79]

http://www.eet.com/news/latest/showA...leID=160901475

PARIS — Opposing camps in the high-definition disk format battle are close to a compromise on key components of their competing standards based on blue laser technology.
According to sources close to the DVD Forum and the Blu-ray Disc Association, the groups are on the verge of agreeing on a higher-level protocol and interactive layers as well as the physical formats of the incompatible standards.

A compromise would allow Hollywood studios to produce a single title in one HD format and compile it later for either platform. Such a move also means consumer electronics manufacturers would have to spend less time developing dual-format software and hardware for new HD DVD players.

Sony Corp. is promoting its Blu-ray format with Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Pioneer and others. Toshiba Corp. and NEC Corp. are the key proponents of HD DVD format.

Asked at a Sony press event this week why Blu-ray disk players are not ready, senior manager Tomihiro Nakagawa said the "physical format is already determined, but the interactive layer for Blu-ray ROM is not done." Nakagawa said the group is planning to include an interactive layer that would, for example, allow the downloading of subtitles in different languages.

The Blu-ray group is apparently pushing for use of the Java-based Multimedia Home Platform — an API now used in European interactive digital TV set tops as well as U.S. cable set tops — in its new players. By contrast, the DVD Forum is reportedly promoting a derivative of the Microsoft-developed MSTV, which among other languages uses HTML, ECMAScript and the W3C markup language, but not Java.

The HD DVD debate is a replay of an earlier clash over an an API for an interactive digital TV set-top spec — where one side promoted Sun Microsystems' Java language while the other backed Microsoft's MSTV.

Discussions are far from over, but industry sources said Blu-ray group members have been attending marathon meetings this week at the studios of Blu-ray backer Disney. The DVD Forum is also expected to meet soon at the offices of member Time Warner Inc.

Sony's Nakagawa said the debate over software for the Blu-ray disk player is "in the home stretch."

Hollywood remains split over the competing standards. Paramount, Universal and Warner Bros. are siding with the DVD Forum while Walt Disney Co., Sony Pictures and MGM support the Blu-ray spec.

[zombie]

Great article! I didn't think there was any real hope of a merge but I'm glad to read that things look a lot more optomistic right now. Now's the time to do it before both formats launch and the majority of consumers are confused as to why certain discs won't work with certain players. Someone mentioned using the HD-DVD name on Blu-ray discs since it includes the DVD name which is very familiar to consumers. I don't know if that really will happen but it sounds nice.

[Marwin]

Recent updates on the possible unification of the two formats.

Reuters
Sony, Toshiba Mull Unified Format to Avoid DVD War (Apr 21, 2005)
Sony, Toshiba Discuss Single DVD Standard (Apr 20, 2005)

Associated Press
Sony, Toshiba seek unified DVD format (Apr 21, 2005)
Sony: Open to talks with rivals (Apr 20, 2005)

[georgir]

I don't get this... HOW can these standards be unified?
They can always make them use the same codecs and copyprotection, but that's pretty much it. Physically the two standards will always be different, it's to late to be changing them or inventing a hybrid in my oppinion. Dumping one of them will never be accepted by both camps, and isn't a real unifying too.

I know that there can be produced disks having both a HD-DVD layer and Blu-ray layer, as they are at different depths. I guess even multiple layers of each can be stacked... but that doesn't have much to do with actually unifying the standards. Players are more important, not disks.

I imagine that if they agree that ALL players should support BOTH types of disks (i.e. be combo devices that are bound to come out sooner or later anyway) in order to get licenses, it can be viewed as a kind of unification. The movie publishers can stick with producing HD-DVD disks until they need higher capacity and/or are able to retool for blu-ray, the PC users will probably use Blu-ray disks for data and backup, etc, but both'll be guaranteed to work in all readers out there.

Pretty much the only benefit of HD-DVD is the lower cost for retooling production lines, and *maybe* lower cost for the discs, right?

[thunderhawk]

oh great...

a similar issue like the -RW/+RW for DVD @ the moment...

we were really waiting for that to come :?


If there is one solution... That is a extremis..
then drop both formats and create a superior one to Blu-ray

Pff dunno

[Marwin]

Originally Posted by georgir

I don't get this... HOW can these standards be unified?

"Sony is said to have proposed using Blu-ray's disc structure and HD DVD software technology. Toshiba has presented the idea of using HD DVD's disc structure, which is closer to that of current DVDs, and employing Sony's multi-layer data-recording technology, the report said."

I've heard that Sony and Panasonic aren't willing to give up on the 0.1mm physical format, so the latter solution doesn't sound like it could happen. Toshiba on the other hand are said to be split, some are willing to accept the 0.1mm physical format while others want to fight for their own 0.6mm. I guess it will still be a while before we know how this turns out.

[Marwin]

Yet another update on the possible unification of the two formats.

Reuters
DVD format talks lean to Sony technology-source (May 10, 2005)

[erdega79]

Toshiba is desperate
Toshiba expands HD-DVD capacity to 45GB

Toshiba Denies Blu-Ray Victory

[James Morrow]

... especially as TDK demonstrated 100GB quad-layer single-sided blu-ray over a year ago, with a clear pathway to 200GB and beyond ... ops:

[zombie]

Originally Posted by erdega79

Toshiba is desperate

That statement says it all. All Toshiba is doing is trying to get a little more dough out of the "merger."

[Gorkab]

Originally Posted by n2blu

That statement says it all. All Toshiba is doing is trying to get a little more dough out of the "merger."

Yeah it's so stupid... One stripe on this three layered disc will be definitly more dangerous than one on a DVD... Who said that the cartridge wasn't good ???

[Marwin]

Reuters
Toshiba says unified DVD format difficult -report (May 16, 2005)

[zombie]

Sadly, the merger of Blu-ray and HD-DVD isn't happening: http://www.geekinformed.com/content/view/190/2

[Marwin]

Just because they're stalled doesn't mean it won't happen, here's another update.

Reuters
Sony, Toshiba Presidents to Meet on New DVD Format (May 17, 2005)

[zombie]

I won't be holding my breath. I believe that ship has sailed.

[Marwin]

Reuters
Matsushita: no meeting planned for unified DVD format (May 19, 2005)
Matsushita insists Toshiba yield on DVD format (May 19, 2005)

[zombie]

Originally Posted by Marwin

[b]Matsushita insists Toshiba yield on DVD format (May 19, 2005)

From said article:

"The talks continue, they have not collapsed," Nakamura told a group of reporters at a get-together of industry executives in Tokyo. "But Matsushita and Sony have not changed their stance. We are waiting for Toshiba's decision."

I'd say this makes it pretty clear that any chance of a merger isn't going to happen unless Toshiba gives up and joins Sony as is. Of course we'd all like to see that happen but as with any large company, these guys have serious money invested and overblown egos. Will Toshiba make the right decision and join the BDA? It'd be better financially than a total failure of HD-DVD if they continue to go it alone.

[erdega79]

the merger of formats is unlikely due to physical issues (protective layer depth) so the sides are discussing aggreeing to a single format so the other side gets the compensation

[zombie]

Originally Posted by erdega79

the merger of formats is unlikely due to physical issues (protective layer depth) so the sides are discussing aggreeing to a single format so the other side gets the compensation

Yeah, I use the term "merger" lightly. It's clear you can't really merge BD and HD-DVD because they are entirely different concepts.

[ca1ore]

I suppose it should not surprise me ...

Once again a format war looms and once agin the 'antagonists' don't get it!

A FORMAT WAR IS BAD FOR EVERYONE ... ESPECIALLY THE CONSUMER.

You would think that Sony, of all companies, would understand this: SACD is essentially a dead format, in lage part due to format confusion/conflict with DVD-A (which is also essentially dead). Any winners here?

We must have a unified HD optical disc format - otherwise I really fear that Blu-Ray and HDDVD will kill each other off just as SACD and DVD-A are doing in HiRez audio.

And those who say that universal players will bridge the divide are niave! History shows that it takes a few years to get acceptable universal players onto the market, by which time the damage from a format war is largely done!

If I were the major studios I would INSIST on a unified format, or I wouldn't play.

Sincerely!

Disgusted in CT (aka Simon)