Dumb HT DIY Projector Question

[dolphinc]

Hi All,

Tomorrow I will be installing an Epson HD Projector and a 106' grey Elite Screens screen. Should I install the projector first or the screen? First time so I know it's a dumb question but I want to do it correctly. Thanks for any info.

[Grevlin]

I would install the projector first. Measure the room, find where you want the image centered. I believe most projectors lose quality with left/right shift. You want that centered.

After the projector is up- throw up an image and mask off the corners so you know where to mount the screen. Try to avoid mounting the screen too high, save your neck. I would shoot for as close to midpoint @ eye level as possible which usually will mean as low as possible with gear below it.

<-- I have a few pics that might help.

[Twitch9]

I have to disagree the screen should be first , it's harder to move a screen around than it is a projector, get the screen where you want it then find the correct position for the projector, Your projector will have some fine tuning in the controls to shift the image on the screen. But both ways would work, if your limited on where the screen can go then screen first projector second.

[Hirtenberger]

Hang the screen first and then install the projector mount. Make sure the center of the lens is centered on the screen. If your off you will have a keystone issue.

[Grevlin]

My number one priority was getting the projector mount screws firmly in the studs in the ceiling. Your screen was maybe 4 or $500, but your Epson was $2000 to $3000 plus or minus? I was able to mount the projector and worry about the screen after- without trying to force the placement of the projector.

Honestly, just google "Projector placement" and read through your proj manual for guidelines on image adjustment.

[Anthony P]

agree with most, screen first projector second. The screen needs to be where it will be (based on the room) and the picture size will be determined by the screen size. So you put the screen first and then use the projector to determine the right location. If you don't care about PQ then you can take Grevlin's advice, and put the projector first and then the screen and then used digital key stoning, digital picture shift.... and screw up the image to put it on the screen, but was that why you bought a projector in the first place?

[Grevlin]

I'm going to disagree with everyone who said put screen first. If you want to keep the horizontal shift centered so you don't lose pq-- how are you going to measure out the EXACT spot to mount the projector AFTER the screen is mounted??

Measure to one wall, transfer the measurement to the ceiling and mount?! Is your room PERFECTLY square? It would be a first in construction history.

If you leave the projectors horizontal shift centered and mount it after measuring things out, you will have an image on the front wall from which to mark and mount your screen.

This is how I installed my set, and I couldn't imagine causing myself the grief of doing it the other way.

And I would say its far harder to move a projector then move a screen- the screws need to be in TIGHT unless you want the projector shaking around or worse: nose diving onto the floor. You can just re-drill holes for screen mounts.

I'm not trying to get everyone fired up, I just really don't see the logic of screen first.

[vega2K]

I think all of you have valid points. Before I installed either the projector or the screen, I measured everything and drew it on graph paper (this is my normal mode of operation) - throw distance, center line, stud locations/distance, mount location, distance of projector lens from ceiling with mount on, adjustment capability of projector/screen, etc.. When it came to installing them, I knew exactly where everything had to go and had no room for doubt and which came first didn't matter. It sounds worse than it was because it may have taken about an hour of planning but zero errors. Good luck.

[Grevlin]

Originally Posted by vega2K

I think all of you have valid points. Before I installed either the projector or the screen, I measured everything and drew it on graph paper (this is my normal mode of operation) - throw distance, center line, stud locations/distance, mount location, distance of projector lens from ceiling with mount on, adjustment capability of projector/screen, etc.. When it came to installing them, I knew exactly where everything had to go and had no room for doubt and which came first didn't matter. It sounds worse than it was because it may have taken about an hour of planning but zero errors. Good luck.

Well said.

I painted my screen, so I had to have the image up to mask the outline. You can get the job done either way. The difference might be a few extra holes in the wall, or end-of-the-world worse: loss in PQ...

Vega: NICE fiber-optic ceiling panel, amazing display of detail and patience.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Grevlin

I'm not trying to get everyone fired up, I just really don't see the logic of screen first.

the issue is that you are thinking it backwards. You said in your previous post that just use key stoning and image shift, now you are assuming just put the screen in the wrong place. You want the image to be in the right place and look right, if it is not centred to the seating then it is not right. You are assuming that installing the projector first and somehow everything else will be magically perfect. But what if (and I have seen this before at some one else’s place) you place it too far (but in his defence he replaced an old projector and he thought the throw distances would work) and the image is too big for the screen, where it is mounted? What if it is off centred from the seating and so needs to be a few inches to the side….. What you do is place the screen first, then you know exactly where the image needs to be, then you turn on the projector and find out exactly where it needs to be for the image to be the right size, centred on screen and the right height. Then you place the mount so that the projector can be located at the exact right place in all three dimentions. Now if someone is a pro, has a bit of lee-way (for example all projectors have an analogue zoom range) and through years and installs has the eye for it, then I guess you can do the opposite. But for newbs, the screen first and projector second can help against any mistakes in the calculations.

[Grevlin]

Originally Posted by Grevlin

I would install the projector first. Measure the room, find where you want the image centered. I believe most projectors lose quality with left/right shift. You want that centered.

<-- I have a few pics that might help.

That's my recommendation. Good luck.

[vega2K]

Originally Posted by Grevlin

Well said.

I painted my screen, so I had to have the image up to mask the outline. You can get the job done either way. The difference might be a few extra holes in the wall, or end-of-the-world worse: loss in PQ...

Vega: NICE fiber-optic ceiling panel, amazing display of detail and patience.

Thanks for the compliment!

Your case was truly "do or die". Paint the screen in the wrong place and your dead! So in your case installing the Projector was the best way to go. With the projector up, you project image, mark-off the image on the wall, then build/paint the screen.

I had various other obstacles as well (such as being at the limits of the minimum throw distance of my projector, dual-display set-up with duct-work to contend with, ceiling star panel dropping from the ceiling, etc.) which is why planning, measuring, then re-measuring, then drawing it out was so important in my case.

But, one thing that I found to be as important if not more important than what you install first was the type of projector mount you use. I found many mounts which were very limiting in how you could adjust the projector. Some mounts forced you to use keystone adjustment if you were not at dead center. This is why I purchased a very flexibile mount (up/down/left/right/in/out). I don't see how one could have a "perfect" image without the flexibility.

Here's the highly recommended mount I purchased: http://www.vanptc.com/products16-21-10/Universal12Inch

[Grevlin]

Hey Vega,

Do you know if they sell those fiber-optic star displays ready-to-hang? With where they usually go, they should build some sound absorption into them...

[drago3451]

I had no choice as to what order I went with. The screen just fit in the spot that I have with maybe a half inch on each side for clearance. I then centered my lens as best I could.

[vega2K]

Originally Posted by Grevlin

Hey Vega,

Do you know if they sell those fiber-optic star displays ready-to-hang? With where they usually go, they should build some sound absorption into them...

Grevlin,

I do know that they sell starceiling panels with the fibers already in them and include an illuminator and are considered acoustic panels. They come in sets of 4, 6 or 8. Check them out here: http://www.starceiling123.com/index....-products.html

It says you install them on pre-existing drop ceiling grids, but I'm sure someone as resourceful as you can manage without.

The one I made has ridgid insulation as it's guts, so it does provide sound absorption. In fact, I had considered building smaller versions to place on the walls, but I thought it would be overkill for me.

[Grevlin]

Ouch! The stuff is pricey... I would have to see one in action before going into planning stages.

Though I have a ceiling fan pre-wire dead center, and a 4x4 or 6x6 would be very nice.

[Beta Man]

Originally Posted by Grevlin

Ouch! The stuff is pricey... I would have to see one in action before going into planning stages.

Though I have a ceiling fan pre-wire dead center, and a 4x4 or 6x6 would be very nice.

same here..... I removed my ceiling fan, capped it, and painted over it.... but had thought of using the wiring for something like this, but the cost to coolness ratio wasn't worth it for me...... Maybe I'll just hang up a disco ball

[vega2K]

Originally Posted by Grevlin

Ouch! The stuff is pricey... I would have to see one in action before going into planning stages.

Though I have a ceiling fan pre-wire dead center, and a 4x4 or 6x6 would be very nice.

Yes they are very expensive, which was the main reason I built my own. But keep in mind, as I understand, a 4x4 kit means you get 4 separate 2'x2' panels with an illuminator. They do seem to sell single panels for about $60 per panel but minimum purchase is two and it does not include the illuminator.

Here's an interesting video on the subject, there's a lot more samples on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve_BRAXwFdI

[SeanMF]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

the issue is that you are thinking it backwards. You said in your previous post that just use key stoning and image shift, now you are assuming just put the screen in the wrong place. You want the image to be in the right place and look right, if it is not centred to the seating then it is not right. You are assuming that installing the projector first and somehow everything else will be magically perfect. But what if (and I have seen this before at some one else’s place) you place it too far (but in his defence he replaced an old projector and he thought the throw distances would work) and the image is too big for the screen, where it is mounted? What if it is off centred from the seating and so needs to be a few inches to the side….. What you do is place the screen first, then you know exactly where the image needs to be, then you turn on the projector and find out exactly where it needs to be for the image to be the right size, centred on screen and the right height. Then you place the mount so that the projector can be located at the exact right place in all three dimentions. Now if someone is a pro, has a bit of lee-way (for example all projectors have an analogue zoom range) and through years and installs has the eye for it, then I guess you can do the opposite. But for newbs, the screen first and projector second can help against any mistakes in the calculations.

This noob on projectors put the screen up first. My screen fit in one spot and one spot only as it maybe left like an inch of leverage left/right. I can put the projector anywhere on the back wall with a shelf or ceiling mount. Also my friend use to do ht installs and will be helping me so I'm not concerned.