Oppo BD-83 bass management flaw - Blu-ray Forum

sbjork · 08-14-2009, 01:43 AM

I have had an issue with my BD-83 since I bought it, and after spending some time with Oppo via telephone, it appears that there is a flaw with either their firmware or hardware. While it will affect a relatively minor number of users, it will be a major problem for those users, so I thought that I would give you all a heads-up about it.

The problem will affect those who are using the analogue outputs and who do not have a standalone subwoofer. If you turn the subwoofer "off" in the setup menu, the LFE channel should be mixed into the main channels. The player is not doing this -- you will simply lose the LFE channel altogether. They were able to replicate this issue today at the Oppo facility, so the problem is not with my unit but rather with the player itself.

Worse, they tried rolling back to the past couple of firmware updates to see if it was something that was somehow messed up with the current firmware, and they all have the same problem. Oppo told me that they are going to have their engineers work with the decoder manufacturers to see if it is something that can be fixed in the firmware, or if it is a limitation with the hardware.

An obvious workaround for people who have powered towers is to use the line-level LFE output of the Oppo and hook it into the line-level inputs on the subwoofer section of your speakers. However, in my case, therein lies the rub.

I have an older Krell processor (Showcase) that lacks HDMI inputs, so having a player with internal HD audio decoding and analogue outputs is critical for me. I also have Vandersteen Quatro speakers, which have built-in powered subwoofers that must be hooked up speaker-level (there are no line-level inputs.) So right now there is nothing that I can do to get the LFE working for TrueHD and DTS-MA. I am using the digital outs for regular Dolby Digital and DTS lossy, and my Krell downmixes the LFE just fine. But right now, I hae to choose between HD audio or LFE. Not a good choice. (And no, I just bought the Quatros, so I am not upgrading the Krell right now!)

I will keep you posted as Oppo gives me more information. Like I said, this problem will affect a relatively small number of users, but it is a huge problem for us! For those of you who are using the analogue outputs and do not have a standalone subwoofer, you should check this out immediately.

I will say this for Oppo: their customer service and dedication to improving their product is excellent. I just hope that they can fix this!

solarrdadd · 08-14-2009, 02:17 AM

so far, i think you are alone in this; on this forum that is. or at least your the very first to bring it up. i do hope this is something that can be resolved. though, i must say, i'm surprised this was something that wasn't caught by them. they do have a dedicated stereo analog output. I think however, you are one of the first i've heard of that doesn't have a subwoofer in a 5 channel setup; there's no seperate .1 I am aware some folks have a stereo only setup so i wonder how they are dealing with this. Oh yeah, does this only happen when you are using 5 channels of the 5.1 channels or will it also happen when using the dedicated stereo 2 channel only output? in any case i suspect that they can do something about it. well, at least you got to be first to bring something up, so far, guess that's gotta count for something!

Here's to Oppo resolving your/the issue in a timely fashion!

gonk · 08-14-2009, 03:55 AM

Good find - I don't recall any of the beta testers running 5.0 setups, so it's quite possible that the combination of analog output and no sub was not looked at closely. It sounds like they're on the case. Hopefully they'll have a fix for you in the near future.

sbjork · 08-14-2009, 10:06 AM

Given the number of "powered towers" out there, I would be surprised if one the the testers was not using them. It may be that they all had the subs in their towers hooked up line-level, but since that requires an extra cable I would still be surprised if someone did not have the same general setup as I do. (The difference with my speakers is that I have no choice but to hook them up this way.) It is entirely possible that users with this setup simply did not catch it. If you are watching a movie with plenty of bass in the main channels (Master and Commander is an example) you may not notice that you are missing anything. It all depends how agressively the mixer for a given movie steered low bass into the .1 channel.

I could experiment with the other downmix settings to see if the LFE is mixed properly with a 2.0 setup, but I am pretty sure that the results would be the same. Again, you will not be missing any low bass from the main channels, you will just be missing the LFE.

By the way, if anyone else has caught this problem, they did not contact Oppo about it . . .

sbjork · 09-04-2009, 10:06 PM

If anyone is interested, I just got off the phone with Oppo and they did determine that the problem is in the last few firmware updates, not the decoder. They are working on a fix, but it may take as long as a month.

X400 · 09-04-2009, 10:40 PM

wow oppo customer service sounds great

glad you will be getting a resolution soon

BIslander · 09-05-2009, 12:05 AM

The Panasonic players also discard LFE when the sub is set to None. That's been a known issue since the BD55 came out. But, with Panasonic, there's no indication that it will be fixed.

sbjork · 09-05-2009, 03:10 PM

Well, I will post when (and hopefully not if) I get my "happy ending"!

08-14-2009, 01:43 AM	#1
sbjork Active Member Member since:Oct 2008	Oppo BD-83 bass management flaw I have had an issue with my BD-83 since I bought it, and after spending some time with Oppo via telephone, it appears that there is a flaw with either their firmware or hardware. While it will affect a relatively minor number of users, it will be a major problem for those users, so I thought that I would give you all a heads-up about it. The problem will affect those who are using the analogue outputs and who do not have a standalone subwoofer. If you turn the subwoofer "off" in the setup menu, the LFE channel should be mixed into the main channels. The player is not doing this -- you will simply lose the LFE channel altogether. They were able to replicate this issue today at the Oppo facility, so the problem is not with my unit but rather with the player itself. Worse, they tried rolling back to the past couple of firmware updates to see if it was something that was somehow messed up with the current firmware, and they all have the same problem. Oppo told me that they are going to have their engineers work with the decoder manufacturers to see if it is something that can be fixed in the firmware, or if it is a limitation with the hardware. An obvious workaround for people who have powered towers is to use the line-level LFE output of the Oppo and hook it into the line-level inputs on the subwoofer section of your speakers. However, in my case, therein lies the rub. I have an older Krell processor (Showcase) that lacks HDMI inputs, so having a player with internal HD audio decoding and analogue outputs is critical for me. I also have Vandersteen Quatro speakers, which have built-in powered subwoofers that must be hooked up speaker-level (there are no line-level inputs.) So right now there is nothing that I can do to get the LFE working for TrueHD and DTS-MA. I am using the digital outs for regular Dolby Digital and DTS lossy, and my Krell downmixes the LFE just fine. But right now, I hae to choose between HD audio or LFE. Not a good choice. (And no, I just bought the Quatros, so I am not upgrading the Krell right now!) I will keep you posted as Oppo gives me more information. Like I said, this problem will affect a relatively small number of users, but it is a huge problem for us! For those of you who are using the analogue outputs and do not have a standalone subwoofer, you should check this out immediately. I will say this for Oppo: their customer service and dedication to improving their product is excellent. I just hope that they can fix this!

08-14-2009, 10:06 AM	#4
sbjork Active Member Member since:Oct 2008	Given the number of "powered towers" out there, I would be surprised if one the the testers was not using them. It may be that they all had the subs in their towers hooked up line-level, but since that requires an extra cable I would still be surprised if someone did not have the same general setup as I do. (The difference with my speakers is that I have no choice but to hook them up this way.) It is entirely possible that users with this setup simply did not catch it. If you are watching a movie with plenty of bass in the main channels (Master and Commander is an example) you may not notice that you are missing anything. It all depends how agressively the mixer for a given movie steered low bass into the .1 channel. I could experiment with the other downmix settings to see if the LFE is mixed properly with a 2.0 setup, but I am pretty sure that the results would be the same. Again, you will not be missing any low bass from the main channels, you will just be missing the LFE. By the way, if anyone else has caught this problem, they did not contact Oppo about it . . . Last edited by sbjork; 08-14-2009 at 01:10 PM.

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08-14-2009, 02:17 AM	#2
solarrdadd Blu-ray Prince Top ranked HT gallery Member since:Jul 2008 Location:Virginia Home Theater Gallery:255 4K collection:209 Blu-ray collection:1344 DVD collection:4 Blu-ray reviews: 42 Trading Score:316	so far, i think you are alone in this; on this forum that is. or at least your the very first to bring it up. i do hope this is something that can be resolved. though, i must say, i'm surprised this was something that wasn't caught by them. they do have a dedicated stereo analog output. I think however, you are one of the first i've heard of that doesn't have a subwoofer in a 5 channel setup; there's no seperate .1 I am aware some folks have a stereo only setup so i wonder how they are dealing with this. Oh yeah, does this only happen when you are using 5 channels of the 5.1 channels or will it also happen when using the dedicated stereo 2 channel only output? in any case i suspect that they can do something about it. well, at least you got to be first to bring something up, so far, guess that's gotta count for something! Here's to Oppo resolving your/the issue in a timely fashion!

08-14-2009, 03:55 AM	#3
gonk Senior Member Member since:Mar 2009 Location:Memphis, TN Blu-ray collection:111	Good find - I don't recall any of the beta testers running 5.0 setups, so it's quite possible that the combination of analog output and no sub was not looked at closely. It sounds like they're on the case. Hopefully they'll have a fix for you in the near future.

09-04-2009, 10:06 PM	#5
sbjork Active Member Member since:Oct 2008	If anyone is interested, I just got off the phone with Oppo and they did determine that the problem is in the last few firmware updates, not the decoder. They are working on a fix, but it may take as long as a month.

09-04-2009, 10:40 PM	#6
X400 Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Jul 2007 Location:Kent Blu-ray collection:328 Blu-ray reviews:41 Trading Score:23	wow oppo customer service sounds great glad you will be getting a resolution soon

09-05-2009, 12:05 AM	#7
BIslander Blu-ray Samurai Member since:Sep 2008 Location:Bainbridge Island, WA	The Panasonic players also discard LFE when the sub is set to None. That's been a known issue since the BD55 came out. But, with Panasonic, there's no indication that it will be fixed.

09-05-2009, 03:10 PM	#8
sbjork Active Member Member since:Oct 2008	Well, I will post when (and hopefully not if) I get my "happy ending"!

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