Toshiba's third generation HD DVD players not getting good press

[sbeney]

Just saw this at dvdreview.com. Seems Toshiba is cutting corners to make their players cheap. Blu-ray player's might be more expensive (but in my opinion, not by much, depending on the brand - another thing in our favour) but at least quality has not been compromised!

"Toshiba announces third generation HD-DVD players

"The ridiculous high definition format war rages on and today Toshiba of America announced three new HD-DVD players to hit retail stores in September. But don't get too excited just yet, the players are more of a let-down than an improvement, it seems. The HD-A3 is a low-end player that offers 720p output – which in our view doesn’t even qualify as high definition, really – for $299.99. Then there is the mid-level player HD-A30, offering 1080i video output for $399.99, followed by the high-end HD-A35 model which delivers 1080p output for $499.99. Woohoo!

"Frankly, I find it ridiculous that any company would not only release players with anything less than 1080p video output, but to turn this deficiency into pricing tiers is almost berating. Selling half-assed high definition players certainly won’t do the format any good, especially not if they are as overpriced as this. It will be interesting to see if Toshiba has finally gotten a grip on their boot times, a problem which a halfway decent software designer could have solved over a year ago."

[ussrelativity]

If that's the case, then I was right about saying "1080p or no deal."


I would prefer a link stating this, for clarification.

[dialog_gvf]

I'm curious how 8-bit encodings can make use of deep colour.

IF it could be used, the HDMI in the A35 could carry it.

Golly. It could also carry DSD from SACD couldn't it?

[gvortex7]

Actually the first post regarding this is a bit incorrect. The HD-A3 entry level player will output 1080i and both of the higher end models HD-A30 and HD-A35 will output 1080p.

See the link below:
http://www.dvdtown.com/news/press-re...d-players/4644

[ussrelativity]

Originally Posted by gvortex7

Actually the first post regarding this is a bit incorrect. The HD-A3 entry level player will output 1080i and both of the higher end models HD-A30 and HD-A35 will output 1080p.

See the link below:
http://www.dvdtown.com/news/press-re...d-players/4644

Thanks for the link. Toshiba shouldn't cost cut like that just to keep prices low.

[Deciazulado]

Well maybe when they hit $199 or $99 they will output 720 and 480 respectively

[tvted]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

I'm curious how 8-bit encodings can make use of deep colour.

IF it could be used, the HDMI in the A35 could carry it.

Golly. It could also carry DSD from SACD couldn't it?

Gary,

Not sure, as I've not followed this much, but I believe deep colour as its being used (xxyy) is in fact 8 bit but makes use of PC rather than RGB codes, i,e, <16 >235 which is outside of Studio level coding. Sudio optical formats are more like 7.5 bits.

Still doesn't take advantage of what was originally envisioned for NTSC colour space. (not 601 or 709)

ted

[dialog_gvf]

Originally Posted by tvted

Gary,

Not sure, as I've not followed this much, but I believe deep colour as its being used (xxyy) is in fact 8 bit but makes use of PC rather than RGB codes, i,e, <16 >235 which is outside of Studio level coding. Sudio optical formats are more like 7.5 bits.

That's wide gamut (xvYCC - or xv.Color as Sony calls it), which is different from deep colour. Wide gamut defines an extension to the normal YUV colour space to represent more colours in the same bits. It can be encoded in the normal YUV space, and is supposedly backward compatible with current decoders and displays, and so could theoretically be used for Blu-ray or HD DVD if some switch could be set to tell a compatible display to use it. AVCHD has native support for xvYCC. And HDMI 1.3 can carry the meta-tag for it.

Deep colour extends the bit-depth of the representation. So, with 10-bit you could have 1024 grey scale levels instead of <256 (if you include the BTB and WTW) eliminating contouring effects.

But, since neither Blu-ray or HD DVD allow >8-bit encodings, there doesn't seem to be much point for a Blu-ray or HD DVD player. Unless it did upconversion.

Gary

[bferr1]

The whole basis for the rant quoted in the OP is incorrect.

[tvted]

Originally Posted by dialog_gvf

That's wide gamut (xvYCC - or xv.Color as Sony calls it), which is different from deep colour. Wide gamut defines an extension to the normal YUV colour space to represent more colours in the same bits. It can be encoded in the normal YUV space, and is supposedly backward compatible with current decoders and displays, and so could theoretically be used for Blu-ray or HD DVD if some switch could be set to tell a compatible display to use it. AVCHD has native support for xvYCC. And HDMI 1.3 can carry the meta-tag for it.

Deep colour extends the bit-depth of the representation. So, with 10-bit you could have 1024 grey scale levels instead of <256 (if you include the BTB and WTW) eliminating contouring effects.

But, since neither Blu-ray or HD DVD allow >8-bit encodings, there doesn't seem to be much point for a Blu-ray or HD DVD player. Unless it did upconversion.

Gary

Thanks for clarifying my confusion - this stuff requires better terminology.

Per your above wide gamut is essentially PC RGB vs Studio levels as I was blathering on about earlier.

You are of course right about current HDM and >8bit. I doubt we will see this as anything other than marketing as it requires a new format def. T'would be nice to see the 10 bit capabilities that the original NTSC colourspace is capable of.

ted

[Deciazulado]

so in summary, deep color is higher bit depth color,
xYvv (or whatever) color is wider gamut color (similar to the original NTSC's wider color space)

Originally Posted by tvted

Sudio optical formats are more like 7.5 bits.

7.78 bits